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[H][D] Can 'anyone' be Masters? - Page 6
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LeakyBucket
Canada76 Posts
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
Really, anyone who's played 3k games is just going to be a beast, and at least mid-masters. I assure you, if you play a bunch of games, you will figure out on your own how to beat all-ins, how to play a macro game, and how to deal with crazy situations. Watching VODs and tournaments and posting on the forum, only slows you down. You need to play. There's a reason why bronzes who have watched every pro game can't get out of bronze. It's strictly and only because they don't play enough. In the big picture, watching tournament games won't help your game. | ||
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trias_e
United States520 Posts
Really, anyone who's played 3k games is just going to be a beast, and at least mid-masters. I have 1.5k wins, 3k played, and played a shitton in the beta (1k games played or so in total). Peaked at top diamond and could never break through. I try hard when I play, put effort into my builds and understanding the game, and don't have any handicaps that I know of. I am older and have zero RTS experience before SC2. Top of diamond has been an absolute brick wall for me. Players that I used to beat easily got into masters with less games played. I just stopped improving for some reason. Just playing games doesn't work for everyone. | ||
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SgtCoDFish
United Kingdom1520 Posts
I think any given person who is able-bodied and able-minded can reach masters if they invest enough time into the game. The thing is, the amount of time you need to invest varies massively from person to person, and depends on lots of things like whether you have help from a friend or coach, "natural talent", age, the time you put into studying replays and streams, etc. This is where the problem lies I think for some people: some 40yo guy who's completely new to rts and is going at it alone might take a very long time to even get out of bronze (and he might not have the free time available to actually ever get to masters), whereas a 19yo university student with a real life coach and who watches a lot of pro streams can get there much quicker. In other words: anyone can get masters given enough time, but not everyone has enough time to get masters. | ||
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GhostFall
United States830 Posts
The way to break past is pretty unintuitive and you have to fight against risk/reward. Basically, if you ever plateau its because you're getting too comfortable doing your thing. You need to do some other style of play. Most likely you will lose tons of a games and you might even drop a division. But then you will improve with that style again, and as you approach your goal, you'll be able to break past it easier. | ||
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caneras
433 Posts
I do think that anyone can get to Master League eventually. Some people are naturally better at the game than others, but I think with time, any player can climb the ladder and reach the higher leagues. Especially with numerous games a day and a good mind set and work ethic going into play sessions, a player can improve rapidly. The biggest problem with players that are just starting to play or just started to play seriously with the goal of reaching Diamond or Master League is that they have to improve more rapidly than anyone. As I said before, I started playing on release day, and I was awful. I started out in Bronze, but my skill at Starcraft 2 was not that far from the majority of players. To reach Silver, I only had to improve slightly, which came with playing a lot of games. To reach Diamond, I only had to become decent mechanically and know a few builds. For a player to climb the ranks today, he has to improve much more quickly than I did when I started climbing the ladder. He, or she, has to make up for lost time. The game is old enough to where a lot of players are established in their leagues and are slowly, but steadily improving. A new player has to work harder and improve at a quicker rate than the much larger number of players that have been playing for awhile. Reading your OP, I know you've played since Season 1. Regardless of when you start, the best way to climb the ranks in Starcraft 2, or any similar system, requires you to improve at a faster rate than the general trend. The best way to do that is to make effective use of play time. That being said, good luck with whatever your ambitions end up being in SC2! Hopefully my explanation made sense. | ||
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Chairman Ray
United States11903 Posts
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Drowsy
United States4876 Posts
On February 16 2012 11:01 Belial88 wrote: Just get out there and play dude. Masters really isn't high level at all, and even if it was, you are just holding yourself back by not playing. I guarentee you, you play 2,000 games, you'll easily be masters. This is the best way to get to masters. Pick 1 good standard build for each matchup and do it exclusively, adjusting if there's a big balance patch or meta shift. And if you do manage to play 2000 games and find yourself still short of masters, I would try another game, the strategic thinking required by sc2 is too much. Try tic tac toe or something. | ||
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KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
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jayaiwhy
Australia88 Posts
I think if you put some effort, it's possible... | ||
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Nihilnovi
Sweden696 Posts
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ZaplinG
United States3818 Posts
that being said, I still think there is a threshold that you have to peak before you can compete competitively. For sc/bw, that peak was 150-200 or so. For sc2, its much lower since everything is automated... something like 100-120 is completely acceptable | ||
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Rowrin
United States280 Posts
