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Recently, Day 9 + Zenio have showed the world that the Hydra may not be a useless unit. The hydra is a situational unit, decent vs a wide range of units, proving that the hydra has a place in the zvp mid game.
However, what about zvt? Does the Hydra have a place in this match up?
If so, when?
This has been my quest for the past few weeks. Forcing them to work!
I will admit that I have lost quite a few games forcing hydras into zvt.
However, I have had alot of really amusing moments too.
EDIT: (I have been asked to share some of my thoughts behind using hydras during ZVT. I.E When, how, why)
(In the process of updating this now)
RE: EDIT: These are all ladder games in NA Master League.
RE RE: EDIT: Later today I will post a few replays + find some hydra vs mech related shinanigans + Added a "so far, pro's and con's"
RE RE RE EDIT: I have uploaded two replays. Additionally, I am gathering replays on Hydra vs Mech.
http://drop.sc/112621 (Hydra counter attack to non-standard play)
http://drop.sc/112623 (Hydra/Roach/Ling/Bane Deathball counter attack while defending two drops)
Hydras!!!!!!!
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/q1nPd.jpg)
Are they useless patches of blood and flesh that marines and tanks walk and roll over?
No
Hydras, question mark.... Yes
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/A6BaC.jpg)
The first thing I have noticed is, terrans are always shocked by hydras. Almost if they are some secret ninja unit that you get from a blizzard code.
Who remembers "Glittering prizes?"
Black sheep wall!
EDIT: Something for nothing,
Your base are belong to us
What were some of the others...?
Terran players think I'm insane! . . . I am
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Yb51T.jpg)
I get alot of ... well not BM really. But amusing comments just the same. Of course this usually happens when you are doing something that is very different from the norm.
Hydra Pro's
1. Good vs strange unit comps + cheesy all in builds, that incorperate banshee's, with some sort of murader, ect ect
2. Can kite on creep well
3. good at focus fireing units during battle, Drops ships or: (like a 1 base BC rush for example)
4. Pairs very nicely with all other zerg units
Hydra Con's
1. Expensive.
2. Not good by their lonesome, these are not all purpose shock troops, these are all purpose support troops
3. Not that hot vs Marine tank - unless you have good positioning + banelings Or/And lings
A. Much higher degree of skill required for attacking army positioning + defense.
B. Requires an excellent, precise build order.
C. Can not over drone
Deathball Mixer: Gin and Tonic
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1X1D7.jpg)
Lets first talk about strategy. Specically, making a new strategy work.
1. You must have clear goals in mind. Not ---> I want to max on this unit lawl!
2. I personally choose to focus on my mid game openings + goals
a. fully saturate two bases,
b. Don't over drone
c. place your third down for bait ----> and saturate for the end of the midgame
3. Use the small advantages you gain from battle to continue droning/expanding.
4.. Dont let the terran have a third base up and running.... EVER -----> unless you already have 4 bases saturated.
This is the goal that really shapes my mid build orders, and tech routes.
(this is now the time to refill your drink)
"Run to the hills! Run for your lives!" --Iron Maiden
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/pvVAJ.jpg)
no - these are not brood war hydras, why are you running???
Terrans dont like it when you have a third base up. It drives them crazy.
So normally they will have a Stim/Tank push to stop it.
Things you need to know about hydras:
1. They are horrible with out tanking units.
a. slings are good
b. speed roaches are also good.
2. Dont attack with out tanking units.... if you can.
3. With tanking units they can actually do something
A. if you add banelings into the mix, (AWESOME) hydra's DPS is great clean up
B. Yes you can call your hydras brooms if you want.
Drops vs a ground zerg
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8hYUW.jpg)
Terran players love to drop into your main - or any base for that matter.
1. to of course do eco damges.
2. to distract you from their main push
where is the muta when you need them..... oh wait...
1. Good OL spread is really the key. I suggest spreading OL to your main's outter rim + to your thirds as well.
also.
