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Pelirrojo
United States98 Posts
On February 16 2012 05:24 abefroman wrote: Anyone know of anything similar to this on NA? Join the channel "MN8" on NA. It's a "low level" group but there are a handful of masters players who are sometimes there and like to help people out. Typically 30 or so people online. I'm sure there are others, I'd check out the "looking for team" and "practice partners" threads. | ||
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Shirolol
England504 Posts
I have a lot of other genre experience though, so it's not like i've got no where to start from but still it's a different game entirely. To directly address your questions though: 1. Could be for a myriad of reasons, how you're trying to improve, what strategies you're using, what race you're playing etc etc.. Impossible to tell you why just from that information you've given i'm afraid. 2. Not at all, i've seen my APM increase from when I first started playing sc2 in the beta (it was something like 30) to now where it's nearer to 100 average. I generally have very low average APM though as I don't spam for spams sake ever, I just do how many actions I need to do, as fast as I can! APM comes with practice usually, knowing EXACTLY what to do and how it feels doing it is when your APM will get higher. Muscle memory is a huge factor in being able to do your in game "to-do list" much quicker than in the past aswell. 3. My practice consists of watching some tournaments like GSL, as I hardly ever play. I don't watch replays of myself or others or try and iron out build orders or anything of the like. I actually wing it in every game I have ever played (I played terran in the past now I play zerg - but I am considering going back to Terran soon as I kind of miss my drops..). Hope that gives you some drive to go play now as 3 hours a day is more than enough time to make your goal of hitting masters! Good luck.  | ||
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SlackerSC
Australia41 Posts
I think the biggest thing is just to be consistent with your practice. If your anything like me you'll go on a big SC2 kick for two weeks, playing heaps and learning new builds, get way better than you were at the start of the two weeks.. Then maybe something will come up and I won't touch the game for another 2 weeks and end up back where I started. If I was going to make a conscious push into diamond/masters I'd have to really set out consistent and focused time to practice my starcraft. I still get supply blocked, my macro still slips if anything unexpected happens, my macro slips every time I move my army out of my natural (etc etc). Your age doesn't matter. Just the amount of time you have to dedicate to the game. | ||
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ODKStevez
Ireland1225 Posts
On February 16 2012 04:01 Berailfor wrote: I wouldn't necessarily recommend coaching. Master league isn't extremely difficult to obtain. Just master your mechanics and that alone should get your there or pretty close. Know what builds are viable against what races, and if you execute those strategies properly then you will make it to master league fairly easily. You just gotta keep winning that's all. It may not have been hard for you but for thousands of us in top Diamond like myself, we just feel like the skill gap between Diamond and Masters is so big. | ||
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Bommes
Germany1226 Posts
edit: By the way I do think that everyone can make it into masters league. Many people including myself have played a lot of video games before (many would say too much), so it feels easy to be in the best 2% of SC2. For others its not a practiced thing, so they have to put a lot more effort into it. This is the same reason that we don't see any progamers yet who play SC2 as their first RTS. The vast majority of them was already among the very best players in other RTS games, so the transition to SC2 is easier than for players with less experience. I think the most important thing is to just get comfortable using your mouse, be aware of how accurate and fast you can select things, don't look at your APM it doesn't say anything about that, just try to do the little things as fast and as accurate as possible and don't focus too much on the ingame strategy or the mindgames. Its all about the execution and that includes being aware of what is going on around you. You should always make sure that you know why you lost and that you don't analyze your losses wrong. | ||
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3D-Swifty
England69 Posts
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
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Alisera
United States71 Posts
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Mesha
Bosnia-Herzegovina439 Posts
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phiinix
United States1169 Posts
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ishyishy
United States826 Posts
