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On March 10 2012 16:50 SidewinderSC2 wrote:
Isn't this Reversible Jacket with a little more detailed information?
I love that build BTW, just wondering what your comments are on this thread and Reversible Jacket.
I touched on this in the guide. Basically, Reversible Jacket was supposed to be a fun style where you had a really cool multi-pronged timing attack, but it had weaknesses. This build is what you get if you take that fun Reversible Jacket style and make it solid against everything. A lot of the changes were things that a good player would figure out on their own from playing Reversible Jacket a lot, but this build has everything optimized so you don't have to figure it out yourself.
Some of the changes include:
Z+S poke to scout 111 vs early pressure vs gasless FE
Optimized reaction vs 111
3rd gate instead of forge vs early pressure
Slower robo and no dark shrine if standard play
Stronger mid-game army in a direct fight, more direct pressure instead of harass pressure
Well-defined 4th gas timing
Planned out colossus transition
The builds are similar, but this is a "Strong vs Everything" build whereas Reversible Jacket is a "I want to have some fun and watch Terran crumble under multi-tasking pressure" build.
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On March 11 2012 00:28 Xanatoss wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 00:06 kcdc wrote:
Crap after checking, I still got it wrong. 3 on probes, 3 on WG 1 on zealot is right. You have 7 to use.but 4 on WG makes it finish too fast. Better to save the last chronological for forge. And yes. I botch my chronological a lot cuz the poke the nexus and the infrastructure buildings all seem to happen at the same time and my mechanics suck. 2 tax is a joke vs this build even with botched chrono tho.
Yes because Terrans equally suck executing it.
With the third gate at 5:20, I think there's 10 seconds to spare with the timings to still defend 2 rax comfortably. With the robo or forge instead of the third gate, you need to hit the timings more crisply to defend well. It's not impossible to hold with 2 gates, but it's too thin to be practical if you want the highest possible win percentage.
Have you tried scouting and reacting with a third gate at 5:20?
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I hope you can check out this replay, I basically lost to a 2rax marine scv all in, http://drop.sc/129519 , on metal, do you think this is also too small of a map 1gate fe on? I notice you said that shattered was too small to 1gate fe on. What do you normally do on these maps instead?
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On March 11 2012 14:15 Tyler73123 wrote:I hope you can check out this replay, I basically lost to a 2rax marine scv all in, http://drop.sc/129519 , on metal, do you think this is also too small of a map 1gate fe on? I notice you said that shattered was too small to 1gate fe on. What do you normally do on these maps instead?
(1) Close positions Metal is kind of cutting it. I found Shattered to be just a few seconds too close in rush distance, so Metal is a borderline case. You might do MC's 1 gate expo instead.
(2) That said, 2 rax marine-SCV is not one of the rushes that gives this build trouble in close positions. In terms of build order, you were more or less okay--you just didn't react quickly enough. Here's what you should do next time:
-Build a pylon touching your ramp and overlooking your natural. This is something you should do every game since it's on high ground so it's safe, it proves power for low-ground warp-ins, and it allows you to wall the top of your ramp with 300 minerals (2 gates). If you watch my replays, my first pylon is always in the middle of my base, my 2nd pylon goes on an edge of my base where I want to spot for drops, and my third pylon goes at the top of the ramp. I actually don't always get it touching the ramp, but I do always make sure it can power a full wall-off. If it's not touching, it costs 400 to wall off which is still doable, but not quite as good.
-Cancel your nexus right away and with the 300 minerals, build 2 gates to wall off. If you can get your stalker back in first, that's a plus, but it's not necessary.
-Chronoboost out stalkers and kill as much as you can before the wall dies
-Micro stalkers vs marines
If you practice it a couple times, you'll be able to win 100%.
Also, in your rep, you made the nexus 1 probe too late--you lost your scout probe, so the nexus comes on 26 supply. 
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cool build gets you out of the midgame real nicely!
question though, do you take your fourth assimilator after the TC or templar archives? in the guide i says TC but in the replays iw atched you take it after templar archives. unless i am misunderstanding
thanks :D
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On March 28 2012 04:42 ant885 wrote:
cool build gets you out of the midgame real nicely!
question though, do you take your fourth assimilator after the TC or templar archives? in the guide i says TC but in the replays iw atched you take it after templar archives. unless i am misunderstanding
thanks :D
I think the best time to take it is after starting the templar archives. I think you have enough minerals to get the 4th gas before starting charge, but that may change game-to-game depending on how well you chronoboosted and kept up your zealot production. Before or after starting charge is only like a 15 second difference.
But if the guide says after TC and before archives, that's not what I usually do, so I'll fix it.
