EPT[D] Protoss Base Design PvZ - Page 2
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DrKillface
Australia106 Posts
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Nightshade_
United States549 Posts
On January 11 2012 16:25 COLDbear wrote: when did zerg get those two unitsI will watch the replay and get back with a more intelligent and useful feedback sometimes this week. But I must say, walling isn't mandatory. It is good situationally. The downside to it is if you are being rushed early with ranged units like marines/marauders. Blink stalked can be fatal since your cyber can be easily targeted. Now as far as Pvz goes, I often wait for a 2nd gate and wall with that instead. Since its more robust and isn't much of a setback in a rare case of an attack. Edit: was in a game, thanks for all the feedback guys. Making me think a lot about this. But perhaps maybe we could make something out of it? :o | ||
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memcpy
United States459 Posts
Seriously though, you didn't mention anything about nydus. How do you deal with having no vision on the edge of your base? | ||
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Nightshade_
United States549 Posts
On January 11 2012 16:54 memcpy wrote: How long were you sitting on that toilet? O_o Seriously though, you didn't mention anything about nydus. How do you deal with having no vision on the edge of your base? ah good point. I typically have 3 stalkers on patrol for each side of my base to snipe overlords, so that didn't cross my mind. | ||
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blah_blah
346 Posts
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Nightshade_
United States549 Posts
On January 11 2012 18:07 blah_blah wrote: Why does seemingly every masters player say that they are mid-high masters? You have 160 points after bonus pool is subtracted. That is not anywhere close to high masters. Why does everybody that thinks they're a critic seemingly believe rank and points determine the MMR of a player? I have played and beaten top 8 masters, which in the common term is "high masters." Enough ad hominems and post something mildly intelligent. Also how does "rank" and even "MMR" determine the quality of an idea or a post? Please go troll somewhere else. | ||
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blah_blah
346 Posts
On January 11 2012 18:57 Nightshade_ wrote: Why does everybody that thinks they're a critic seemingly believe rank and points determine the MMR of a player? Rank is meaningless, (points) - (bonus pool) is basically MMR. It doesn't matter if you beat a top 8 masters player in a shitty division who only has about 400 points (there are divisions like this); this player is not high masters either. I am looking at your profile right now and in your last 10 games you have been exclusively playing players with between 100 to 200 points after bonus pool is subtracted. This makes you low masters; maybe you could stretch the truth a tiny bit and call yourself low-mid masters, but you are nowhere near mid-high masters. | ||
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Malhavoc
Italy308 Posts
On top of that, until you get blink, isn't it too hard to move stalkers around and defend against mutalisk? And even with blink, blinking is better used to run after escaping mutalisk, not to get to the point where they are attacking, which would probably be needed here just to quickly get to the other side of this wall sometime. | ||
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jackdaleaper
Philippines1216 Posts
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xtruder
Afghanistan135 Posts
![[image loading]](http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/277160_183120605091736_1822159_n.jpg) >2012 >Still walling off against Zerg. >ISHYGDDT User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Checkm8
Japan627 Posts
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Iksf
United Kingdom444 Posts
They work great in theory but if you misplace the zealot by a millimeter you die, obviously thats a human problem not the actual placement but if your going to play like 30 games a day or whatever you will screw this up and randomly lose occasionally. | ||
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.Natsu
68 Posts
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zyce
United States649 Posts
Assuming no FFE, our wall off should create a 1-hex opening as close to the top of the ramp as is possible. Other buildings/tech should be tucked away so they are not seen by units no the ramp. Furthermore, they should be spread about so that a single overlord (or a scan for that matter) will not reveal your entire tech/production. My conclusion is that sentries remain very important in ramp defense, and without scouting a baneling bust, Protoss users should stick to using 2 buildings to wall-off (pylon+gate or gate+core) and add more walling if needed. Gate+core with a pylon in the back will be much more effective, and allow you to properly position your own units. | ||
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PoisedYeTi
Australia167 Posts
