[D] Zerg Inject Method Poll

On March 16 2012 07:42 Innovation wrote:
never thought about using hold position in combination with backspace style...I'll try that out.

usually get about 5 queens by 3 base against anything but zerg

1 to always spread creep

1 preemptively walk to 4th while spreading creep

5 also keeps me safe via either voidray or banshee harass.

On March 16 2012 08:03 Hairy wrote:
/sigh
YET ANOTHER larvae inject thread that successfully manages to ignore probably the most efficient method (injecting using saved camera locations to bounce between locations).

On March 16 2012 08:06 lhr0909 wrote:



Yes I did, at least for the hatch navigation part.
It is a variation from the hardcore style I mentioned above.
Got you covered bro.

On March 16 2012 08:11 Hairy wrote:

Not really. The 'hardcore' method does not describe the above method, and fails to take into account you can keybind all your queens and [shift+inject] for extremely fast and reliable injects. Anyone reading your description assumes you must manually select queens, which is laborious.

On March 16 2012 08:10 kaluro wrote:
I use:

- Backspace inject
- One hotkey for all hatcheries
- base camera to move while injecting

Also, TLO uses backspace injection style.

On March 16 2012 07:50 darkscream wrote:
I do them all really, it just depends.


Backspace method is great if your hatcheries are close together, but if you are doing any sort of Muta strat with bases spread all over, its no good. Minimap clicking is good for that.

I open 4Q against terran and generally sit on those queens the whole game, by the time you have 5+ hatcheries and 4 queens you don't have to macro perfectly anymore, you just make extra macro hatcheries to catch up/create a larva bank to instantly remax.

On March 16 2012 08:39 dsousa wrote:
More PRO zergs need to start hotkeying their eggs that are producing army units.

Its seems far better because you don't have bad rallies and your units reinforce faster.

Why don't more people do it?

On March 16 2012 08:40 BoondockVeritas wrote:


Stephano does it sometimes and I think Destiny may too. It might be to not let new units run through enemy lines if its positional problematic? idk tbh.

On March 16 2012 08:44 Smoot wrote:
I used to do the shift backspace style, but when I hotkeyed the queens to 4 and it ~ then two things would eventually happen in a long game.

1. My queens start to go nuts. (we all can attest to this)
2. Using tilde and having all the queens bound I would end up fat fingering '1' while holding the shift trying to cycle through all my hatcheries in the late game. Of course I wouldn't notice until I had 5-6 queens nowhere near their hatches, but instead hanging next to my army. (I use '1' for army)

So I started to play without hotkeying the queens at all. Just tilde, grab - v
Works great for me. No fat fignering, no mistakes.

It really is just as easy. Even if you box the whole screen the queens always end up first in your group, so you don't need pro-style selecting when doing it. Saves me from mucking things up lategame.

On March 16 2012 18:42 Ryndika wrote:
I've used them all and I'm most comfortable with 4all hatch, 5main, 6nat, 7 3rd, 8, 4th. I can follow closely the progress of inject. It's more APM intensive but it's not a problem for me. Also it's more solid against drops since queen getting sniped doesnt matter as much.
It's retard to call one being best above others. All got good sides and bad sides and it comes to personal preference.
Also binding hats invidually will allow you to do some crazy shit you wouldn't otherwise do.

Using a method which forces you to either have the exact same number of queens as bases or slow it down a lot has obvious problems.

On March 16 2012 19:15 Madera wrote:
@Tobberoth, I wouldn't say not hotkeying queens is far slower, it's pretty fast once you get used to it -- watch someone like DRG play, he is also one of the best (if not the best) Zerg to keep his queen energy low.


What do you mean? You don't need the same number of queens as hatcheries for that method to work, you just tap back to your bases with queens using your hotkeys.

There are more reasons why it's good to hotkey your hatcheries individually than the ones you noted and being able to check your larva progression tapping 3 buttons quickly is a really good habit to have when you're not at your base macroing.

