EPTNotes/Build Stephano's ZVP and ZVT Style of Play - Page 2
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Drmooose
United States390 Posts
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ArhK
France287 Posts
On March 13 2012 16:19 Drmooose wrote: Thanks for the write up. Working on adapting to this style currently. I find that I don't have enough gas when I play this though. When should I put up my other gases? (Mid-Master lvl) In ZvP, he takes 2 gases at 6 minutes, a third at 7 minutes, and after that it really depends if the P is all in or if he is teching. If the P appears to be teching, sometimes Stephano put down a spire and transition to muta pressure while double expanding and pressuring the front with his roach/ling army. | ||
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Drmooose
United States390 Posts
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zeroISM
Japan161 Posts
Thank you very much. *saved* | ||
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ArhK
France287 Posts
On March 13 2012 16:54 Drmooose wrote: TY. I tend to take my gases at around 7 or so which is a bit too late for what I'm trying to do. I'll toss them down earlier and see how it works out! I agree, before studying his stream closely I used to take them way later than that, but it works well, with the following priority as stated by the OP : First 100 gas to lair, next 100 gas to speedling upgrade, next 100 gas to +1 missile attack, and after that speed roaches whenever you can afford it. | ||
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XChoke
Australia45 Posts
http://fr.twitch.tv/mstephano/b/311464161 | ||
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Zealos
United Kingdom3575 Posts
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
Stephano himself has said he barely goes off of food or timer timings, he goes off of feel and what he thinks is best so he may change some of these timings from time to time. I'm not sure, but to anyone that bothers to read my post you should use some of these timings and the understanding behind them to help them develop your own style and help feel the game  . Also scouting is extremely important, thanks for mentioning it! | ||
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Zealos
United Kingdom3575 Posts
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SKGZombie
United States42 Posts
On March 18 2012 23:39 Zealos wrote: What does he do when toss goes for air? I understand that he can defend with spores and queens, but does he not bother getting aggressive with the roaches? Muta to kill the air? Hyrda? Heres a game of Stephano Vs Elfi Where Elfi goes double SG after FFE. Stephano gets queens and spores as immediate defense while teching to hydras. Then rolls Elfi with a big Roach hydra ball http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/(P)AcerElfi_vs_(Z)MǂStephano/18436 Ive put this BO into yabot as stephano gets up to 86 supply by the 8 min mark in this game for anyone who wants to add it to yabot to help train their macro heres a link to sc2builds so you can put it into yabot to practice unfortunately it only lets you add the first 15 steps but I mean those are really the most important in a standard ZvP Vs FFE http://www.sc2builds.com/build-orders/zerg/9595.aspx?s=Build Successfully Updated or here is the BO from that game 9 overlord 14 pool 16 hatch 15 overlord 15 queen inject walk to natural 17 zerglings 1 pair 22 queen 24 overlord 24 hatch 25 overlord 29 queen 36 tumor at nat wall to third 42 overlord 5:50 double extractor 53 overlord 54 supply 6:47 roach warren Evo chamber 100 gas ling speed 54. Overlord 100 gas lair 62 overlord 62 8 zerglings 66 4 roaches 8 min 86 supply 55 drones 10 overlords 3 queens 10 lings IN PRODUCTION 16 lings 6 roaches | ||
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mYiKane
Canada1772 Posts
On March 19 2012 02:00 SKGZombie wrote: Heres a game of Stephano Vs Elfi Where Elfi goes double SG after FFE. Stephano gets queens and spores as immediate defense while teching to hydras. Then rolls Elfi with a big Roach hydra ball http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/(P)AcerElfi_vs_(Z)MǂStephano/18436 Ive put this BO into yabot as stephano gets up to 86 supply by the 8 min mark in this game for anyone who wants to add it to yabot to help train their macro heres a link to sc2builds so you can put it into yabot to practice unfortunately it only lets you add the first 15 steps but I mean those are really the most important in a standard ZvP Vs FFE http://www.sc2builds.com/build-orders/zerg/9595.aspx?s=Build Successfully Updated or here is the BO from that game 9 overlord 14 pool 16 hatch 15 overlord 15 queen inject walk to natural 17 zerglings 1 pair 22 queen 24 overlord 24 hatch 25 overlord 29 queen 36 tumor at nat wall to third 42 overlord 5:50 double extractor 53 overlord 54 supply 6:47 roach warren Evo chamber 100 gas ling speed 54. Overlord 100 gas lair 62 overlord 62 8 zerglings 66 4 roaches 8 min 86 supply 55 drones 10 overlords 3 queens 10 lings IN PRODUCTION 16 lings 6 roaches the number of zerglings and roaches he makes varies from game to game. for example, he only makes 1 pair of lings on shakuras because of the narrow middle of the map he can use an overlord + 1 ling to scout the entire middle of the map if any probes go through. also his first 100 gas goes into lair usually. | ||
