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(D) The Hydra Pilgrimage Part 1 - Page 5

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Felnarion
Profile Joined December 2011
442 Posts
February 14 2012 21:33 GMT
#81
You Protosses who are claiming hydras aren't good against gateway armies are crazy, go give it a shot in a unit tester. Don't build all hydras vs all zealots or stalkers or something stupid, give it a real composition. SOmething like hydra ling against zealot stalker. The hydras will freaking wreck.
EndOfLineTv
Profile Joined February 2011
United States741 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-14 21:53:09
February 14 2012 21:50 GMT
#82
On February 15 2012 05:49 Steak_ wrote:
That's me! I remember that game clearly, and I feel like that game I played against you was an example as to why hydras aren't very good in the midgame. They're better than I thought, because I decided to a-move you before any of my upgrades completed and get demolished by the banelings, and I still didn't lose there. If a Terran just plays defensively and takes expoes, you'll be screwed, maxed on something even worse than ling/bling/muta. Hydras don't let you get hive ever with the amount of gas they cost, and 3/3 marines with a good tank count will shred everything. Their gas cost also forces infestors to be late, and you need these high tech units to defeat the much more cost efficient marine/tank/medivac.

Also, queens are a much gas cheaper unit at focusing down medivacs, the only good thing hydras seem to do. They're dead supply and gas, and a turtling Terran needs to make a huge mistake to lose against them (much like I did).



HELLO!

<3

Yes, when I pushed to your third for the 4th time without any tanking unit support, you pwned those hydras! I face palmed a bit then.

Your tank positioning then was friggen sweet!
EndOfLineTv
Profile Joined February 2011
United States741 Posts
February 14 2012 21:52 GMT
#83
On February 15 2012 05:36 TheSambassador wrote:
I was once like you, my friend! I even started a thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=235527

It's tricky, because Hydras are so expensive... dropping them seems so scary. But you basically NEED either Nydus or drop to use them aggressively. They actually defend drops pretty well IMO... a few at a base can focus down the medivac extremely quickly.

It seems like Blizzard designed them to be defensive (based on their creep speed upgrade) and maybe offensive in the late game (when creepspread is bigger).

I think that Hydras mixed in with Brood Lords and/or Ultralisks could be EXTREMELY strong. The Ultra is the epitome of tankiness, and the Hydras can just do so more damage. They also aren't terrible at trying to kill off Vikings, especially with Infestor support.

I really hope that we see more hydras in the late game once zerg players get their "deathball" going.





SHHHHHH! I am currenlty testing (forcing) this
EndOfLineTv
Profile Joined February 2011
United States741 Posts
February 14 2012 21:54 GMT
#84
On February 15 2012 02:00 brimestone wrote:
No man. hydra dies to fast in tvz.
Even if they are like stim marines. They still cos gas.

Lets say 10 hydras is = to 15 marines.
Thats 1000 minerals and 500 gas. For terran thats 750 minerals only.
NOT A Good trade off.

To make matters worse. 15 marines plus a tank. Thats just 900 minerals and 100 gas.
Now will ten hydras kill 15 marines plus a tank? No way man.


I never said hydras are better.

I am saying that hydra style is VERY tough to use.

Plus, I am using them to see where they can and can not shine in battle
EndOfLineTv
Profile Joined February 2011
United States741 Posts
February 14 2012 21:56 GMT
#85
On February 15 2012 05:30 Tal0n wrote:
hydras are really good in their spots in all matchups. have you ever tryed a 2 base hydra/ling timing in zvz? its incredibly safe and you can be aggressive anyway. you may say: "well banelings will just rape you" - only if you suck

i did some roach hydra in zvt too. its only good on specific maps like shakuras. take the 3rd thats closer to the middle, defend it with roach hydra, then go into muta or infestor as you expand away from T.

hydras are beast in zvp. they beat everything which is why colossus and HT need to hardcounter them (don't mistake this for an argument that sc2 is extremely well designed pls.)