Of course it's far slower, pure physics prove it. Using a mouse is never as fast as using a keyboard. Just because DRG uses it and is one of the best zergs doesn't mean the method itself is better, it just means he's better. The difference between inject methods is not big enough to win or lose you games anyway, it's just easier to get good at it using an effective system

Feel free to explain more reasons why it's good to hotkey hatcheries individually compared to have saved locations. I already noted inject progression, but it isn't needed if you have the timings down (with proper location keys, you can keep checking your bases constantly anyway, it's extremely fast) and if you want more keys for your units, it's a high price to pay.

On March 16 2012 19:58 Madera wrote:
@Tobberoth, I don't know which method you use but I'm guessing the backspace method. Yes, your method will always be a bit faster than either binding your queens or your hatcheries. You're not going to lose games because of which injecting method you use but I still prefer hotkeying my hatcheries because it personally gives me more control.

They are both as you put it, effective systems and I'm not arguing that mine is better. DRG is not the best Zerg in the world because of the way he injects but I was stating that the setup I use is as fast as it needs to be to be used in high-end competitive play.


Okay, so first of all, I use both camera hotkeys on my bases and I hotkey my hatcheries. The reasons why I like hotkeying them individually are purely personal and won't help your play except checking for larva progression but I'd advise against checking your progression with camera hotkeys because you don't want your eyes and hands doing the same thing, i.e, macroing and looking at your base.

I still think tapping to see your larva progress is really good even though you know the timings in your head (I do). Would you like to explain a little bit more why you think it's unnecessary? I'm happy with having my army on 3 control groups so I wouldn't really call it sacrificing control groups for hatcheries.

On March 16 2012 21:11 Madera wrote:
@Tobberoth, We obviously disagree on how long is too long when you're injecting your hatcheries but that's fine. I haven't found any annoyance with focusing my eyes but it may be because you're not used to it. For me, it's rather easy to tap back, select the queen and inject without having my eyes focus for more than a split second. It's easy to find inconveniences in each other's methods because we don't use them on a daily basis.

The Darkgrid layout seems pretty cool and definitely better than the standard backspace method so I'll have to check it out and see if I like it. It might drive me insane though because I've been using my setup for 3-4 years.

On March 16 2012 17:47 ckolev wrote:
I use the "Backspace" inject when my hatcheries are equal to my queens (3 or 4 usually) , but my hotkeys are very re-ordered.

What I use is CTRL_group_4 for the queens, W key for the "base camera" hotkey and E for inject larva on the queen. My injects look like:

4->E->W+click

Since 4, E and W keys are very close, its actually gives additional speed to the total action sequence (1-1.5 seconds to inject 4 hatcheries)

In late game, then I have 6+ hatcheries, I use what you called the "Hardcore" style, as the "base camera" one mixes up my queens. With 6+ hatcheries, you don't need to be so precise on the injects, if I inject 4 hatcheries and I have 2-3 more, usually that's over 20 larva from one inject cycle.

On March 16 2012 17:42 Tobberoth wrote:
I use the Darkgrid method. It's without a doubt the best method since it's just as fast as backspace inject, but with way more control, you only inject the hatches you want to inject, and in the order you want to inject them, so there's no queens running around or any other BS.

On March 17 2012 01:27 kaluro wrote:


This clearly shows that you're promoting a method while throwing another one in the dirt for no reason.
With the backspace inject method, you use S at the end of your cycle so that your queens hold ground.

On March 17 2012 01:30 Math.random(); wrote:
I have every hatch on a single hotkey and no queens on any hotkey. Becuause I love flexibility, checking the bar to the next inject and having not to use f1,2,3,4 to jump quickly to my base to pull drones in case of a drop. It may be slower but I don't think I'm having a big disadvantage with it. If I've 5+ I'm trying to hold down backspace+shift+v+spam right click.

On March 17 2012 02:04 Iksf wrote:


A lot of people who use camera hotkeys etc seem to forget about the larva meter. Unless your looking at your base you cannot see your larva progress with camera hotkeys and though you can guess its nice to have it exactly right. Personally I don't use my all hatcheries key (0) until lategame because 4sd5sd6sd7sd etc gives me much more control over both my injects but also ensuring no hatcheries have over 3 larva.

On March 17 2012 01:55 Kaitlin wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
But using 'S' at the end of the inject cycle to prevent wandering queens doesn't resolve the issue that the hatches those wandering queens were on their way to go uninjected. I'm not pew-pew'ing the Backspace method, I use it partially as well, but it's still a problem.

