EPTThat said, any new pointers for the new maps? http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/4682390/Season_7_Ladder_Map_Update-3_28_2012#blog
[G] Playing Mech in TvZ - No more banelings. - Page 6
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Weiman
Netherlands91 Posts
That said, any new pointers for the new maps? http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/4682390/Season_7_Ladder_Map_Update-3_28_2012#blog | ||
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saaaa
Germany419 Posts
On March 26 2012 09:42 Squigly wrote: One more question on this then. If i have built 20 supply of vikings and he does an ultra switch, or makes no air units, what should I do with the vikings? Mineral harass and sack them? Keep them alive and harass? yeah i'm also interested in an answer  i like to harass with smal groups maybe 3 vikings the minerals lines and send 1-3 in different locations to kill overlords and maybe force a few extra fungals with it. But i also saw that thorzains send all his vikings to the zerg base to kill overlords in mass and the zerg got hugely supply blocked but i'am afraid that after i loss all vikings in this scenario he just build some air units and i'am f***** | ||
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Squigly
United Kingdom629 Posts
On March 29 2012 19:16 saaaa wrote: yeah i'm also interested in an answer i like to harass with smal groups maybe 3 vikings the minerals lines and send 1-3 in different locations to kill overlords and maybe force a few extra fungals with it. But i also saw that thorzains send all his vikings to the zerg base to kill overlords in mass and the zerg got hugely supply blocked but i'am afraid that after i loss all vikings in this scenario he just build some air units and i'am f***** Im kinda embarrassed to admit I hadnt even thought of killing OLs. Its such a simple use that I hadnt considered. Thatl be my main plan from now on unless someones tells me otherwise. | ||
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LemonyTang
United Kingdom437 Posts
Firstly, regarding Vyyl's post, It seems that adding the 2nd and 3rd factory at the time listed in your BO causes me to not have enough money to constantly produce out of all my structures... there's a lot of idle time on the factories until i can start making thors. i'm just wondering if you have a good reason for adding the 3rd factory so fast, as I can't seem to find one. I tried another build order I saw Trump do and it seems a bit more flexible and spends money better. It's roughly: 9 depot 12 rax 13 gas 15 orbital constant marines up to 5 @100 gas factory @100% factory, 1 hellion pressure with 5 marines/hellion reactor on rax tech lab on factory CC @ 5:00min 2nd factory 2nd gas @100% 2nd factory, swap onto reactor use rax to scout or make more marines @ 150/150 blue flame This build gives you the flexibility to get an earlier tank if needed, and you get earlier blue flame. You get the 3rd factory a little later in this build and i find it spends money better. Or, with your build order, I guess you could just make a later 3rd factory, use the rax earlier to make a tech lab for the 2nd factory. I can definitely see your criticism. I understand why it feels inefficient to build the third factory so fast, but basically the reason I do it is because it's safer. If you have to pull out of the hellion timing for whatever reason, then you have a third production facility you can use to make tanks. Of course, you could argue that you could simply lift the fact off the reactor and onto a tech lab made by the rax. So it's definitely a good point. To be honest, it also covers for bad macro (forgetting to make hellions exactly on time) and it also makes things easier (you might forget to make the third fact in time to get a second thor, causing you to lose to mutas). So it's also kind of a failsafe in this regard too. Trump's build seems okay, I can see why you'd like it, and you can certainly use it. I'm not trying to promote my opener as the be all and end all, simply something that works for me and can often get you to the midgame either safely or with an advantage. To me the only downside of Trump's build is that it kinda overcommits to marines, building 5 is 150 minerals (more than 2) that delays some of your tech or eco. Regarding vikings when Z tech switches from air to ground, as pointed out, a really good way to use them is to hunt overlords. I also use them to pick off mining bases, as 10-20 vikings actually does a lot of dps in ground mode. I also make sure to start getting air upgrades once it's got to this phase of the game so while they're still pretty crap vs ultras, they arent as useless vs roaches (with support). You should also be confident that Zerg probably can't afford to rebuild his army that many times, and as long as you use your army to be cost efficient you can ride the wave. On the weekend I should have the time to go through a walkthrough for the new maps like I did for last seasons, but basically Daybreak is good for Mech as you can turtle perfectly on it, the same for Metropolis, especially as it has only two attack paths that are joined in the middle. Ohana is a bit different, I don't think mech will be as effective on this map as taking a fourth leaves you extremely exposed, simply because the map is quite small. | ||
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Partypants
Australia50 Posts
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LukasG
Germany95 Posts
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ranamudjan
Russian Federation6 Posts
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Spiner
