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(D) The Hydra Pilgrimage Part 1 - Page 6
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EndOfLineTv
United States741 Posts
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Uranium
United States1077 Posts
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EndOfLineTv
United States741 Posts
On February 16 2012 02:40 Uranium wrote: Roach hydra is completely viable in ZvZ and ZvP. Trying to force hydras into ZvT will just get you killed though. In ZvT banelings do a better job of killing ground units and mutas are better at handling air. I think you missed the point of the OP friend | ||
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HaXXspetten
Sweden15718 Posts
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EndOfLineTv
United States741 Posts
On February 16 2012 06:06 HaXXspetten wrote: well it's a start, if anything HotS will hopefully be their final salvation This is actually a good a point. I will be supre prepared for HOTS! :D | ||
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Decendos
Germany1338 Posts
personally i am going for: 9 ovi 15 hatch 15 pool 17 ovi 4 lings + double queen 25-26 ovi 5:00 spine natural 3rd und 4th queen insta after first 2 queens 5:30 spine natural 38-42 all 4 gas evo chamber 1. 100 gas lingspeed 2. 100 gas lair 3. 150 gas +1 carapace as soon as lair is done: ovispeed, hydra den, infestation pit hydra range + PG + 8 hydras, add infestors till 6 then hydras to 15. mass ling + 2nd evo how to play it: as soon as your 3rd and 4th queen is out: creep your way forward with the 2nd spine + 2 queens + first spine defending it. creep forward to your 3rd and take it asap. add makrohatch as soon as you have the minerals for it. when your 3rd is finished dont take your 5th and 6th gas instantly and go for mass lings and drones instead since you will have enough hydras and infestors then but are mineral starved. just played it 5 times (won 5 times :D, midmaster) so there is definetly a lot of space to do it better. eventually you need a blingnest and the timings can be better of coure  | ||
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EndOfLineTv
United States741 Posts
On February 17 2012 05:08 Decendos wrote: it would be nice if you add a BO to your OP. personally i am going for: 9 ovi 15 hatch 15 pool 17 ovi 4 lings + double queen 25-26 ovi 5:00 spine natural 3rd und 4th queen insta after first 2 queens 5:30 spine natural 38-42 all 4 gas evo chamber 1. 100 gas lingspeed 2. 100 gas lair 3. 150 gas +1 carapace as soon as lair is done: ovispeed, hydra den, infestation pit hydra range + PG + 8 hydras, add infestors till 6 then hydras to 15. mass ling + 2nd evo how to play it: as soon as your 3rd and 4th queen is out: creep your way forward with the 2nd spine + 2 queens + first spine defending it. creep forward to your 3rd and take it asap. add makrohatch as soon as you have the minerals for it. when your 3rd is finished dont take your 5th and 6th gas instantly and go for mass lings and drones instead since you will have enough hydras and infestors then but are mineral starved. just played it 5 times (won 5 times :D, midmaster) so there is definetly a lot of space to do it better. eventually you need a blingnest and the timings can be better of coure Awesome!! Love it. Your build order is the one I use when I scout gasless tworax. Ill add a BO | ||
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Bastilol
Germany129 Posts
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VashTS
United States1675 Posts
On February 17 2012 06:56 Bastilol wrote: Hydras are actually better against Ultras than Roaches from my experience so thats one more use of them atleast in ZvZ Hydras have better DPS and aren't Armored. | ||
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Bastilol
Germany129 Posts
On February 17 2012 06:59 VashTS wrote: Hydras have better DPS and aren't Armored. Also they take less damage from a Fungal and have more Range so you can Focus Fire the Ultras way better than with Roaches imo | ||
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Vaporized
United States1471 Posts
sometimes (marine/tank) it would be better to not have hydras, but if youre going to play the odds hydras will work against the majority of terran strats i feel. if you havent ever tried it, give bling ling muta a break for one night and use hydras. its also fun, hydras cost 100\50 which is relatively cheap compared to infestors/mutas/t3. you can mass a shitload of ling bling hydra in surprisingly quick fashion. it feels more like the zerg i remember. | ||
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EndOfLineTv
United States741 Posts
1. To let you know that I am not raving mad like you all thought I was. TY stephano. lol 2. I think most of you recent meta gamers are missing the real reason why roach hydra is so effective. I have personally done hundreds of zvt with roach hydra. The real strength of the build is the 1/1 speed roach timing attack when the terran goes 3 oc with helion shee. Basically, that terran build is very greedy and is a meta game build vs ling infester, or ling muta. the 1/1 roaches WILL do damage vs terran if they do this build, period. If they do 3 oc, helion shee, into mech, you will instant win. If they do 3 oc helion shee, into bio, you will deny the third, and do some damage, and go into the late game. If they do 3 oc MMM, you will be behind, unless you get a sexy engagement. 3. With this build play you are extending your mid game, and delaying your late game. This means you need to use this unit comp to get new bases and or cause damage for it to work. One also needs to trade alot. You can not allow the terran to max out on 3 bases, or you will lose your lead, and or fall behind. | ||
