EPTI need to know what the biggest differences are between platinum and diamond and what I need to do to close those differences. Any help is greatly appreciated.
Differences between Platinum and Diamond?
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BreAKerTV
Taiwan1658 Posts
I need to know what the biggest differences are between platinum and diamond and what I need to do to close those differences. Any help is greatly appreciated. | ||
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Avril_Lavigne
United States446 Posts
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TiTanIum_
Brazil1335 Posts
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DrKillface
Australia106 Posts
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llKenZyll
United States853 Posts
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Oliveran
Sweden72 Posts
- Knowledge of how to react in un-orthadox situations and be able to adapt at any time - Map-awareness - Timings - Scouting The main things that I improved on between platinum and diamond, but now I'm a couple of games away from masters though ^^" | ||
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zezamer
Finland5701 Posts
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Tal0n
United States175 Posts
once you are good at multitasking (like holding 2 medivacs with marines while he pushes), you will likely become masters my minimap vision is terrible and i'm zerg but i'm masters regardless. you can really pick something to become really good at and if you are smart about abusing that strength of yours, you will get promoterd eventually. | ||
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UmiNotsuki
United States633 Posts
Alternatively, you should feel free to make some [H]elp threads here on TL. Post some replays, give your brief analysis of what went on and what you could've worked on, and then ask for the help of the TL community on giving their opinions on what would've helped you out. glhf! | ||
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OzkanTheFlip
United States246 Posts
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Corsica
Ukraine1854 Posts
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Sajaki
Canada1135 Posts
Game sense (when to drone when to play greedy) Army Positioning (u mean im NOT supposed to attack into a choke vs Colo sentry?) Build order execution. Things you can do: Do alot of drops, ling runbys, or even offensive pokes with ur army while ur trying to macro efficiently behind it, prioritizew the macro as opposed to doing damage (for learning sake) Play alot of games...  Really the best way to improve gamesense. Alternately you can watch ur replays and compare you to your opponent to determine timings. "Is it really safe to drone here? Or SHOULD i be droning here?"For army positioning, you can try playing rather defensive and make him attack into a concave, whilst teching to broods and infestors. Or you can be aggressive and just test what angles and where you can attack for optimal army value. Build order execution: This is more for P and T, but as zerg is more reliant on general principles and timings, try getting the drone timings, spire timing, and tech timing down pat. As well as the expansion timings! | ||
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Seiferz
United States640 Posts
my friend made the jump a little while ago and from what I noticed all he did was practice the same build over and over. you'll get to a point where you're so smooth that it wont matter if you mess up your control vs plats. good luck! | ||
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SidewinderSC2
United States236 Posts
Beyond that, game sense (attacking/defending), scouting and army control are the next most important things. | ||
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Thobrik
Sweden1120 Posts
What this did is it: a) Made sure I never missed a probe while on multiple bases. Where I previously did some shit like 4e 5e 6e I could now simply 4eee b) Made my clicking more accurate by forcing me to click on a base instead of hotkey to it... c)... which in turned increased my map awareness dramatically. | ||
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bgalang92
United States155 Posts
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TheWalls
United States15 Posts
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kungfu
United States30 Posts
The largest difference between the two lied in worker production. The platinum player would always have gaps in his production of scv's and this would, in the end cost him games. | ||
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Ignorant prodigy
United States385 Posts
On January 07 2012 05:28 Sajaki wrote: Army Positioning (u mean im NOT supposed to attack into a choke vs Colo sentry?) I dont know one platinum player that thinks they're supposed to do that... "stop it" I don't think you can paint the difference between the leagues with one giant stroke.. everyone is different.. it could be one matchup holding someone back.. it could be someone has good macro but never looks at the mini map This thread will just get a bunch of opinions which may hold true is specific situations, but there will be no consensus. The obvious difference is win ratio & MMR.. the direct corolation to those values is skill and/or understanding vs. their opponents skill and/or understanding. | ||
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cleecks
Netherlands109 Posts