2. spread to the corners of the map too.
3. Have a pack of units, on a different hot key to deal with the drops
4. Once your third or 4th are up. you will need another anti drop party.
Ahoy! Nom Nom
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/EV7MR.jpg)
here is a good example of owning a drop ---> Terran's do not like this very much
No can has CC, MINE
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/i78lT.jpg)
Roach + Sling + Baneling's will normally look into the sky and shed a few tears here.
OK. So what tech should we choose to attack a third OR/AND stop a timing push?
1. +1 Armor
a. To save gas for more tech
b. To allow your tanking units to live longer
c. Hydra's already do alot of DPS. they just need to live longer
2. Bane speed
a. For flacking attacks
b. For attacking kiting rines
3. Roach speed
a. Really adds to their effectiveness
4. sling speed
5. Hydra den. + range
6. Burrow
a. you are going to bury a ling at EVERY expansion. this will buy you the time you need to get into position
These upgrades are the ones you need in the mid game. Of course you will need to cut some of them for terran cheese.
also, once you get your third up and running will be the time to get more evo chambers + infestors.
Its a trap! --Akbar
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6AGb1.jpg)
Im going to hydrabeatdown seven shades of.....
Wait.... FML
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/gsGaA.jpg)
This is why you need tanking units. Mother of god!
I wish I had that gas back.....
Hydra + Infester = More gin and tonic
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/UjZT9.jpg)
In the beginning of the late game. Hydra + Infestor is very nice support for your army.
This is actually quite nice. Your infesters will have much more energy for the rest of the terran army while the hydras snipe those tasty drop ships. NOMNOMNOM
I have only begun my Hydra pilgrimage!
Where will the path take me?!
maybe: Hydra ZVZ midgame?
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/84gmv.jpg)
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I would love to make this into a blog - However I think I might be either:
1. Drunk
2. To TL noob
To make this into a Blog.
Either way. TL discussion will do nicely.
Enjoy!
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I think the only places hydras can shine are where it can do things the roach cannot.
vs marine seige tank... it can hit medivacs. that's all. It's worse for flanks since it's slowness. Takes more gas so that means less infestor/banes... it can't fight stim marines head on (much like roaches) It's increased range doesn't really do much vs seige mode.
vs. toss. it can defend air! It can fight blink stalkers better! It's terrible against colossus  It takes up 3 supply. booo
vs zerg. We already have it's uses down. I dont think there's a lack of hydras currently in zvz.
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Looks like I'm going to have to stop medivac dropping you from now on. Hydras...the new threat to my dropships...
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I wonder if this will turn into a NaDa's Body thread for me...
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Very interesting, i love hydras and think they're one of the coolest looking units lol. But this is just pictures of you using hydras rofl, give information/build orders/specific tactics and strategies/timings and more explained situations and im sure this post will be more popular ^^
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On February 14 2012 13:01 fighter2_40 wrote:I think the only places hydras can shine are where it can do things the roach cannot. vs marine seige tank... it can hit medivacs. that's all. It's worse for flanks since it's slowness. Takes more gas so that means less infestor/banes... it can't fight stim marines head on (much like roaches) It's increased range doesn't really do much vs seige mode. vs. toss. it can defend air! It can fight blink stalkers better! It's terrible against colossus It takes up 3 supply. booo vs zerg. We already have it's uses down. I dont think there's a lack of hydras currently in zvz.
They are very slow, so I must plan my prong attacks, and defense very carefully. Which is much harder, and more fun IMO.
And I dont go infester/BL in the endgame anyway.
Now you are right about zvz. However usually one goes +1/+1 roaches (or +2) with hydra...
Or,
Someone goes muta. then the other guy guys hydras.
What im talking about is opening the midgame with hydras. I was doing that all day today actually.
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On February 14 2012 13:05 HornyHydra wrote:
I wonder if this will turn into a NaDa's Body thread for me...
lmao!