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IBM
United States3 Posts
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EndOfLineTv
United States741 Posts
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lhr0909
United States562 Posts
http://www.twitch.tv/lonestarclash/b/339339239 Game starts at the 4:56:00 mark | ||
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Bahku
United States182 Posts
So when you buy a hydra, what you're really buying is two marines, paying an extra 50 gas, it's slower, and has no combat shields/stim pack upgrades. IMO it's pretty silly that there's almost no advantages whatsoever of hydras vs marines, and a ton of disadvantages. The only advantage I can think of is a slightly higher range, and the fact that it's one medium-health unit instead of two low-health units, so it's a little stronger against splash damage. And they can burrow. Probably the strongest advantage is that they can practically be produced 20 at a time unlike marines. Still seems way underpowered to me though. Even with the speed upgrade in HotS, I can't think of a reason you would get hydras against the stimming, combat shielded, cheaper marines. IMO they need some sort of buff that lets them do something very well that marines can't do better. | ||
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bankobauss
204 Posts
On January 13 2013 09:04 Bahku wrote: I don't think hydras will ever work in ZvT. I'm a noob, but just looking at it "on paper," I don't see it. Compare them to marines: One hydra costs the same as two marines AND an extra 50 gas. It just so happens that a hydra is also exactly twice as damaging, and has twice as much health as two marines. So when you buy a hydra, what you're really buying is two marines, paying an extra 50 gas, it's slower, and has no combat shields/stim pack upgrades. IMO it's pretty silly that there's almost no advantages whatsoever of hydras vs marines, and a ton of disadvantages. The only advantage I can think of is a slightly higher range, and the fact that it's one medium-health unit instead of two low-health units, so it's a little stronger against splash damage. And they can burrow. Probably the strongest advantage is that they can practically be produced 20 at a time unlike marines. Still seems way underpowered to me though. Even with the speed upgrade in HotS, I can't think of a reason you would get hydras against the stimming, combat shielded, cheaper marines. IMO they need some sort of buff that lets them do something very well that marines can't do better. I agree with your conclusion that hydras are just "more expensive marines" however, I actually use it to bring about a different train of thought. Yup, hydras are pretty much marines, however at the same time if zerg was allowed to make marines wouldnt that be kinda OP. Terrans dont have ultralisks, terrans dont have broodlords, terrans dont have that kind of super beeftank ground superiority. but zerg does. so if zerg could make marines that would be kinda wow when combined with all that If you view it in that light, hydras can shine if you use them for their very limited role in the matchup. stephano has shown hydras can be powerful in limited roles in the matchup from as much as early game to lategame. Some could say that terrans simply havent "figured it out yet" however fine lets just move to the ultimate lategame scenario I believe super lategame in the ultimate lategame scenario when zerg has a broodlord/infestor/ultralisk/corrupter/queen army, I believe EVEN in this super lategame scenario hydras can be useful. If you add 6 hydras to your army, thats 12food, And I garuntee those 6 hydras will be outputting INSANE amounts of DPS and they will be left relatively untouched as the terran is dealing with every other aspect of your massive army. So even in that super ultimate lategame scenario, hydras have a reason to be made, those 12food in hydras is incredibly powerful in the zerg army and the DPS they are outputting is probably "worth" around 20food. So i guess my point is, in that super ultimate lategame scenario I believe hydras do have, small as it may be, a purpose and a reason to be made. And I feel as you move outwards from that super lategame scenario and focus on other areas of the game/match, I believe as long as you can prove a unit has a purpose / viability in the super-lategame then that pretty much means there is probably other small viabilities that exist for that unit in other stages of the game, because if its useful in the ultra lategame (as ive proved) then the unit cant be "all that bad" in my opinion. sure, hydras are just more expensive marines, i agree with you there however, on the flipside, if zergs could make marines that would be overpowered. So in a way, maybe thats the idea you should look at in order to figure out the true fate of hydras. maybe they arent as useless as we once thought | ||
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Bahku
United States182 Posts
On January 13 2013 09:54 bankobauss wrote: snip Haha, reminds me of an FFA I played a few days ago where I neural'd an SCV when I was so far ahead, then almost died because I sacced my army and ran out of gas. Literally, the thing that saved me was that I could produce marines as a zerg player, and it was INSANE good. I ran out of anti-air and gas so I thought my BL's were as good as dead, not true when you can just flood the ultra-versatile rines with excess minerals :p So yeah, I see what you're saying: One of the strengths of the hydralisk is simply the synergy that it shares with other Zerg units. So in practice, they can have advantages over 'rines that they don't have on paper. I still don't like that mechanic though; the main strength of the hydra being "is a zerg unit." | ||
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