I usually just played WoW; I've played that for 8 years. I played some single player games like Crysis too. Then Sc2 came out. I bought it on release. The only reason I bought it was because it was a Blizzard game and I knew that it would have millions of dollars behind it. As any other new player to RTS, I started out in low Bronze. I think the highest was plat, maybe diamond just came out? I cant remember. I remained in bronze for about 3 weeks. After that, I started going up in rank. THe only thing I did was go to Youtube and search Protoss guides. I found some for proxy 2 gating and 4 gating, so I tried those builds. I'd say it was no longer than another 3 weeks later and I was in diamond. Fast forward. I hit Master league 2 seasons ago, and was able to maintain it. I never got past rank 50 or so, but I never got demoted either. I was winning less than half my games, and I wasnt having fun anymore. Some people enjoy challenge and like to improve at things, but I generally dont. I'm now using another account that I bought for my friend (that he doesnt use anymore because he hates this game lol) which goes from bronze-plat and back again, depending on what league I want to troll. As for the OP: Yes it is possible, anyone can hit master league. I come from the opposite of RTS background and I did it without TOO much trouble. I only play 2 or 3 games a day, if that. Side opinion: I hate the ladder. I dont like ladder systems in general. I dont like competition when it isnt in the most casual of formats. Leagues and ranks mean absolutely nothing to me, and they shouldnt mean anything for you either. If you want headaches, lose sleep, and increase your risk of stroke, then get mad at losing lol. | ||
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terrantosaur
42 Posts
BTW I totally agree with the couple of comments about not downplaying Masters status. As someone who really does try to improve, I really really admire anyone who can get there. THose that get there with no apparent effort are just freaky good IMO. So here is my plan: 1. I will watch DeMuslim's stream whenever I can. He is a fellow Brit and I really enjoy his honest comments in-game (like when he's against Protoss and says "I've no idea what build they're doing"... which is exactly how I feel :-)) 2. I will think about getting some coaching. I'm only on the EU server so if anyone could recommend someone I'd appreciate it. 3. I'm going to join the group mentioned above for people who want to get better and see how that goes. 4. I'm going to stick to the following builds: Vs Terran: Reaper expand Vs Protoss: 1/1/1. Sorry but I've tried the macro style and well.... Vs Zerg: 1 rax FE into mass drops. And thanks again everyone for commenting. I will report back on my progress! I've posted an example of my 'style' in each of the match-ups below just in case anyone wants to watch (and then probably explain at great length why there is no conceivable way that someone like me will ever make it to Masters!). Simon http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/17956 http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/17957 http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/17958 | ||
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NoisyNinja
United States991 Posts
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Drowsy
United States4876 Posts
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scarper65
1560 Posts
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
For the average person, yea. If you play 2,000 games (not even sure on the exact number, probably less, whatever) you will definitely be masters though, provided you are at least like 17 years old. So here is my plan:... Dude... your plan is horrible. You aren't getting it. 1. Yes, demuslim is a beast, but you are nowhere near his level, 99% of masters players are seriously like bronze to a diamond compared to him, and you are better off PLAYING. In fact, when I was diamond, and first realized I 'could' hit masters, I made a vow to stop watching tournaments, stop watching streams, stop posting on TL, stop posting on any forum, stop watching VODs, stop watching day9. Suffice to say, i hit masters almost within a week. You just have to PLAY. How much time have you spent on just in this thread alone? An hour already? That's easily 2 games. All the time you waste watching stuff, yea you may learn stuff, but you would've learned a LOT more playing. Not to mention, anyone below high masters is at a level of play where you'd just learn way more by playing the game, and learning it for yourself. Plus, you can't do what Demuslim does, he's 'above ladder', he could do some serious troll stuff and get away with it because he's that good. So maybe some of his play is trolling, maybe he does it but doesn't realize it's not viable against an MVP caliber opponent, maybe he does, but either way you are better off PLAYING. 2. You are way too low level to get coaching. All a coach will do is say "yea man just do this build ezpz get masters pay me $20" or "build probes, build pylons". Get a coach once you hit high masters. Or I mean go for it, it's your money, it's only a bit of time. But you really don't need a coach. You just need to know how to be critical of yourself, and understand you macro like total shit. Because unless you are high masters, it's true that you actually macro like total shit. Myself included (mid masters). 3. You want to play. Maybe join a chat channel and ask to play better people than you, but focus more on playing, not joining social groups. 4. You can do whatever builds you want. It's your macro that's a problem. In short, you need to PLAY more. Get off the forums. Completely disassociate from every tournament, every vod, every pro, every stream. I strongly recommend, that if you want to hit masters, you should not watch any tournaments or anything or even visit reddit or TL (especially reddit). Just get out there and play dude. Masters really isn't high level at all, and even if it was, you are just holding yourself back by not playing. I guarentee you, you play 2,000 games, you'll easily be masters. | ||