I should PM Nada and ask if he is still interested.
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On February 14 2012 13:02 psp219 wrote:
Looks like I'm going to have to stop medivac dropping you from now on. Hydras...the new threat to my dropships...
<3
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On February 14 2012 13:05 Kiri wrote:
Very interesting, i love hydras and think they're one of the coolest looking units lol. But this is just pictures of you using hydras rofl, give information/build orders/specific tactics and strategies/timings and more explained situations and im sure this post will be more popular ^^
I agree with you. If people are interested ill do just that.
Right now I just want to show the world that I am trying to make them work, (with success ill add)
and just show the good, the bad, and the really ugly
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Haha, cool pictures. I love the one where your "trap" failed. Kudos to you for trying to make them work.
As for whether or not they are viable in ZvT. I think not, at least not at a high level of play (although I do remember seeing Violet go roach/hydra in ZvT a couple of times on his stream some time back).
Here are my reasons:
1) Hydras are weak/ not ideal against any standard terran composition. (marine tank > hydras; mech > hydras)
2) They offer no harassment potential, like mutas do. (unless you want to do a hydra run-by into the main)
3) Cannot defend drops well (despite your screenshot). I mean, they won't even catch up to marines if they are in your in
your main and repositioning them is a pain.
4) They're SC2 Hydras. Let's get real here.
Perhaps I just have no foresight or creativity, though. Perhaps 5 years down the line they're going to be the most imba unit in the matchup.
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12698 Posts
haha, I still remember when I first started, I went roache hydra every match up.
That being said, those were the days when most people did that anyway.
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i used hydras vs mass thors before haha it's quite good
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That's funny, good job on trying to find new places for the metagame to go!
I would love to read more of this style of post! =D
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On February 14 2012 13:35 Dright wrote:
That's funny, good job on trying to find new places for the metagame to go!
I would love to read more of this style of post! =D
Thank you! I will try my best to do so!
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I've tried making hydras work, but I keep finding that anything they are good at, another unit is better at it.
There are only 2 ground units, that I know of, where the hydra is better than a roach vs; the Immortal and the Marauder. I wouldn't recommend using hydras vs immortals, since most likely colossus are following, and when a terran is going Marauders vs zerg usually it's because they also have blue flame hellions, and those RAPE hydras.
So that just leave hydras vs air units. I feel that queens are just outright better. Queens don't require any gas, they have more than twice the hit points plus are also psionic. Queens also out range hydra vs air by 2(1 after 150/150 upgrade range upgrade for hydras) and are able to heal buildings that are getting sniped. the only way that hydras slight edge out queens at is move speed, queens have a speed of 0.94/2.5 (off creep/on creep) vs the hydra's 2.25/3.37.
anyway, those are my thoughts 
Edited for grammer
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Ok I have added alot more insight to my pics. Please tell me if this enhances this post
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almost any unit works when you have a large enough economic lead. remember you have to invest in range attack, hydra tech, and hydra range. late game zerg requires melee upgrades so generaly its better to use melee ground army and invest your gas into units such as infestors or mutas. i imagine hydras could support roaches decently versus mech though.
i think the main reason hydras are not used in ZvT is because lings and banelings are so effective vers tank marine that melee upgrades are definatly the priority. any army could be slightly improved with a small amount of hdyras but that is a lot of gas to invest in tech which could be more effective in either mutas/infestor/hive
edit; i went down a path of using tons of hydras in platinum and ive won plenty of ZvT with them but i still put that down to better macro. I use hydras in almost every ZvP i love hydras but i dont have a place for them in my ZvT. ZvZ i go muta ling bane eventualy ultras infestors since the infestor nerf so i dont know about the best way to use them in ZvZ.
offtopic but if i see hydras in response to my mutas in ZvZ i just get banespeed +1+1 ground and go kill them
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NVM JUST IGNORE good pictures
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EPT