On March 16 2012 10:39 FabledIntegral wrote:
I really dislike the topic as it assumes people all use some complex method. I don't hotkey my queens. I just scroll on the minimap between hatches and manually select my queen then inject. T_T

On March 27 2012 06:32 Guamshin wrote:
I hotkey all my hatches individually(from 5 to 0), no all hatch control group, BW stlye :D, i also use camera hotkeys on 4 of my bases.

I like that that using this makes you "work" more instead of just going 4sdddddddddddddd, you have alot of control of your rally points and there is no time wasted on a drone/unit coming from a very far hatch. Im alot more focused and i get a nice apm boost <3.

On March 27 2012 06:32 Guamshin wrote:
I hotkey all my hatches individually(from 5 to 0), no all hatch control group, BW stlye :D, i also use camera hotkeys on 4 of my bases.

I like that that using this makes you "work" more instead of just going 4sdddddddddddddd, you have alot of control of your rally points and there is no time wasted on a drone/unit coming from a very far hatch. Im alot more focused and i get a nice apm boost <3.

On March 27 2012 10:38 Qxz wrote:
Just a question to users of the 55v66v77v method: which finger do you use to press v? I find that the only finger I could keep on v while tapping 5 6 and 7 is the 4th (or 5th, but 5th is difficult to use I find), but it's very incomfortable. Alternatively I could use the 3rd finger for both the hotkeys and v, but that is definitely slower than backspace inject.

I feel like 55v66v77v is in theory best, but since it's so incomfortable I stick with backspace inject.

On March 27 2012 11:37 NachiMe wrote:

I use middle finger on 5/6/7 and index on v. You have to angle your hand a bit sideways but I'm used to it.

On March 27 2012 11:37 NachiMe wrote:

I use middle finger on 5/6/7 and index on v. You have to angle your hand a bit sideways but I'm used to it.

On March 27 2012 10:38 Qxz wrote:
Just a question to users of the 55v66v77v method: which finger do you use to press v? I find that the only finger I could keep on v while tapping 5 6 and 7 is the 4th (or 5th, but 5th is difficult to use I find), but it's very incomfortable. Alternatively I could use the 3rd finger for both the hotkeys and v, but that is definitely slower than backspace inject.

I feel like 55v66v77v is in theory best, but since it's so incomfortable I stick with backspace inject.

On March 27 2012 05:50 AveSharia wrote:


I might be missing something about DarkGrid, but is there something about that inject method that injects hatches with no queens nearby? I mean I just assume that if I want a hatch injected, I have to have a queen for it.

On March 27 2012 12:04 Cyanocyst wrote:
Can anyone tell me how players, (and i know this is a very popular method) Inject using 55v66v77v method?

Man this just looks odd. For instance im assuming that you use your middle finger to double click the 5, then you index finger to click the V. but as you get further and further away from 5 this becomes harder and harder due to the angle.

On March 27 2012 19:03 snexwang wrote:
Here's a tip: press V with your thumb.

I will demonstrate in the image below.
+ Show Spoiler +

On March 27 2012 20:14 Ketch wrote:
I like how even the poll is

On March 27 2012 20:11 lhr0909 wrote:

Wow that was very clever. i am adding this diagram to the OP. Thanks!

On March 16 2012 08:39 dsousa wrote:
More PRO zergs need to start hotkeying their eggs that are producing army units.

Its seems far better because you don't have bad rallies and your units reinforce faster.

Why don't more people do it?

On March 16 2012 08:03 Hairy wrote:


My hotkeys are:
F1, F2, F3, F4 for camera locations
'4' for all queens
'e' for inject (4->e is very easy)

To inject do:
4, e, [hold shift], F1 click, F2 click, F3 click, F4 click

On March 28 2012 00:20 usNEUX wrote:


What does shift do for you exactly in this situation? I use the backspace method without shift (as I never thought of doing it) but if this will improve my injecting then I'm down!

On March 16 2012 08:03 Hairy wrote:
/sigh
YET ANOTHER larvae inject thread that successfully manages to ignore probably the most efficient method (injecting using saved camera locations to bounce between locations).

Keybind your queens on one hotkey.
Keybind four camera location hotkeys. This also convenient for general navigation!