United States360 Posts
I see the advantages of going heavy thor composition as: -Large amounts of thors and hellions can deal with brood lords surprisingly well, and even ultras. Have the hellions follow the thors so that they auto attack the broodlings, which protects the thors and allows them to fire at the broods without their AI getting screwed up. I get one raven to deal with burrowed roaches and to put up a PDD against corruptors/mutas. -Even easier to micro then heavy tank composition. Don't have to worry about being caught out of siege mode as often. -Sometimes zergs decide to transition into mass muta if they see that you only have a few thors and heavy tank comp. By having tons of thors, this tech switch is never an issue. -Against mass roach I throw down a few starports and start making banshees. Banshees = high dps and good at sniping infestors. So basically my army looks like this at 200/200: Thors, a few tanks (mainly for dealing with infestors - nerual), hellions, banshees, a raven, and 3-5 vikings. | ||
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Weiman
Netherlands91 Posts
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Olsson
Sweden931 Posts
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Mongolbonjwa
Finland376 Posts
How often should i harass zerg and how? usually hellion harass is denied | ||
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Mongolbonjwa
Finland376 Posts
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Douillos
France3195 Posts
For my part I like to get 3rd cc before 3rd factory ONCE im sure no all in is coming (3rd base started, lair etc.). i use this to macro a lot harder and take advantage of mech incredible defense possibilities. | ||
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CaptainCharisma
New Zealand808 Posts
I say variation because as others have pointed out, your timing of the third factory renders it idle for a period and delays upgrades for too long. I prefer to get an armory after the second factory, and start adding additional factories as my econ kicks in. I have a couple of questions though. 1) What time should I set as a good benchmark to max out and push? I generally max out around 18 minutes on a good day, but I feel this should be improved. 2) A game I played recently scared me a bit. It was Entombed Valley I was happily macro-ing up, about 160 supply. 2-2 upgrades. I was camped outside my 3 bases, I had approximately 12 tanks all seiged, four thors and a bunch of hellions. I saw them coming - a pack of about 12 Ultras which ran straight into my army, and killed the lot. I never stood a chance. This is the first time this has happened to me. I've never lost to Ultras using this strategy before. Is this a hard counter? He never attacked me up to this point, I did almost no hellion harass after early-mid game. The only thing that has crushed this build as hard as this was unscouted doom drops or unscouted BL rush. Thought? Overall, I'm very grateful for this guide and I have a good winning record with it. Thanks! | ||
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Mongolbonjwa
Finland376 Posts
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Mowr
Sweden791 Posts
On April 04 2012 02:47 Mongolbonjwa wrote: how do you deal with fast broodlord, once zerg realizes that terran is just gonna turtle and go mech? You hit them while teching (it shouldn't be too hard to spot) or turtle with thors until you have enough vikings. I suggest the former, but that depends on how slow your build is. | ||
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Mongolbonjwa
Finland376 Posts
On April 04 2012 03:01 Mowr wrote: You hit them while teching (it shouldn't be too hard to spot) or turtle with thors until you have enough vikings. I suggest the former, but that depends on how slow your build is. Terran cannot have enough vikings and both thors and tanks in 15 minutes Terran is forced to do some timing attack before broodlords come if zerg goes this greedy with his tech. But when and with what kind of composition? | ||
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Weiman
Netherlands91 Posts
On April 04 2012 00:49 CaptainCharisma wrote: 2) A game I played recently scared me a bit. It was Entombed Valley I was happily macro-ing up, about 160 supply. 2-2 upgrades. I was camped outside my 3 bases, I had approximately 12 tanks all seiged, four thors and a bunch of hellions. I saw them coming - a pack of about 12 Ultras which ran straight into my army, and killed the lot. I never stood a chance. This is why I like to get an early starport and make a medivac (drop straight away) viking (attack overlords) and a banshee. The banshee forces some form of antiair and does decent DPS. Scouting is so vital. Also, more thors against ultras  Positioning with depot walls is key as well. | ||
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Mowr
Sweden791 Posts
On April 04 2012 03:03 Mongolbonjwa wrote: Terran cannot have enough vikings and both thors and tanks in 15 minutes Terran is forced to do some timing attack before broodlords come if zerg goes this greedy with his tech. But when and with what kind of composition? Reread my post and you might understand it. I never said you should have vikings at 15 min. When you hit is early enough that broodlords aren't out. Much earlier and they haven't begun spending the money into hive, hit that timing window. Giving a time or foodcount is useless because it is completely situational. | ||
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Squigly
United Kingdom629 Posts
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