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Fencar
United States2694 Posts
I didn't know that in less than a year, I could go straight from bronze>masters. Background doesn't matter too much if you're focused on improving, though it will give you a boost. I actually did play RTS games before SC2, though none quite like this one. They were Majesty, Majesty Gold Edition, Star Wars Empire at War, and the Empire at War Forces of Corruption expansion. Oh yeah, I also did cheeze from Bronze>Platinum; the 6-rax all-in. After that, I started doing more standard builds, usually macro oriented. So lets see, Season 1: Bronze. Mostly played Custom games, didn't know about the pro scene or teamliquid. Season 2: Started playing a lot more most of the way through the season. Managed to make Top 2 gold. I have discovered HuskyStarcraft and Liquid TLO's 6 rax. Season 3: Top 1 Platinum. Discovered Day9 and his awesomeness. Season 4: Diamond. Started watching Day9 a lot more, rather than HuskyStarcraft. Season 5: Top 2 Diamond. Switched hotkey setups from Standard to Optimus 1.3, had a slight tilt period because of that. Season 6 so far: Master league, refining builds and attempting to not get supply blocked. I also didn't play very many games during all this; only a few hundred total. EDIT: On February 16 2012 07:52 Alisera wrote: I'm surprised how many people think anyone can be Masters (even those people with no previous RTS experience). I'm also surprised at the amount of people who play a low amount of games (1-5 a night) and still made it to Masters (even people starting in bronze-gold). It seems like just a matter of time spent and "keep at it"-ness? This thread is encouraging!! This is actually what happened to me. Though, I did spend a lot of time reading forums and watching VOD's. I did notice that you improve faster if you do a mix between the two, and sometimes after having a tilt, playing or doing something else and then coming back for a few games worked wonders. Double Edit: On February 16 2012 11:01 Belial88 wrote: Any gamer can with any race. Anyone can if they play deathball Protoss (not a balance whine, i'm just stating that if you turtle a deathball, you need less skill to pull it off to get to masters, especially since lower level people can't pull off the macro or aggression to 'counter' it and low masters is low level, and mech isn't really viable in all of the 3 match-ups and not as hard to deal with as zerg, you might actually need skill to do it in tvz). For the average person, yea. If you play 2,000 games (not even sure on the exact number, probably less, whatever) you will definitely be masters though, provided you are at least like 17 years old. Dude... your plan is horrible. You aren't getting it. 1. Yes, demuslim is a beast, but you are nowhere near his level, 99% of masters players are seriously like bronze to a diamond compared to him, and you are better off PLAYING. In fact, when I was diamond, and first realized I 'could' hit masters, I made a vow to stop watching tournaments, stop watching streams, stop posting on TL, stop posting on any forum, stop watching VODs, stop watching day9. Suffice to say, i hit masters almost within a week. You just have to PLAY. How much time have you spent on just in this thread alone? An hour already? That's easily 2 games. All the time you waste watching stuff, yea you may learn stuff, but you would've learned a LOT more playing. Not to mention, anyone below high masters is at a level of play where you'd just learn way more by playing the game, and learning it for yourself. Plus, you can't do what Demuslim does, he's 'above ladder', he could do some serious troll stuff and get away with it because he's that good. So maybe some of his play is trolling, maybe he does it but doesn't realize it's not viable against an MVP caliber opponent, maybe he does, but either way you are better off PLAYING. 2. You are way too low level to get coaching. All a coach will do is say "yea man just do this build ezpz get masters pay me $20" or "build probes, build pylons". Get a coach once you hit high masters. Or I mean go for it, it's your money, it's only a bit of time. But you really don't need a coach. You just need to know how to be critical of yourself, and understand you macro like total shit. Because unless you are high masters, it's true that you actually macro like total shit. Myself included (mid masters). 