Keep them coming dude | ||
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rEalGuapo
Germany832 Posts
"But what if you lose your natural and have to defend in main?" I can only see this happening in 2 scenarios: 1- Pretty late in the game your natural dies because your army is far away. Well, if he gets into my main this building placement will only slow me down and he gets my main nexus+tech more easily. 2- Pretty early in the game, he faked an economic opening but went for early agression. So, this is more interesting? It is not. Zerg killed my Nat and forge+cannons, this happens in the middle of WG research when I am on one Gateway. Will this one Gateway+CC placement help me stay alive? No. Either I get Sentries in time and FF the ramp so that Z can not attack me or I lose because my 1 Sentry + 1 Stalker (propably minus the Stalker) will not defend against his 5 Roaches. Not matter the building placement. Reasons why I have not included other scenarios: I think that if I lose my Natural in the "midgame", when I am on 2 Bases, I am dead. Run-Bys If I have to defend against a Ling run-by the usual Building placement that allows me to block with a Zealot is just as good. If I have to defend a couple of Roaches, I will either get FF on my ramp or They will get in my Base because I have no Units there. HOWEVER: I love that you made this effort, only this way Protoss can evolve! I think this particular strategy does not influence PvZ. Still, nice effort+very innovative thinking. Oh, also it can potentially slow down your Stalkers that want to defend against Mutas, say: he comes from the right to your main base with his first attack. You position your Stalkers there after you have scared the Mutas away. Now he hits your Natural from the top left (Spawn location as in the Screenshots). You will either have to walk around the buildings to be able to blink to your Natural (if you even have Blink) or you will have to blink over your buildings in order to walk down, you can not blink right under him and kill a few Mutas by surprise (at least not before all your little Probies have been brutally murdered  ) | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
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ZeromuS
Canada13389 Posts
On January 11 2012 19:53 blah_blah wrote: Rank is meaningless, (points) - (bonus pool) is basically MMR. It doesn't matter if you beat a top 8 masters player in a shitty division who only has about 400 points (there are divisions like this); this player is not high masters either. I am looking at your profile right now and in your last 10 games you have been exclusively playing players with between 100 to 200 points after bonus pool is subtracted. This makes you low masters; maybe you could stretch the truth a tiny bit and call yourself low-mid masters, but you are nowhere near mid-high masters. Im going to let you know something Teamliquid and many of its users feel is important: Rank is not the key to giving good advice or having ideas. While a higher ranked player might be able to give better advice in say something like a [G] thread, any rank player can start a [D] thread. The OP actually has some good concepts and he clearly believes that as Protoss players, we should be thinking about our base layout more than we have been in the past. Ideas in this [D] thread worth noting: Pylons aren't easily accessible by melee units, buildings are double or triple powered, and robo units can't get blocked in. Is this kind of building placement optimal in every situation? No. Are the concepts with regards to having pylons hard to kill with ling runbys in PvZ good? Heck yes. This kind of idea, the buildings blocking pylons is super smart and while I might not make the alleyways, I might start surrounding small clusters of pylons with gateways so that ling run bys can't unpower them, and to make it harder for Mutas to unpower a lot of gateways at once. 4 pylons are harder to kill than one pylon giving me more time to defend my stuff. I see some useful information here but the funnel idea while good for one base openers, is really not very good at all if you plan to FFE. On January 11 2012 23:56 kcdc wrote: Why would I constrict my unit movement like this? It's bad enough that I have to send units up through a choke at my ramp to defend a drop, so why would I extend that choke all the way to my nexus. Ranged units could just drop outside the little tunnel and they'd have an eternity before any units could get there. Blink stalkers could make it, but in that case, all this layout has accomplished is forcing your stalkers to fight alone having already burned their blink. There's a reason nobody does this. Yeah, see that's my biggest issue with this as well. It funnels more than the enemy units and your own as well. However, as I pointed out above there is some merit to the inital idea that we should be thinking of good ways to sim city to prevent runbys in PvZ. Though I really like the concept/idea of having no exposed pylons and primarily having large HP buildings defending the pylons making it harder to unpower your stuff. | ||
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