I am currently doing this in zvz and saving alot of really fun content for Part 2 or Part 3 of the Hydra pilgrimage!
Recurve
Profile Joined March 2011
18 Posts
February 14 2012 23:03 GMT
#86
I don't really know about zvt, but in zvp I think there's definitely potential in hydras, but its going to be really really really hard to figure out how to use them. As a protoss player I've been in situations where I get immortal archon + gateway core army and just get completely destroyed by a ton of hydras, but it really takes zerg a long time to reach that critical mass, and sentries can still turn the tide in our favor, especially if the protoss has denied your creep spread.

I've also been testing out with a friend of mine trying to replicate what we saw on Day 9's video with warpgate units vs ling hydra, but it hasn't been working out for my zerg practice partner as well as we thought it would. I made an adjustment by using a warp prism instead of a proxy pylon so the initial lings scouting the map dont have a probe/pylon to go around and snipe, and in the blinkstalker vs hydra battle, it seems very very necessary to hit very accurate timings because unlike roaches, hydras have so little hp, it feels like an all in in terms of defense, if you start losing at any point with hydras out you'll just keep on losing, and +2 attack means you reach a breakpoint where we 7 hit hydras instead of 8 hit them, or you'll get a nice concave and crush the attack really hard. Though I think it can be used better than a roach ling defense, because hydras will keep on firing and deal damage due to range, which means that it is no longer a sit and pray situation where you either need a flank already set up, or hope the protoss messes up his force fields.

Just as advice I think it might be better off to explore hydras more as a response, perhaps to air openers if you can be sure to pull of a timing before collosus, or as a remax after your remove our tech units like our collosus. Just my two cents.
ott
Profile Joined April 2011
United States74 Posts
February 14 2012 23:20 GMT
#87
Hey there, i do like the idea of trying new and different thing out so a few days ago i did try to go hydras in a ZvT. the original idea being to drop then behind the mineral line and use their amazing DPS to destroys the economy in stead of muta harass, well that never happened but a fun crazy game did!
so the game overview goes like this, he went harass crazy, did almost no dmg, we both drop each other and come out even for the most part, then the fighting in the middle is what i was really happy with, hydras on creep can punish any terran mistakes, such as destroy any siege tank that moves up to far to siege, kite marines out of siege range then turn and kill em all and force terran in to awkward and bad positions. lastly i did not win this, the terran lost this you'll see what i mean if you watch, but i think hydras were key in forcing the terran mistakes, some were just bad (really really bad) unit control.

http://drop.sc/112249

Also, awesome post endofline, love the pics n love the creative play!!! keep it up
A truly creative person rids him or herself of self-imposed limitations. ROOT4ROOT! 'this is a strategy made of balls'- tasteless
Mr Showtime
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1353 Posts
February 14 2012 23:35 GMT
#88
If you want to go Hydras as you primary unit for mid-game ZvZ, you NEED infestors and really good infestor control. Banelings will F you in the A if you try to play with mostly hydras. Or, of course, go the more standard roach/hydra, but it seems that you are trying to avoid the norm right now, which is awesome.
Mr Showtime
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1353 Posts
February 14 2012 23:37 GMT
#89
On February 15 2012 06:33 Felnarion wrote:
You Protosses who are claiming hydras aren't good against gateway armies are crazy, go give it a shot in a unit tester. Don't build all hydras vs all zealots or stalkers or something stupid, give it a real composition. SOmething like hydra ling against zealot stalker. The hydras will freaking wreck.


Hydras destroy Stalkers and Sentries, but really aren't that great vs. Chargelots. But, of course, that's why they should sit behind a roach wall to tank the charges.
ddrddrddrddr
Profile Joined August 2010
1344 Posts
February 14 2012 23:45 GMT
#90
Funny stuff and interesting to read. Please tell me when you get hydras down to an art so I can copycat. Not brave and adventurous enough to go where only you and probably few others have gone before!
EndOfLineTv
Profile Joined February 2011
United States741 Posts
February 15 2012 02:51 GMT
#91
On February 15 2012 08:45 ddrddrddrddr wrote:
Funny stuff and interesting to read. Please tell me when you get hydras down to an art so I can copycat. Not brave and adventurous enough to go where only you and probably few others have gone before!