My hotkeys are:
F1, F2, F3, F4  for camera locations
'4' for all queens
'e' for inject (4->e is very easy)

To inject do:
4, e, [hold shift], F1 click, F2 click, F3 click, F4 click

Actions required for 4 hatcheries: 11
Hotkeys required for 4 hatcheries: 1



Camera location hotkeys is this stuff:


I set camera location hotkeys so I can navigate between my bases extremely easily, eg if there is a helion drop I can just 'F1' (go to main), grab my drones, and hit F2 (my expo) and right click them on minerals. If there is harassment at my third I just hit 'F3' and I'm there. Furthermore, I can use the camera hotkeys to make injecting extremely easy, as I just:

Select all queens
[hold shift] + inject
f1 click, f2 click, f3 click, f4 click

Very easy, very quick, and 100% reliable at any stage of the game. If I have a macro hatch I will usually put it adjacent to one of my other hatches, so I just throw in an extra click. The only downside is that you must set up the camera locations yourself, but there's loads of time to do this at the start of the game (and you want to use camera hotkeys ANYWAY because they're great).

On March 28 2012 02:03 Grayboosh wrote:


I don't know about anyone else, but trying to hold shift while pressing F1 - F4 while alternatively pressing 'e', all with your left hand, sounds like a nightmare. How the hell do you do that?

Using the backspace method, I inject so fast that I don't even see the queens inject. If I happen to cycle to a base that I know doesn't have a queen, I just hit 's', and go through the cycle again.

If you don't like having to stop your queens from moving all over the map, then you could simply concentrate a little more as you cycle through your bases so you don't inject on a base without a queen. Since you only use one hotkey (backspace), as opposed to several different hotkeys for bases, cameras, or queens, this is the most effeceint method in terms of key presses and amount of keys needed to be pressed.

6 - Select Queens
V - Inject
Hold Shift
Backspace - Base 1
Click
Backspace - Base 2
Click
Backspace - Base 3
Click
Backspace - Base 4
Click

Total Key Strokes = 11
Total Keys = 5 (including mouse click)

P.S. Of course, backspace should be mapped to a more convenient key, whatever works for you.

On March 28 2012 12:16 Orek wrote:
Seeing about 75 % players using 1 hotkey for all hacheries, has anyone come up with the answer to which learva goes to which question?
When you have 3 hatcheries with, say, 9 larvae, and you do SDDDDD for 5 drones, which 5 larvae are those? I saw similar question about a year ago in thread
[Q] Order of larva use
and no discussion ever since. If 75% of all Zerg players actually use 1 hotkey, then at least 1 person must have a clear answer to this. Many concluded that its just random but without enough research/sample size. I spent about 3 hours hotkeying indivisual larva and just looking at larvae to find this out. There seems to be a rule to it from my observation, although its pretty close to being random. My sample size was about 30 with 6 larvae research. Did anyone already come up with this answer? Or could I be Einstein of larvae use rule if I find this out first in future?
75% is pretty big number of players doing SDDDDDD without knowing which larvae are spent. Btw, I'm one of them and that is why I'm intrested in the larvae use.
Thank you OP for the opportunity to know how many % for people might potentially benefit from this discussion.

On March 28 2012 02:03 Grayboosh wrote:


I don't know about anyone else, but trying to hold shift while pressing F1 - F4 while alternatively pressing 'e', all with your left hand, sounds like a nightmare. How the hell do you do that?

On March 28 2012 02:03 Grayboosh wrote:
6 - Select Queens
V - Inject
Hold Shift
Backspace - Base 1
Click
Backspace - Base 2
Click
Backspace - Base 3
Click
Backspace - Base 4
Click

6 - Select Queens
V - Inject
[b]Hold Shift[/b]
Backspace - Base ? (3)
Click
Backspace - Base ? (4)
Click
Backspace - Base ? (5)
Click
Backspace - Base ? (6)
Click
Backspace - Base ? (7)
Click
Backspace - Base ? (1)
Click
Backspace - Base ? (2)
Click
Backspace - Base ? (3)
Click
Did I cover every base? Maybe I should inject a few more bases to be sure...
Hit 's' to stop those queens going mental
Some hatcheries didn't get injected!
I will do the cycle again...