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Is the response to 1 rax Gasless FE the same as how you would respond to a confirmed CC first?
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This build usually works for me vs marine and marauder pressure at the start but have played a few games where he builds marines and hellions early which i cant hold :/ any advice ?
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On April 03 2012 10:26 Fitzy1 wrote:
This build usually works for me vs marine and marauder pressure at the start but have played a few games where he builds marines and hellions early which i cant hold :/ any advice ?
Replay?
There are a lot of ways to use marines and hellions, and it's tough to say how to respond without knowing the style you're having trouble with.
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Um quick question. You may of not see this in ladder but how do u deal with sky terran? (mass banshee raven mariens). This is after a 1/1/1 expo
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This is great, thanks for this!
Edit: Perchance you have a replay where you hold the 1-1-1?
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Great quality content, and another great guide
+1
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Tabbris:
You should think of playing against sky terran or mech terran as a normal macro game. Templar are very strong against banshees and zealot-archon-immortal is very strong against mech. Those styles aren't as strong which is why you don't see them as much, but the surprise and inexperience factors make up for the vulnerabilities. Just focus on playing a solid macro game.
ShamTao:
Sorry, I don't have a replay vs 1-1-1 handy. I do a normal 1-1-1 defense after 1 gate FE tho. The only difference between what I do and what is standard is that my 1 gate FE gets a couple extra probes and I go 2 gates into robo rather than 3 gates into robo.
You should check out Qtip's 1-1-1 guide and MC's 1-gate FE guide, but I'm not sure either thread has a replay with colossi. Often T pushes before you'd get colossi, so you cancel the bay and do what Qtip does.
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Nice build, I'm having a hell lot of fun with it (my 3 Gates Agressive Expo was kinda old nowadays).
But isn't it better to scout after GW (maybe on 9, depends of the map), to sneak a probe in your opponent's base and see if he's taking gaz or not ? (I assume that Terran who make a gaz opening build their assi while rax is building)
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Do you get only one immortal? I've been using style with later colo (I popped 10:55 using your build, but it wasnt perfect.) and I get 4immortals for oneshotting tanks and then many zealot.
I also get blocked always at 92, wtf, tips?
I seem to get only 2phoenix out before 112 hits, is this normal?
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On April 06 2012 19:45 Ryndika wrote:
Do you get only one immortal? I've been using style with later colo (I popped 10:55 using your build, but it wasnt perfect.) and I get 4immortals for oneshotting tanks and then many zealot.
I also get blocked always at 92, wtf, tips?
I seem to get only 2phoenix out before 112 hits, is this normal?
You can get more immortals if that works for you. I think I get 2 before I start making colossi, and then after 2 colossi, I'll go back to immortals if the game isn't over already.
~2 phoenixes sounds about right. You could probably skip the stargate if you really wanted. It's primarily there to prevent T from getting a ton of banshees and circumventing the cannons to harass your main.
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I just played a game on a 2p map (Korhal), where my opponent made a 6 rax all-in (4 at each corner of his base, 2 made at a random location), I poked at sth like 6min maybe at his nat and saw only marines, so I assumed a gasless expand, but a moment later he came and rolled over me. What can I do to prevent/defend this ?
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On April 11 2012 05:17 Sakray wrote:
I just played a game on a 2p map (Korhal), where my opponent made a 6 rax all-in (4 at each corner of his base, 2 made at a random location), I poked at sth like 6min maybe at his nat and saw only marines, so I assumed a gasless expand, but a moment later he came and rolled over me. What can I do to prevent/defend this ?
(1) Count marines. I believe 1-rax expo should have 4 marines when you poke. If there's 5+, something is up. I could be wrong on that number tho--I haven't played in a couple weeks.
(2) Hold a tower. If you think tech is likely, use a probe to hold the tower and bring the stalker back to defend your base. Otherwise, keep the stalker at a tower.
When you see the push coming, you need to make a decision about whether you can hold your expansion. If there are a ton of SCV pulled, cancel the nexus and wall off the top of your ramp (you should always plant your 3rd pylon so it powers your ramp and the low ground beneath your ramp). Against 6 rax marine, the push hits after your nexus finishes, and you might have to sacrifice the natural on some maps. You'll still be way ahead tho since you're both on 1 base and you have tech.
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I'm glad someone dug this up while I was settling down to work this morning, it made for a great read. It sounds very similar to the build I use (I'm mbe 60% WR vs low-mid masters) but yours is much more refined and my 3rd timing always clashed with the 2-4 medivac push.
Will definitely try this style, thanks man-
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I believe the second pylon is missing from the BO.... At 16?
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EPT
