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[Q] Order of larva use

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Morgriff
Profile Joined May 2010
France8 Posts
May 05 2011 10:03 GMT
#1
Hey dear TL users !

I've been lurking around for a long long time and I have to say this forum answered a really huge amount of questions I had.
But today, I used the TL search engine and just didn't managed to find an answer to my interrogation...

"In what order are Zerg larvae used when you group them ?"


Let's assume we have 3 hatches, each hatch owning a different ammount of larvae:
-Hatch 1: 9 larvae
-Hatch 2: 6 larvae
-Hatch 3: 4 larvae

When I select all these larvae at a time, I always wonder which ones will be used first and this annoy me particularly when I want to add exactly 3 drones to each expo (this usually end up with non equal repartition).

So I'd like to know if anyone ever noticed a magic rule that define the order of larva use when you press the mighty "4sddddddddddd..."

I've done several experiments, with several ideas, but none of them seem to be verified consistently:
1-One larva from Hatch1, One larva from Hatch2, One larva from Hatch3, repeat until hatches run out of larvae.
2-Using one larva from the Hatch that is the "richer", repeat.
3-9 larvae from Hatch1 -> 6 from Hatch2 -> 4 from Hatch3
4-Fully random ?
5-Use larva from the nearest (camera wise) hatch first

I guess it's something like one of these, or perhaps a combination of them, but I hadn't a lot of time this morning to experiment... So if someone knows, please let me know too
Lobo2me
Profile Joined May 2010
Norway1213 Posts
May 05 2011 10:28 GMT
#2
Which hatchery I got the units from:
1st test: 2213132313112221111
2nd test: 2121323121311131121
3rd test: 1211223112311213123

Seems random.
Bad manners are better than no manners at all.
Morgriff
Profile Joined May 2010
France8 Posts
May 05 2011 10:37 GMT
#3
Thanks for the input, I just made a few games too, and it also seemed random for me...
I guess I'll always have to deal with non-equal drone repartition and retarded lings that run trough protoss balls to reach their rally point...

OffTopic: 666th post for you, woth mentionning ^^
AnodyneSea
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Jamaica757 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-05 10:38:31
May 05 2011 10:37 GMT
#4
You are making things way more complicated then they should be. If you want 3 drones at each hatch just make 3 drones, right click mineral patch for rally - deselect larva, make 3 more rally again. Simple.

misread op - its random, treat it as such
Lost within the hope of freedom, not for control but in the light of our cause
aka_star
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United Kingdom1546 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-05 11:04:56
May 05 2011 11:04 GMT
#5
Its based on the selection at the bottom of the UI it will turn the first one in the que into a drone. This list is made according to the age of the unit so no way to manipulate it the way you want unless you hotkey each hatch individually.
FlashDave.999 aka Star
FoFo
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands207 Posts
May 05 2011 11:16 GMT
#6
seems that it's random, but i thought zergs put their hatches on diff hotkeys anyway?
"we must avoid balancing SC2 by making everything suck equally hard."
Eleaven
Profile Joined September 2010
772 Posts
May 05 2011 11:24 GMT
#7
Sheth style hotkeying helps a lot with this, but as a previous poster mentioned, if you want to distribute your new drones, just right click on the minerals after you have morphed the larvae (with the eggs still selected)
dredlockz
Profile Joined July 2010
Finland42 Posts
May 05 2011 11:55 GMT
#8
If you like having all your hatcheries in one hotkey there is a trick to select a specific hatchery without having them individually hotkeyed or having to click on the minimap. Actually there's two ways:

1.- Backspace (you should remap that hotkey). to cycle through your hatcheries and select what you want made in each one faster than clicking on the minimap.

2.- Save Camera Position: I always save the camera positions for each of my hatcheries. I remapped Ctrl+F1 to F6. So F1 takes you to your main, F2 to your natural and so on.


I actually end up just using F1 and F2 for main and natural. And the backspace method when I have 3+ hatcheries.
I'm not the fastest zergling in the control group
mothergoose729
Profile Joined December 2010
United States666 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-05 11:56:51
May 05 2011 11:56 GMT
#9
If you have each hatchery on a hotkey, then you can select the hatchery you want. That is a pretty big advantage of that over the back space method or hotkeying queens.

I am not sure, but I think the larva are used in the order they were spawned. Don't quote me though.
Kaitlin
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2958 Posts
May 05 2011 17:08 GMT
#10
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it's not random. It's possible they are added according to the order they were spawned. However, whatever the ordering is, it's not worth keeping track of ingame, so if you want to use larva from specific hatches, use 1) the backspace method and make three at a time, 2) the camera location method and make 3 at a time, or 3) hotkey each hatch separately.
MyNameIsAlex
Profile Joined March 2011
Greece827 Posts
May 05 2011 17:28 GMT
#11
why make it so complicated? want 3 drones in each base? select the according hatch, sddd, repeat.


Some things are better off leaving them simple .
Kambing
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1176 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-05 17:35:52
May 05 2011 17:34 GMT
#12
I posted about this in the simple questions, simple answers thread:


On May 04 2011 02:52 Kambing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 02:27 garett wrote:
didn't want to start a new thread so i will post here.
If as zerg I select all the larvas at all my hatches, and then start builiding units, where do the units will build first?
example: i have my main and natural, with 5 larva each. I select all 10 larva and build 6 roaches. will it be 3 at main and 3 at natural, 5 at main and 1 at nat or maybe else?
thanks for your replies


TL;DR: I just realized I wrote too much for a simple answer. Easy to get me talking about something I've been looking into I suppose. In short, you will get roughly even production but the specifics are unknown.