Select all queens
[hold shift] + inject
f1 click, f2 click, f3 click, f4 click

On March 28 2012 08:07 Sbrubbles wrote:
I do the backspace method, except that I rebinded my keys so it's F1-F2-F3-*click*-F2-F3-*click*, etc. It has the effectiveness of the backspace method and the confyness of the F keys.

On March 28 2012 12:16 Orek wrote:
Seeing about 75 % players using 1 hotkey for all hacheries, has anyone come up with the answer to which learva goes to which question?
When you have 3 hatcheries with, say, 9 larvae, and you do SDDDDD for 5 drones, which 5 larvae are those? I saw similar question about a year ago in thread
[Q] Order of larva use
and no discussion ever since. If 75% of all Zerg players actually use 1 hotkey, then at least 1 person must have a clear answer to this. Many concluded that its just random but without enough research/sample size. I spent about 3 hours hotkeying indivisual larva and just looking at larvae to find this out. There seems to be a rule to it from my observation, although its pretty close to being random. My sample size was about 30 with 6 larvae research. Did anyone already come up with this answer? Or could I be Einstein of larvae use rule if I find this out first in future?
75% is pretty big number of players doing SDDDDDD without knowing which larvae are spent. Btw, I'm one of them and that is why I'm intrested in the larvae use.
Thank you OP for the opportunity to know how many % for people might potentially benefit from this discussion.

On March 28 2012 17:17 Tobberoth wrote:

It doesn't really matter. If your macro is good, your larva should be kept close to zero until you're maxed, and in the situations where it matters where your larva turns into what, you should be using camera locations or manual control to create unit X at hatch Y.

On March 28 2012 18:54 Orek wrote:


Yeah, I agree with you. It doesn't matter much and units should be made manually from different hatcheries when needed. Maybe it's just me, but I feel uncomfortable playing a game without knowing how game engine calculate things. Not that knowing it helps my or anyone's play, but it is always nice to know exactly how things work. With enough research, I might make an individual thread about this in the future.

On March 28 2012 19:02 bluQ wrote:

As far as i noticed it seems it works like a First-In First-Out method(just test it using your hotkeys to hotkey the 1st, 2nd and 3rd spawned larvae and try it out). I manually selected hatcheries if I feel it matters if I build the roaches at the natural.

On March 17 2012 01:55 Kaitlin wrote:


But using 'S' at the end of the inject cycle to prevent wandering queens doesn't resolve the issue that the hatches those wandering queens were on their way to go uninjected. I'm not pew-pew'ing the Backspace method, I use it partially as well, but it's still a problem.

On April 24 2012 17:51 HansK wrote:
I'm confused, why not the backspace method? If the wandering queen thing is an issue - why not just not click inject on hatches with no queen? It will surely be just as fast as the time it takes to click the queen I think.

On April 24 2012 18:12 Fencer710 wrote:
I use Optimus 1.3, so control alt + Q, W, E, F, A, and or S, is how I create camera hotkeys, and alt-Q etc is how I jump. I have queens bound to back mouse and hatch bound to forward mouse. Extra queens bound to 5.

So, I hit backmouse, hold down shift and alt and press E, then Q-click-W-click-E-click etc until all hatch are done. I can hold alt and press Q-W-E-F-A-S to check hatches up to 6 bases as well.

So, I guess I use hardcore?

On April 24 2012 17:51 HansK wrote:
I'm confused, why not the backspace method? If the wandering queen thing is an issue - why not just not click inject on hatches with no queen? It will surely be just as fast as the time it takes to click the queen I think.

On March 28 2012 18:21 excellionx wrote:
i started zerg using fruitdealer's keybinds and setup, still do today

On April 25 2012 04:15 lhr0909 wrote:


Even though the wandering queen can be solved by hitting "stop" hotkey or "hold position" hotkey after every backspace spam. The problem with backspace is when you have a lot of hatches but not enough queens (for example, 8 hatches but 4 queens), sometimes you need to spam 2 or 3 times to get the injects because the queens might not be targeting the hatches they are closest to. So to make the method effective, you have to have almost 1 queen per hatch.

