[H][D] Can 'anyone' be Masters? - Page 11
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Nuclease
United States1049 Posts
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
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LaM
United States1321 Posts
edit/ This is not the right thread. lmao. | ||
Average Joe
21 Posts
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terrantosaur
42 Posts
So this got me thinking about whether there could be some sort of anamoly in the league system. Say someone had a bit of experience when the game was first released and immediately got into the top league at that time but didn't really play much thereafter. Could they still be ranked Diamond or even Master now? It would be fascinating to find such a person and get them to start a new account and see whether they couls immediately got back to their current league and level - or whether they could detect a massively better standard in some of the lower leagues than they were expecting... Other than the outliers in general the differences feel 'manageable' which I wasn't expecting. Another comment: people talk about learning from your losses... well I can say that when you get absolutely OWNED it is all the adjectives above but I also learnt more from those games than so many others when much more marginal things cost me. So, for those of you in a similar position to me, I do think that finding some way to play against a couple of say Masters level players will probably accelerate your development. Thanks too for all the PMs I've had offering me help. This site is just awesome and I'm pretty stunned that so many people have been kind enough to offer me help. Simon | ||
MXfive
United Kingdom19 Posts
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Chutoro
New Zealand95 Posts
On February 16 2012 13:41 Belial88 wrote: There's no such thing as high or low Platinum, due to how the ranking system works. Only the 'top' rank is where points/ranking mean anything, since low level people can be stuck in Plat due to inaccurate MMR, or and 'high' people just being promoted. I would also argue that if you played instead of watching pros and streams, you would be higher ranked. That's my whole point - I hardly ever watch pros and streams. 95% of my SC2 time is just playing. I am a perfect case study. It's not exactly a convincing argument when you are saying "Look how successful I am! I a pizza delivery driver!" I don't think you are understanding me. I'm saying nothing of the kind. I am saying that I am unsuccessful because I'm only Platinum after 1500 games. (At least by TL standards, which are my standards as well or I wouldn't be here). Also, I'm pretty sure everyone who's played 2,000 games and is somewhat matured (ie not 13 years old, no handicap) is masters. If the number is wrong, the number is wrong, but you play 10,000 games, you WILL be masters. Someone else can say more accurately what the number is that 99% of people hit masters once having played that many games, but you get my point, and it's not exactly that many games. I'd also hazard that, besides BW experience and such, like 90% of people hit masters in roughly the same number of games. It is hard to get a source for this stat, but we could look at the number of players who have won at least 300 games in the most recent season for example, which SC2Ranks can tell us. I suspect most of these would have >2000 games total overall, certainly if they've been playing at the same rate for a while. There were: 33 players worldwide in GM with >300 wins last season (http://www.sc2ranks.com/ranks/all/grandmaster/1/all/wins) 154 players worldwide in Masters with >300 wins last season (http://www.sc2ranks.com/ranks/all/master/1/all/wins/100) 123 players in Diamond with >300 wins (http://www.sc2ranks.com/ranks/all/diamond/1/all/wins/100) 125 players in Platinum with >300 wins (http://www.sc2ranks.com/ranks/all/platinum/1/all/wins/100) 136 players in Gold with >300 wins (http://www.sc2ranks.com/ranks/all/gold/1/all/wins/100) 150 players in Silver with >300 wins (http://www.sc2ranks.com/ranks/all/silver/1/all/wins/100) 783 players in Bronze with >300 wins (http://www.sc2ranks.com/ranks/all/bronze/1/all/wins/700) I wouldn't put too much stock in the Bronze number as I suspect most of them are portrait farmers, but even leaving them out, that means that 26% of the players with >300 wins above Silver are Masters or higher. Granted that's a much bigger number than 2% (total Masters population) but it's way short of the 99% figure you are talking about. I think there is definite evidence that playing a lot of games tends to improve people's rating on average, but (in my opinion) there is also pretty clear evidence that many SC2 players 'cap out' at a particular rating no matter how many games they play. Maybe you don't happen to be among them, but they are still a pretty significant percentage of the overall population. Granted this isn't a perfect data set, but it is consistent with my own experience - maybe every 2nd or 3rd opponent I get on ladder in Platinum has 700 to 1000 total league wins, meaning they aren't far off your 2000 games number. There are a lot more of us out there than you think, and your experience of how easy it is to reach Masters is not typical. I also think that over 99% of the people who played BW ICCUP, are at least Masters. That just goes to show that Masters ain't no thing. I'm not saying BW pros, I'm just saying anyone who even played BW. I mean I was bronze at one point, zero RTS history. Diamond, is definitely something that ANYONE can achieve, even non-gamers. If you are in Plat, that's just lack of games put under your belt. I'm not trying to be insulting, but play a good 1,000 games, you'll be diamond. You aren't far from it as it is anyways. I already told you in my first post that I had played around 1450 ladder games in total, and I'm nowhere near Diamond. By the way, I am not disputing the premise that anyone CAN reach Diamond or Masters (if I didn't believe that, I probably wouldn't still be playing). I just don't think that most do in practice, and (for most people) I don't think that "just play more games" is the answer. | ||