hahahha. Roger
TranceKuja
Profile Joined May 2011
United States154 Posts
February 15 2012 03:10 GMT
#92
If you lose against terran in a game you're making hydras it shouldn't count as a loss.
Winning
Harbinger631
Profile Joined September 2010
United States376 Posts
February 15 2012 03:59 GMT
#93
Waiting for replays, can't wait to see them and start building hydras vs Terran.
lorestarcraft
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1049 Posts
February 15 2012 04:06 GMT
#94
Hydra-Ling is way better than you might think in ZvT. Try it out sometime. (It even works vs hellions)
SC2 Mapmaker
Checkm8
Profile Joined March 2011
Japan627 Posts
February 15 2012 04:52 GMT
#95
Maybe include nydus worms? It's on lair tech as well so not that much of a problem...
It's good for sniping imo...

The hydra "shock" plus the nydus scream makes it a real psychological offense :D

But then again...I'm diamond protoss who only play zerg for fun...
Regenerating brain cells, please wait - - -
GinDo
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
3327 Posts
February 15 2012 05:25 GMT
#96
On February 15 2012 13:52 Checkm8 wrote:
Maybe include nydus worms? It's on lair tech as well so not that much of a problem...
It's good for sniping imo...

The hydra "shock" plus the nydus scream makes it a real psychological offense :D

But then again...I'm diamond protoss who only play zerg for fun...


I was watching Korean Weekly and what the Zerg did was use Nydus instead of walking his troops. The success of Hydras I feel directly correlate to the effectiveness is the Zerg players Nydus play.

I am not saying you need to get a Nydus into their base, but rather use nyduses to reinforce your attacks and to retreat when needed. Kind of like how Protosses build proxy pylons as they progress across the map.
ⱩŦ ƑⱠẬ$Ħ / ƩǤ ɈƩẬƉØƝǤ [ɌȻ] / ȊṂ.ṂṼⱣ / ẬȻƩɌ.ȊƝƝØṼẬŦȊØƝ / ẬȻƩɌ.ϟȻẬɌⱠƩŦŦ ϟⱠẬɎƩɌϟ ȻⱠẬƝ
EndOfLineTv
Profile Joined February 2011
United States741 Posts
February 15 2012 08:50 GMT
#97
On February 15 2012 14:25 GinDo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2012 13:52 Checkm8 wrote:
Maybe include nydus worms? It's on lair tech as well so not that much of a problem...
It's good for sniping imo...

The hydra "shock" plus the nydus scream makes it a real psychological offense :D

But then again...I'm diamond protoss who only play zerg for fun...


I was watching Korean Weekly and what the Zerg did was use Nydus instead of walking his troops. The success of Hydras I feel directly correlate to the effectiveness is the Zerg players Nydus play.

I am not saying you need to get a Nydus into their base, but rather use nyduses to reinforce your attacks and to retreat when needed. Kind of like how Protosses build proxy pylons as they progress across the map.


I also saw this recently. Cool stuff!
Decendos
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany1341 Posts
February 15 2012 16:14 GMT
#98
it is so fucking funny to play. :D

just go for 4 queen gasless opening with 1 or 2 spines into 3rd + makrohatch ling hydra + 4 "creepspread"-queens which you suicide in his tank line to take splash damage if he pushes. transition pretty fast into infestors (you really only need 15 hydras so you can transition pretty fast) since the problem arent the tanks but the stimmed, upgraded, medivacsupported marines.

best thing about this style: you REALLY get better spreading creep. and although hydras are gas heavy, you trade the gas in form of killing his medivacs.
Sylailene
Profile Joined February 2011
91 Posts
February 15 2012 16:35 GMT
#99
Lol that was great. I used to try hydras a bunch when I played zerg, I just never found a good place for them
wheelchairs
Profile Joined February 2010
United States145 Posts
February 15 2012 16:40 GMT
#100
zvt hydras are very bad vs mech though. Mostly due to tanks + BFHs, both just deal far too much damage to the fragile hydras.
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