3. You want to play. Maybe join a chat channel and ask to play better people than you, but focus more on playing, not joining social groups. 4. You can do whatever builds you want. It's your macro that's a problem. In short, you need to PLAY more. Get off the forums. Completely disassociate from every tournament, every vod, every pro, every stream. I strongly recommend, that if you want to hit masters, you should not watch any tournaments or anything or even visit reddit or TL (especially reddit). Just get out there and play dude. Masters really isn't high level at all, and even if it was, you are just holding yourself back by not playing. I guarentee you, you play 2,000 games, you'll easily be masters. I wish I could do this, but I get 'fatigued' if I play too many games, or a longer (20 minutes+) intense game. I know it's strictly on the mind, but I can't seem to play more than a few games a session without getting tired. It's getting better slowly, since I'm pushing myself to play slightly more each session (usually), but it's still a problem that I hope I can fix. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On February 16 2012 11:15 Fencer710 wrote: You never really know if you can or can't get to masters until you try. I didn't know that in less than a year, I could go straight from bronze>masters. Background doesn't matter too much if you're focused on improving, though it will give you a boost. I actually did play RTS games before SC2, though none quite like this one. They were Majesty, Majesty Gold Edition, Star Wars Empire at War, and the Empire at War Forces of Corruption expansion. Oh yeah, I also did cheeze from Bronze>Platinum; the 6-rax all-in. After that, I started doing more standard builds, usually macro oriented. So lets see, Season 1: Bronze. Mostly played Custom games, didn't know about the pro scene or teamliquid. Season 2: Top 2 gold. I have discovered HuskyStarcraft and Liquid TLO's 6 rax. Season 3: Top 1 Platinum. Discovered Day9 and his awesomeness. Season 4: Diamond. Started watching Day9 a lot more, rather than HuskyStarcraft. Season 5: Top 2 Diamond. Switched hotkey setups from Standard to Optimus 1.3, had a slight tilt period because of that. Season 6 so far: Master league, refining builds and attempting to not get supply blocked. I also didn't play very many games during all this; only a few hundred total. Fencer you're my bro but I think it's worth noting that breaking this stuff down by season isn't helpful. I haven't really improved in Season 5 but I only played like 20 games! In fact, I think that's a flaw in the OP as well. Look at it this way, lets say from seasons 5 through 8 you play: S5: 300 games S6: 300 games S7: 50 games S8: 50 games And in season 5 you go from Gold to Plat, and in Season 6 you go from Plat to Diamond. Then in Seasons 7 and 8 you get stuck in diamond. Have you peaked? No, you're playing way less now (though still like playing a game every day), it'll take a long time to get better like that. You could like go a week without playing a TvZ without even noticing! These things take times and tons of games. Don't watch streams. Pick some standard builds and play like a beast. Macro like a mofo and crush your opponents under the weight of your massive armies! Make their women cry and their children ophans! Nobody became a tennis champ by sitting at home and watching wimbledon | ||
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CluEleSs_UK
United Kingdom583 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On February 16 2012 11:15 Fencer710 wrote: EDIT: This is actually what happened to me. Though, I did spend a lot of time reading forums and watching VOD's. I did notice that you improve faster if you do a mix between the two, and sometimes after having a tilt, playing or doing something else and then coming back for a few games worked wonders. I got all the way into gold league by doing the following build every matchup, every map: 9 supply depot 10 barracks Add 3 more barracks as you get minerals (my reasoning is by delaying my OC I get an "extra" barracks) make your CC into an OC make 30 marines do not cut any scvs except by accident attack-move with your marines, do not pull scvs or anything I was on a track-pad at the time, and it was a macbook track-pad, so it didn't have right-click functionality. There was gonna be no splitting, no stutter stepping, nothing. My computer had about a full second of latency due to how underpowered it was. I had never heard of TL, or watched any professional streams, or anything like that. My entire build is based on the idea that with constant production of marines i could have a bigger army than my opponent who would be trying to manage complicated things like "vespene gas"-- by doing a minerals only build, I can make my army stronger than his more easily even though his strategy might be better. I'd be ahead in food and have a larger army, large enough to overwhelm the defender's advantage more often than not, just because all I did was focus on making marines, scvs, and supply depots. In a very specific sense, this was a macrostomp. The point I'm trying to get across is that macro is important | ||
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