On January 07 2012 05:04 zezamer wrote: Pretty much agree with this. The difference between platinum and diamond in general is just more crispness of your whole gameplay in general: macro, micro, scouting, map control, and gamesense.diamond players are better in every way. If you want to imrpove fast, analysing your own losses (and sometimes wins, if you're unsure why you won) becomes pretty important as you need to know what parts you're not good enough at, so you can work on those. | ||
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BONE
United States176 Posts
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FiNTer
Finland153 Posts
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mhsMILKe
United States14 Posts
This is all my own experience, and many of the above answers are legitimate as well. | ||
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ContactKilla
United States194 Posts
I think the skill gap thats the closest is High Diamond - Mid Masters. I was top Diamond last season and am now Mid Masters and I cant feel the difference at all. | ||
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Nible
Sweden85 Posts
On January 07 2012 06:16 ContactKilla wrote: Theres a reason why Diamond is higher than Plat. Diamonds are just better. Plats seem like players that like the game, but aren't really improving in mechanics. They dont seem to take that extra effort to be a better player. They kind of just do the same thing and it works some games and doesnt work in others. I think the skill gap thats the closest is High Diamond - Mid Masters. I was top Diamond last season and am now Mid Masters and I cant feel the difference at all. As a Plat player, I actually got a bit offended by this. What do you mean we're not trying to improve? Do you mean that you have to jump from Gold to Diamond to be a player that wants to improve? No matter how easy it is for some to get to Master league in like 200 games, there actually is people like myself that have needed more than 2000 just to get to Platinum, lol. Don't tell us that it's easy, don't imply it either as you did. | ||
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Grayboosh
United States68 Posts
For zerg.... - It's hard to never miss an inject, but that's what you have to work on. - Mini-map awareness, especially against terran drops. Watch the minimap more than your screen, one tip I've never tried is playing with your sound off. - Ling / Bling micro vs Zerg, whether you like to use blings or not, you have to know how to split drones, and send lings to detonate them. If you use them, you have to manually detonate them sometimes, or prevent them from attacking the bait. - Scouting vs Toss, because of their tendancy to FFE, the temptation to get caught up in a macro race is there. You have to keep tabs on them though because they can push out at any time. Be diligent in taking watch towers back and sending scouting overlords. Vs all races... be impervious to cheese. I think this is one of the biggest differences in getting into diamond. Plat players have set build orders that they're practicing, because they're still mastering execution. Diamond+ players are able to identify different builds by scouting and counter accordingly (except Idra, he sticks with his game plan or quits without a fight). I was bumped down from mid Diamond to Plat in season 5, and was surprised how easy it was because my opponents were either "good" at executing a specific build or good at macro, not both. I shot up to the top of the division and stayed there for a couple weeks till I was finally promoted to high diamond. I kinda miss it | ||
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Mesha
Bosnia-Herzegovina439 Posts
But it is not written in stone. Low master is sometimes like high platinum. Some of the top league players can't get promoted since boundaries in their head, they think like the players from next league are way better, while they are marginally better... | ||
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discobaas
225 Posts
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discobaas
225 Posts
On January 07 2012 06:16 ContactKilla wrote: Theres a reason why Diamond is higher than Plat. Diamonds are just better. Plats seem like players that like the game, but aren't really improving in mechanics. They dont seem to take that extra effort to be a better player. They kind of just do the same thing and it works some games and doesnt work in others. I think the skill gap thats the closest is High Diamond - Mid Masters. I was top Diamond last season and am now Mid Masters and I cant feel the difference at all. Well your thought on the skill gap is incorrect. Due to the Gaussian "skill" distribution, the difference in skill is the smallest in the middle, which would be around Gold. As you go up after Gold, it gets harder and harder to get further. | ||
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Apom
France655 Posts
silver -> gold : have a build order, at least up to taking your nat gold -> platinum : think about army composition, don't just build random stuff platinum -> diamond : expand past the natural, before being mined out | ||
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KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
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reneg
United States859 Posts
