EPT[G] kcdc's PvT - Page 4
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_NIx_
United States49 Posts
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
On April 12 2012 06:01 _NIx_ wrote: what 9 units do you want to have vs. 2rax? 1 sentry, 3 zealots 5 stalkers will reflect it very easily. A-move into it, pop guardian shield and focus the stalkers on the marauders. In general in PvT a mostly stalker army with just a few zealots for soaking damage is best for stopping attacks without stim. For attacks with stim you need more sentries to trap them and thus want more zealots as well which are good when T is trapped, a bit lackluster otherwise. The nice thing is that the gas usage of pure stalkers or zealot/sentry is equal so you can warp in what you need depending on what's coming, if they aren't pushing quickly go with the sentries to prepare for later stim timings, if they are pushing go with the stalkers. | ||
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_NIx_
United States49 Posts
On April 12 2012 06:26 Markwerf wrote: 1 sentry, 3 zealots 5 stalkers will reflect it very easily. A-move into it, pop guardian shield and focus the stalkers on the marauders. In general in PvT a mostly stalker army with just a few zealots for soaking damage is best for stopping attacks without stim. For attacks with stim you need more sentries to trap them and thus want more zealots as well which are good when T is trapped, a bit lackluster otherwise. The nice thing is that the gas usage of pure stalkers or zealot/sentry is equal so you can warp in what you need depending on what's coming, if they aren't pushing quickly go with the sentries to prepare for later stim timings, if they are pushing go with the stalkers. Thank you! I was having some problems against early pressure with this build. ♥ | ||
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spawnferkel
Germany87 Posts
i guess i have to do some sort of aggression | ||
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recklessfire
United States373 Posts
On April 18 2012 06:26 spawnferkel wrote: what would be a good reaction against CC first, i guess i have to do some sort of aggression you can pressure with the initial zealot stalker probe and you can chrono out stalkers if your able to deny the bunker, so that you can deny the expansion altogether. | ||
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tar
Germany991 Posts
(edit: I feel it would be disrespectful not to include a thanks to cecil, monk, alej who really helped protoss-TLers a lot imho) | ||
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Djxinator
United Kingdom14 Posts
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Treehead
999 Posts
This is well after some kind of 2-base 1-1-1 (a 2-2-2, if you will) or any other builds wanting banshees will have cloak. Are you scouting for some sign of this? Or do you generally have cannons around your mineral line at this point anyway? | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On April 18 2012 22:47 Treehead wrote: One question: I notice that in your gasless expand reaction you don't get a Robo until something like 11 minutes. This is well after some kind of 2-base 1-1-1 (a 2-2-2, if you will) or any other builds wanting banshees will have cloak. Are you scouting for some sign of this? Or do you generally have cannons around your mineral line at this point anyway? A combination of scouting and metagaming. Poke the stalker up to check T's front at about 7:30. Usually, you'll be able to pull your stalker away for free. If you see 2+ bunkers, no marauders and an unimpressive marine count, he's probably going 2-base banshee, but it's also possible that he's going triple orbital with fast upgrades. I recommend getting a robo here, but if you feel like you have a read on your opponent and know he likes to be macro-greedy, you could roll the dice and skip the robo anyway. If there's a marauder, it's very unlikely that he's getting cloaked units any time soon and delaying detection is a good gamble. | ||
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Nuclease
United States1049 Posts
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Treehead
999 Posts
On April 20 2012 02:02 kcdc wrote: A combination of scouting and metagaming. Poke the stalker up to check T's front at about 7:30. Usually, you'll be able to pull your stalker away for free. If you see 2+ bunkers, no marauders and an unimpressive marine count, he's probably going 2-base banshee, but it's also possible that he's going triple orbital with fast upgrades. I recommend getting a robo here, but if you feel like you have a read on your opponent and know he likes to be macro-greedy, you could roll the dice and skip the robo anyway. If there's a marauder, it's very unlikely that he's getting cloaked units any time soon and delaying detection is a good gamble. Makes perfect sense. It just feels fragile to look at bio count at one point on the map and say "ah ha, he must not be getting a pre 12-minute banshee" without being able to see much. It's probably silly to think this way, because 99% of games you see either 1-1-1 or MMM(V/G), but still... | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On April 20 2012 03:30 Treehead wrote: Makes perfect sense. It just feels fragile to look at bio count at one point on the map and say "ah ha, he must not be getting a pre 12-minute banshee" without being able to see much. It's probably silly to think this way, because 99% of games you see either 1-1-1 or MMM(V/G), but still... You can get the robo and obs earlier if you want, but my experience is that there's not an extra 225/175 available in the build without substantially tweaking things around. The idea is that you have just enough stuff to survive until storm, and you get storm just in time to defend medivac timings without producing many stalkers or researching blink. You can try moving stuff around, but if you spend 175 gas on getting an obs, your storm will be later which will mean you'll need stalkers which will mean you'll want blink which will mean you'll have less stuff which will mean your expansion is slower, etc etc. I don't think I've ever played or seen a game against gasless expand where a T showed a marauder before 8 minutes and got cloaked banshees before 12 minutes. I'm not sure it'd even be that good as a metagame counter to my build since building marauders and researching conc shell, etc will allow you to have templar out before the banshees reach your base. If they walk in range of your templar before cloaking, you feedback and the harass is done. Or if you have a cannon, you feedback and the harass is done. It's something to acknowledge as a technical possibility, but there's no reason to tweak your play against it until you lose to it at least once. | ||
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spawnferkel
Germany87 Posts
and if you scout after your third pylon on 2 player maps and he cc first you can't chrono your units fast enough to disturb him | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
why dont you scout on 9/11 in 2 player maps so you can see his gas timings? Because scouting on 21 gives you a ton more minerals than scouting on 9 and knowing his gas timings doesn't give me any useful information. I make the same deviations off of a 21 scout that I would off of a 9 scout, but I have an extra ~150 minerals. and if you scout after your third pylon on 2 player maps and he cc first you can't chrono your units fast enough to disturb him Is that even a good thing to do? It just puts your expansion further behind. | ||
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
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LGDraMa
6 Posts
Opening Build Order: 13 gate (3x chronoboost on probes at start) 15 gas 18 core (send scout on 4 player maps) 19 zealot 22 pylon (send scout on 2 player maps) 23 stalker and WG tech (3 chrono total on WG tech) 27 nexus (at 26 food, rally nexus to natural. The probe will reach the natural right on time) 28 gateway 28 sentry 31 pylon how do you make a zealot at 19 if your capped at 18 supply assumining you went 9 pylon which isnt listed in the build order? i just wanna know when to make pylons in this build please , | ||
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recklessfire
United States373 Posts
On May 04 2012 16:21 LGDraMa wrote: how do you make a zealot at 19 if your capped at 18 supply assumining you went 9 pylon which isnt listed in the build order? i just wanna know when to make pylons in this build please , he missed a pylon timing at 16 or 17 i think. If you dont queue up probes, you should have 100 free minerals w/o probe cutting between the first gas and core timing. | ||
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LGDraMa
6 Posts
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
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Treehead
999 Posts
On May 05 2012 04:34 kcdc wrote: C'mon guys. I didn't specify every pylon just like I didn't specify every probe. I only listed the stuff that some people might do differently. Ohhhh. You're making probes. That's what I was doing wrong! I just figured your strat was bad when I never got to 9 food to make my first pylon.  | ||
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