Here comes the problem. with 1 queen per hatch in the mid-late game, you will for sure have enough larvae, but you don't have the supply for units because queens are 2 supply each. And if you keep your injects consistent, which is almost a must as a zerg player, 4 queens is more than enough.

On the other hand, no one is perfect. So you must miss inject some time. Thats when macro hatches comes into play. Put down macro hatches next to the queens so they can double inject, and that solves the not enough larvae problem.

So thats why a lot of pros don't backspace inject. They either bind individual queens (IdrA, Destiny), or do a faster method, which is the hardcore style I introduced in the OP. For me, I broke my backspace inject habit about a month or two ago, and started to only use the base camera for moving to the hatches, and all i do next is box the middle of the screen and select units (queen will get prioritized above anything else), then v - click on the hatch, if there is more than one hatch next to that queen and I have excessive energy to double even triple inject, I will hold down shift, and v-click, v-click, ... onto the rest of the hatches next to her. Lots of Korean pros separate their hatches (DRG, Zenio, ...) into different hotkeys based on the locations (main hatch and macro hatch to 1/4, natural hatch and macro hatch to 2/5 etc ...), then all they do is 44, box the queen, v-click, 55, box the queen, v-click and so on. Some pros (TSL_Revival, Spanishiwa) use the custom camera hotkeys to navigate around, so they do F2, box (or use all queen hotkey), v-click, etc...

The hardcore method, in my opinion, is definitely a more efficient way to inject because it is manageable every time other than worrying about queens going everywhere by spamming the backspace inject, more importantly, it frees up a lot of supply by not needing a ton of queens.

On April 25 2012 06:04 HansK wrote:


When you don't have enough queens to match your hatch why not simply just press your backspace key or what ever you have it binded to[for me it's my side mouse button] and only press v and click on the hatch with queens near it. There is no reason queens should ever be running across the map, I don't think?

Here comes the problem. with 1 queen per hatch in the mid-late game, you will for sure have enough larvae, but you don't have the supply for units because queens are 2 supply each. And if you keep your injects consistent, which is almost a must as a zerg player, 4 queens is more than enough.

/sigh
YET ANOTHER larvae inject thread that successfully manages to ignore probably the most efficient method (injecting using saved camera locations to bounce between locations).

Keybind your queens on one hotkey.
Keybind four camera location hotkeys. This also convenient for general navigation!

My hotkeys are:
F1, F2, F3, F4 for camera locations
'4' for all queens
'e' for inject (4->e is very easy)

To inject do:
4, e, [hold shift], F1 click, F2 click, F3 click, F4 click



Actions required for 4 hatcheries: 11
Hotkeys required for 4 hatcheries: 1



Camera location hotkeys is this stuff:
[image loading]

I set camera location hotkeys so I can navigate between my bases extremely easily, eg if there is a helion drop I can just 'F1' (go to main), grab my drones, and hit F2 (my expo) and right click them on minerals. If there is harassment at my third I just hit 'F3' and I'm there. Furthermore, I can use the camera hotkeys to make injecting extremely easy, as I just:

Select all queens
[hold shift] + inject
f1 click, f2 click, f3 click, f4 click

Very easy, very quick, and 100% reliable at any stage of the game. If I have a macro hatch I will usually put it adjacent to one of my other hatches, so I just throw in an extra click. The only downside is that you must set up the camera locations yourself, but there's loads of time to do this at the start of the game (and you want to use camera hotkeys ANYWAY because they're great).

On March 27 2012 12:04 Cyanocyst wrote:
Can anyone tell me how players, (and i know this is a very popular method) Inject using 55v66v77v method?

On April 26 2012 14:26 DarJir wrote:
Anyone else use a combo of hardcore and backspace style? No inject queens on hotkey. Just cycle through bases with hotkey and box to select queen when you get a larvae spawn.

Really starting to like it.

On April 27 2012 04:15 lhr0909 wrote:



That is what I do right now. Feels so good and so efficient.

On April 28 2012 23:47 Numerical wrote:
Bind queens to 5, press V and click a hatch on the minimap. Rinse and repeat 1-5 times. Easy, simple and fast.

On April 28 2012 23:47 Numerical wrote:
Bind queens to 5, press V and click a hatch on the minimap. Rinse and repeat 1-5 times. Easy, simple and fast.