DreamChaser
1649 Posts
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Charon1979
Austria317 Posts
But i feel i cant improve any more. I used to play often (got my 1000 wins in S3) but was unable to improve. I still die to 2 base all-ins, i still have problems scouting, i still habe problems attacking, hellion expand literally kills me and drops/small zealot warpins make me fall apart. I see them, in theory i know how to handle it but i lack the reaction. | ||
shivver
United States232 Posts
I practice with a grandmaster and have been since I was platinum and just having the knowledge of what to do and what not to do is really what it all came down too. It doesn't matter if you don't miss a single scv up to 70, and never get supply blocked etc. etc. if you're doing small things you don't realize that are giving away your position, you're still going to lose. I would advise lessons from someone that is very good at explaining the game, finding that person is the hard part. | ||
Poopi
France12580 Posts
On February 17 2012 07:39 Kaitokid wrote: 3h a day is actually a lot. Best use of those 3h would probably be watching like 1 Terran replay/stream game of a player whos good and you like and then spam laddergames without interruption. Watch replays of yourself losing when you don't know what your opponent did, but in my opinion the statistics after the game already tell a lot... Achieving average masters level is extremely easy and I am certain anyone can do it even without a lot of effort. Yeah I always wondered why everyone wants to watch replays of lost games on ladder (Of course it would be necessary to watch it for pro in tourney play) despite the fact that graph + what you remember of the game and you know when and why you got behind :x | ||
Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
On February 18 2012 00:37 Poopi wrote: Yeah I always wondered why everyone wants to watch replays of lost games on ladder (Of course it would be necessary to watch it for pro in tourney play) despite the fact that graph + what you remember of the game and you know when and why you got behind :x Watching a replay is a good tool imo if you don't know why you lost. Like, if you obviously didn't macro well or move-commanded your army then I could see how it's not necessary, but if you don't know how you lost, easiest way to find out and not make that mistake in the future is to go through the replay. | ||
Heweree
United Kingdom497 Posts
I was pretty good at wc3, I achieved Master in less than 150 wins in 1v1. Nowadays I can play only one month out of 4, and the month I can play I play like 2-3 games average. I'm still mid master level. The experience in RTS allowed me to have some automatisms, and my relative young age makes it easier to "muscle" memorize. It's like any sport, starting it late makes it way harder. But if you achieve master at 38 yo, gratz ! And even though the general TL mindset is : there is no such thing like talent, only hardwork. I don't believe it at all, they are things you are more or less gifted for. For example I can't fuckin draw, even when I was little. I'm a really bad bad musician as well. But for sc2, most of the guys at my level have something like 3-4 times my number games. And I don't watch all my replays like a mad man. Actually I just watch the replays when I win, to congratulate myself xD | ||
Clazziquai10
Singapore1949 Posts
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Forbidden17
666 Posts
On February 18 2012 02:47 Clazziquai10 wrote: Lol I have 1.5k wins and abt 3k games played and im diamond which probably means you're making the same mistakes every game without knowing. Ask someone better than you to watch your replays! Or get a coach etc. | ||
perser84
Germany399 Posts
all you need are for each match up a good built and you need to execute properly my advice is pratice partners because they have intel of their races that you dont so you will know what for example zerg or terran is afraid of what you should exploit and what not your problem is you do something wrong most of the time like macro or not execute your built well watch stream from good players and learn from them and i dont mean super pros gm/master level is enough | ||
Drorctopus
Netherlands135 Posts
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Westman
Sweden27 Posts
After some time, I was demoted to Silver. That's when I started watching streams/tournaments/shows about sc2. I have been steadily improving since and just made it into Master this season. I play an average of 7games/week but it depends on school and such. To answer your question: If you want to improve, and take it serious, there should be no problem of you making it into master! | ||
Belial88
United States5217 Posts
On February 18 2012 02:47 Clazziquai10 wrote: Lol I have 1.5k wins and abt 3k games played and im diamond What area? How old are you? Do you get matched against masters at all? I'm sure you'll be masters when you hit 2k. | ||
joyeaux
United States169 Posts
On February 16 2012 03:52 SoulWager wrote: If you have two functioning limbs, one functioning eye, and a functioning brain, you can be masters at sc2. You forgot "practice" | ||
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