===

This is actually somewhat of an open question that I need to sit down and figure out one of these days. Here's what I do know via the testing I've done in the past:

1) The order in which you build larva from your hatches is in-order (top-left to bottom right) from the selection of larva obtained when you press the Select Larva command on a set of hatches. So the problem is really determining what order the game places your larva in when you press that button.

2) From observation, it appears that the game smartly orders larva in a group (via Select Larva) so that if there is an equal amount of larva among your hatches, then the sequence of larva in the selection is roughly in a round-robin style . That is, if you have three hatches, then such a selection is possible:


2 1 3 | 3 1 2 | 2 1 3 | ...


where the pipes ('|') are visual aids in demarcating the groups of larva I'm talking about. So if you produce 3N units, then those 3N units will be distributed evenly across your 3 hatches.

I say roughly because I've seen instances such as:


2 1 2 3 1 3 |


where 2 consecutive larva from one hatch appear before larva from the other two hatches in a sequence, but never 3. So that gives me reason to believe that there is some smart grouping here rather than the sequence being completely random.

3) The sequence of larva you get from a selection is not stable. That is, new larva are not necessarily appended to the end of the sequence. For example, if you produce all larva at one hatch but not the other 2 hatches, then the new larva at that first hatch will be inserted into the sequence of larva so that it is roughly round-robin as described before.

Other than those 3 things, I don't know the precise algorithm that larva is ordered (in general, any selection of units of the same type) which affects whether we get an even distribution with the one production hotkey method. In particular, I only looked at un-injected hatches for simplicity's sake as injections can mess up the ordering (but shouldn't fundamentally change how things are ordered).

Besides all these technicalities, we can probably say for certain that the distribution of units is "even enough" for most practical purposes.



I'll probably take a closer look this weekend since it sounds like people are interested in a more definite answer now...
CookieMaker
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada880 Posts
May 05 2011 17:42 GMT
#13
I was told that it depends on where your screen position is a the time of selecting. I was also told that it would evenly distribute the building among the hatcheries by larve percentage (i.e. in the OP situation, hatch 1 would get approximately 1/2 the "work"), so if you build say 9 drones, about 5 would go to hatch 1, 3 to hatch 2 and 2 to hatch 3. Unverified though.
Micro your Macro
Gao Xi
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Hong Kong5178 Posts
May 05 2011 21:41 GMT
#14
i cant get used to using the backspace key (even if it remapped). so i just hotkey my hatches individually and have a hotkey for all my hatches together
龔智禮 _________________________________________________________________________________________________ CJ NATION
nitdkim
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
1264 Posts
May 05 2011 21:45 GMT
#15
On May 06 2011 06:41 Gao Xi wrote:
i cant get used to using the backspace key (even if it remapped). so i just hotkey my hatches individually and have a hotkey for all my hatches together

i have my hatches on 4,5,6,7,8. just 1 more click than having queens hotkeyed. plus a bit more freedom in larve distribution. I'm trying to not use 4 and free it up for units but I've been doing this since BW... kinda hard to change it. All my hatcheries are on ~ hotkey.
PM me if you want random korean images translated.
zergrushkekeke
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia241 Posts
May 06 2011 05:45 GMT
#16
To add more confusion, replays seem to group the larva differently than in game. When watching from a zerg players perspective you will see them grab all their larva, spawn drones out of the 5th, 6th, 7th larva, then an overlord from the 1st and 8th. What I mean is you see 16 larva selected in the bottom, and then in no real order (well no order known yet) they will turn into cocoons. Can you tab through the larva?
KEKEKE
SxYSpAz
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1451 Posts
May 06 2011 06:15 GMT
#17
On May 05 2011 20:55 dredlockz wrote:
If you like having all your hatcheries in one hotkey there is a trick to select a specific hatchery without having them individually hotkeyed or having to click on the minimap. Actually there's two ways:

1.- Backspace (you should remap that hotkey). to cycle through your hatcheries and select what you want made in each one faster than clicking on the minimap.

2.- Save Camera Position: I always save the camera positions for each of my hatcheries. I remapped Ctrl+F1 to F6. So F1 takes you to your main, F2 to your natural and so on.


I actually end up just using F1 and F2 for main and natural. And the backspace method when I have 3+ hatcheries.

i kno i could just go to the day 9 mechanics episode to find this out, but how do u set camera position? like ctrl f1-f9 or something?
ssartor
Profile Joined February 2011
United States129 Posts
May 06 2011 06:56 GMT
#18
From my experience, I have found that when you have two bases, before queens are out, when you make units the larvae from the hatch that has the most is the one that is used first. More bases and more larvae stored up makes it more complicated though and I'm not sure what happens then. But its nice that its smart enough to do that though, that way if a hatch has three and another has two the three hatch will make first therefore letting it produce more larvae.
"If you don't know, the thing to do is not to get scared, but to learn." — Ayn Rand (Atlas Shrugged)
Malhavoc
Profile Joined October 2010
Italy308 Posts
May 06 2011 09:41 GMT
#19
On May 06 2011 15:56 ssartor wrote:
From my experience, I have found that when you have two bases, before queens are out, when you make units the larvae from the hatch that has the most is the one that is used first. More bases and more larvae stored up makes it more complicated though and I'm not sure what happens then. But its nice that its smart enough to do that though, that way if a hatch has three and another has two the three hatch will make first therefore letting it produce more larvae.


I've always thought the same thing. Which is useful also when you have an hatch with 19 larvas, and it would be better to use some from there first, before the inject on that hatchery finishes.

However I've never verified it.. time to take a look and test a bit maybe..
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