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Baio
112 Posts
His style is perfect macro and perfect defense. Sometimes he plays as greedy as possible, so extremely that everybody would say WTF NO WAY YOU CAN GO THROUGH WITH THIS like having a forth base coming up at 9:30 with nearly 80 drones relying on spine crawlers only and goint straight to infestor broodlord without even try to delay the third base then on other maps he maxes out at 12 minutes with 1/1 speed roaches and kills any protoss who thinks about the silly idea of a third base. What makes him really unique and what I would describe his style is being absolutely not afraid to make amounts of defense any other zerg would consider retarded in that situation but it magically works out every time. I remember games where he's stuck on 2 base making 7 spines and being significantly behind in eco but still winning thanks to his defense and a unreal macro explosion when he gets to expand. I also remember a game aganst Polt on Taldarim where he opts for a 6:40 third base against a 2 base marauder hellion push overmaking dozens of spine acrawlers at his nat and losing them as well as the natural to the push but keeping his third and being practically even in eco after reclaming the natural. The style Stephano plays is practically being as efficient as possible and having exactly as much stuff as you can possibly have when opting for a style at a certain point in combination with perfectly estimating how much he needs for defending. The only match up where he goes for a really characterstic unit composition is ZvZ. He is a hard-boiled roach player never ever going muta. He defends any muta play with massing queens and spores turtling on three base and then rolling the muta ling bling player with a practically unholdable roach queen infestor push. He also never goes for Ultra in ZvZ, always broodlord. @Zealoss: White-Ra has played mass air against him a good few times with nearly always the same outcome. Stephano guesses/scouts the style extremely early, takes a 9 min forth and drones to ninety while massing spines and spores in bizarre numbers eventually zoning out the whole map with creep and unpenetrable spine/spore walls. He completely forgoes low tech units and builds corruptor/infestor only. With the infestors he makes any engagement of the spores suicidal. He then continually hunts the mothership with a huge flock of corruptors until he is able to threaten the protoss with his constantly moving frontier of creep, spores and spines and brood lords. | ||
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Zealos
United Kingdom3575 Posts
On March 19 2012 02:00 SKGZombie wrote: Heres a game of Stephano Vs Elfi Where Elfi goes double SG after FFE. Stephano gets queens and spores as immediate defense while teching to hydras. Then rolls Elfi with a big Roach hydra ball http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/(P)AcerElfi_vs_(Z)MǂStephano/18436 Ive put this BO into yabot as stephano gets up to 86 supply by the 8 min mark in this game for anyone who wants to add it to yabot to help train their macro heres a link to sc2builds so you can put it into yabot to practice unfortunately it only lets you add the first 15 steps but I mean those are really the most important in a standard ZvP Vs FFE http://www.sc2builds.com/build-orders/zerg/9595.aspx?s=Build Successfully Updated or here is the BO from that game 9 overlord 14 pool 16 hatch 15 overlord 15 queen inject walk to natural 17 zerglings 1 pair 22 queen 24 overlord 24 hatch 25 overlord 29 queen 36 tumor at nat wall to third 42 overlord 5:50 double extractor 53 overlord 54 supply 6:47 roach warren Evo chamber 100 gas ling speed 54. Overlord 100 gas lair 62 overlord 62 8 zerglings 66 4 roaches 8 min 86 supply 55 drones 10 overlords 3 queens 10 lings IN PRODUCTION 16 lings 6 roaches Perfect :D Exactly what I was looking for + Show Spoiler + On March 19 2012 02:40 Baio wrote: @Zealoss: White-Ra has played mass air against him a good few times with nearly always the same outcome. Stephano guesses/scouts the style extremely early, takes a 9 min forth and drones to ninety while massing spines and spores in bizarre numbers eventually zoning out the whole map with creep and unpenetrable spine/spore walls. He completely forgoes low tech units and builds corruptor/infestor only. With the infestors he makes any engagement of the spores suicidal. He then continually hunts the mothership with a huge flock of corruptors until he is able to threaten the protoss with his constantly moving frontier of creep, spores and spines and brood lords. Was more thinking agaisnt a single stargate, just to build a few voids, nonetheless, this is useful information if anyone was to go mass air, cheers. | ||
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Baio
112 Posts