Aaaanyway, started playing starcraft broodwar 2 months before starcraft 2 was released cause my friends shunned me for not knowing what starcraft was. (prior to that I only remember seeing starcraft when my cousin would babysit me when i was little). Placed into silver, was there for like 30 games, learned some strategies online, youtube videos, stuff like that, was gold for like 8 games, then plat for like 100 games. Ended up making diamond a few weeks before master's league was opened for the first time and that was the end of season one. Didn't make masters till midway through season 2. so now directly responding to the OP: When I was in diamond / early masters my apm wasn't great, I was basically 40-50 average apm diamond, 50-60 average apm masters. Currently I'm around 90-100 average apm. I think that most ppl try to hit a weird goal of 100+ apm as soon as possible, when really you need just enough to macro constantly and to watch your army. If you are able to keep producing units, build depots/pylons/lords while looking at your army 90% of the time you should be in diamond. This takes about 40-50 average actions per minute. Where all the other #'s come from is how well you control your army while you macro. Droping, maintaining map control, denying creep, harassing, etc. Most of this I think is just practice and getting your figures to move simply at a thought. For example, when someone types a word like "this" I dont think many ppl think "ok. . . T, then H, then I then S . . . " I just think that this is the word i want to type and instictivly, after much experience of typing, words just flow. Same in starcraft. If you practice enough, some actions that require several steps should become merged into one thought that your hands just carry out and eventually you get faster. now can anyone get to masters? It isn't easy, but if you have the right motivation it isn't too hard. You have to want to challenge yourself and I think have the right mindset. For example, when you lose you cant say things like "oh what my opponent did was just stupid" You have to accept each lose as your fault (witihout being overly critical) and correct mistakes. | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
If you can get diamond, masters is just a matter of games played. Of course every non-masters will say masters is impossible, and every masters will tell you it's easy, but a lot of TL staff and pros and such have said masters is basic macro and quite attainable. Just have some patience. If you've ever been promoted, with 2k games or so you'll be masters. | ||
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Sergio1992
Italy522 Posts
On February 16 2012 17:34 Belial88 wrote: I don't think people realize that low masters is just like diamond. The difference between mid masters and high masters is like diamond to silver, literally high masters can offrace against mid masters and crush them 5 out of 5. Low masters, they can't even touch high masters. That's like catz or destiny or tyler or tlo or any number of foreigner pros, competing against the likes of people who didn't play bw and started in bronze. If you can get diamond, masters is just a matter of games played. Of course every non-masters will say masters is impossible, and every masters will tell you it's easy, but a lot of TL staff and pros and such have said masters is basic macro and quite attainable. Just have some patience. If you've ever been promoted, with 2k games or so you'll be masters. thanks, you kinda relieved me with your words. A shame that I could not reach master within 60 games and I quit sc2, because of my really bad connection. | ||
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Lasbike
France2888 Posts
On February 16 2012 14:47 trias_e wrote: I have 1.5k wins, 3k played, and played a shitton in the beta (1k games played or so in total). Peaked at top diamond and could never break through. I try hard when I play, put effort into my builds and understanding the game, and don't have any handicaps that I know of. I am older and have zero RTS experience before SC2. Top of diamond has been an absolute brick wall for me. Players that I used to beat easily got into masters with less games played. I just stopped improving for some reason. Just playing games doesn't work for everyone. Thank god, exactly like me. I just can't get into master league. (PS : I'm EU, high diamond 4 times in a row) | ||
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Jumonji
France60 Posts
That's my profile, never played rts before (except of some casually played with only mouse games) took me five season to get to master. Don't lost hope, keep playing at your rate. I'm sure everyone can be master , believe me i'm a console player since like 18 y and Pc player since 5 ^^ | ||
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Kanaz
Denmark658 Posts
Basicly after 2 months of grinding games i got to the highest league (Plat, back then) and then diamond came and i got insta promoted. Same goes when masters come. Basicly i havent been playing much the last 6 months. Maybe 100 games in total - which leads to my acc got reset and i had to play 5 placement games again. I won all of them, even tho i was really rusty, and got placed in diamond. I got all back that i lost in those 6 months in 4 days and got promoted to masters again right before ladder lock. So to sum up, it's possible for everybody to get in masters i'd say, it's really about basic skills - Macro, scout, builds. I used 3 builds in those 3 days, one for each race. Master a build against every race and you will hammer through the ladder eventually. | ||
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Crakalaka
United States31 Posts
If you've played 2000+ games, that means you've invested about 2000x10,0=20,000 hours if I did the math correctly. If you've invested 20,000 hours in playing, you must be aware of your surroundings by now. If not, you will forever stay a bad player because that many hours invested in playing is just insane and should make any gamer golden. You must take advantage of the time you're apparently wasting. | ||
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Oboeman
Canada3980 Posts
I'm in masters with pretty damn low apm. I'm slow. I don't move fast. I hear a lot of gold to plat players saying they can't advance because they are too slow, yet they have higher apm than I do. You have to be reasonably quick, but it's still mostly a game of the brain, and usually it's your thoughts that are slowing you down, not your hands. If you can internalize most of your decisions, your hands perform the actions themselves, and your brainpower is free to think about other things. It's important to try to learn, not just grind games blindly, and you'll get there a lot faster if more of your focus is on macro rather than unit composition. Instead of thinking about whether you should have made roaches or baneling, think about when you get that next overlord, or how quickly you can spend your larva. The strategy stuff kind of comes into place on its own, but the macro needs work. Most importantly, there is no such thing as imbalance. If you think about imbalance you are admitting defeat, rather than searching for a way to move forward. | ||
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