On March 19 2012 21:22 Zealos wrote: + Show Spoiler + On March 19 2012 02:00 SKGZombie wrote: Heres a game of Stephano Vs Elfi Where Elfi goes double SG after FFE. Stephano gets queens and spores as immediate defense while teching to hydras. Then rolls Elfi with a big Roach hydra ball http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/(P)AcerElfi_vs_(Z)MǂStephano/18436 Ive put this BO into yabot as stephano gets up to 86 supply by the 8 min mark in this game for anyone who wants to add it to yabot to help train their macro heres a link to sc2builds so you can put it into yabot to practice unfortunately it only lets you add the first 15 steps but I mean those are really the most important in a standard ZvP Vs FFE http://www.sc2builds.com/build-orders/zerg/9595.aspx?s=Build Successfully Updated or here is the BO from that game 9 overlord 14 pool 16 hatch 15 overlord 15 queen inject walk to natural 17 zerglings 1 pair 22 queen 24 overlord 24 hatch 25 overlord 29 queen 36 tumor at nat wall to third 42 overlord 5:50 double extractor 53 overlord 54 supply 6:47 roach warren Evo chamber 100 gas ling speed 54. Overlord 100 gas lair 62 overlord 62 8 zerglings 66 4 roaches 8 min 86 supply 55 drones 10 overlords 3 queens 10 lings IN PRODUCTION 16 lings 6 roaches Perfect :D Exactly what I was looking for + Show Spoiler + On March 19 2012 02:40 Baio wrote: @Zealoss: White-Ra has played mass air against him a good few times with nearly always the same outcome. Stephano guesses/scouts the style extremely early, takes a 9 min forth and drones to ninety while massing spines and spores in bizarre numbers eventually zoning out the whole map with creep and unpenetrable spine/spore walls. He completely forgoes low tech units and builds corruptor/infestor only. With the infestors he makes any engagement of the spores suicidal. He then continually hunts the mothership with a huge flock of corruptors until he is able to threaten the protoss with his constantly moving frontier of creep, spores and spines and brood lords. Was more thinking agaisnt a single stargate, just to build a few voids, nonetheless, this is useful information if anyone was to go mass air, cheers. A single stargate is virtually useless against Stepano. Void + Phoenix do no damage because he is not afraid to make mass queens and spores. He easily gets the timing right to defend his third and then rolls you with superior economy and pure roach mostly. Against mass phoenix I saw him creepspreading like crazy and bringing queens to the frontline. | ||
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Benjamin80
581 Posts
I do admit his normal ZvT style has really helped me alot I rarely lose to terran these days. Ling/infestor/ultralisk. I think ill try to practise this new roach/ling/broodlord style now | ||
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kAelle_sc
287 Posts
Also in this VOD http://www.twitch.tv/mstephano/b/312303166 he plays iNcontroL on the NA ladder and the late game ends up as Ultralisk/Crackling/Infestor vs Chargelot/Archon/DT/Mothership. The Infestor/Ling ZvP build has not been seen many times lately, though it has been used many times in the past. I do not know the optimal build since Stephano got his natural and third delayed a lot by iNcontroL's pylon block. | ||
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kAelle_sc
287 Posts
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Jabu
Canada13 Posts
quick question here, in ZvT (3 base map) when you say get 3rd before extractor, are you talking about the first one or the 3 other when the main and natural are saturated? | ||
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Stevom188
United States10 Posts
On March 26 2012 05:34 Jabu wrote: Hi, quick question here, in ZvT (3 base map) when you say get 3rd before extractor, are you talking about the first one or the 3 other when the main and natural are saturated? Hey Jabu, You want to get your third before your three extractors that are timed around 6min or 44-50 supply. Dry to sneak your drone past his helions, and once your 3rd hatchery starts building, the helions cannot deny your expansion. | ||
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Stevom188
United States10 Posts
On March 24 2012 21:45 c_kAelle wrote: While I see Stephano getting Brood Lords in many of his ZvT's, why did you not add that he usually also goes for Ultralisk/Crackling/Infestor with 3/3 in the late game (possible tech switch to double Spire Brood Lord)? I've seen more games where he goes Ultralisks over Brood Lords and I've seen many of Stephano's games. It would be great if the OP added this. Also in this VOD http://www.twitch.tv/mstephano/b/312303166 he plays iNcontroL on the NA ladder and the late game ends up as Ultralisk/Crackling/Infestor vs Chargelot/Archon/DT/Mothership. The Infestor/Ling ZvP build has not been seen many times lately, though it has been used many times in the past. I do not know the optimal build since Stephano got his natural and third delayed a lot by iNcontroL's pylon block. I will look more into this! This draft is very preliminary, I ultimately want to get to a build that takes different paths depending on what you scout from your opponent. From his recent ladder games it seems like he tends to stick to broodlords against protoss, but in tournament/ pro play it could be different. | ||
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