On January 07 2012 07:13 discobaas wrote: Well your thought on the skill gap is incorrect. Due to the Gaussian "skill" distribution, the difference in skill is the smallest in the middle, which would be around Gold. As you go up after Gold, it gets harder and harder to get further. No one said that the distribution was Gaussian, iirc. From what I've understood, there are no Deviations, and it's just chunks of percentages of players. I.e. bottom 20% (bronze) are worse than the 2nd worse 20% (Silver), and so on. And whether the skill gap between Gold and Plat is as big as Bronze and Silver, or Plat and Dia, or High Masters and GM is largely debatable. | ||
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Pesto
United States121 Posts
There is no way any answer to this question is going to help you improve. You need to just play more and watch your replays and figure out what specifically you are doing wrong and what your weaknesses are. You're smart enough to do that, eh? | ||
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Insomni7
667 Posts
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black3200
Canada74 Posts
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Ubenn
Canada114 Posts
On January 07 2012 05:04 zezamer wrote: diamond players are better in every way. WOW NO WAY? It's all about mechanics. Overall very league is the same it just that the league above just does it a little bit better. | ||
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stokes17
United States1411 Posts
On January 07 2012 05:34 SidewinderSC2 wrote: The difference between every league is primarily macro. Beyond that, game sense (attacking/defending), scouting and army control are the next most important things. yep this is basically it. Mechanics can carry you extremely extremely far. | ||
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diophan
United States1018 Posts
On January 07 2012 05:16 UmiNotsuki wrote: I think it really depends on the player, really. I know lots of people who had poor mechanics holding them from that promotion, some who had poor game sense, others with relatively fantastic macro and mechanics but frankly laughable strategies and builds... you're gonna have to analyze your own play to find out what you really need to work on. This. Diamond players are just better on average. It's really misguided to think diamond players have some universal thing they're better at. Just work on improving whatever you want to improve and your MMR will go up. Improve enough and you'll get promoted. | ||
The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
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mage36
415 Posts
Furthermore, since there are 3 races, it could be an understanding of a certain matchup that hold them back, as they simply have a poor winning percentage against this certain race while an excellent one against the other two. To conclude, it's just impossible what the reason actually is as it is different for each person. | ||
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diophan
United States1018 Posts
On January 07 2012 07:13 discobaas wrote: Well your thought on the skill gap is incorrect. Due to the Gaussian "skill" distribution, the difference in skill is the smallest in the middle, which would be around Gold. As you go up after Gold, it gets harder and harder to get further. You're assuming something called "skill" has some unambiguous numerical value and that value follows a Gaussian distrubtion. That makes no sense whatsoever. How you decide to numerically capture skill changes the distribution. Given one numerical assignment which follows distribution A I can apply an increasing smooth function which also gives a valid numerical assignment which then follows distribution B. Just 'cause you know a fancy word doesn't mean you get to call someone else incorrect | ||
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Edu
Sweden35 Posts
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arcane1129
United States270 Posts
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Makuly
Taiwan54 Posts
Scouting abilities- while they do scout they dont know what to look for and when they find it, they don't know what it means or how to respond to it. Generally poor game sense in any timing pushes (if they want to execute one). They dont know when to expand or attack. Macro abilities- constantly not remembering to make workers, getting supply blocked, forgetting the injects/chronos/mules Micro abilites- while some of them may have the micro ability of a diamond or even low master, it doesn't compensate for the other flaws. Diamonds have a general knowledge of 'standard' strategies scouting- they may know how to respond in some situations and how to scout better, but still lacking in many situations game sense- this sets them really apart from the masters: game sense is maybe slightly better than a platinum. Lack of knowledge of timing windows, when to expand/attack, etc macro abilities- less getting supply blocked, using macro mechanics more often, making more workers | ||
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stokes17
United States1411 Posts
On January 07 2012 08:02 diophan wrote: You're assuming something called "skill" has some unambiguous numerical value and that value follows a Gaussian distrubtion. That makes no sense whatsoever. How you decide to numerically capture skill changes the distribution. Given one numerical assignment which follows distribution A I can apply an increasing smooth function which also gives a valid numerical assignment which then follows distribution B. Just 'cause you know a fancy word doesn't mean you get to call someone else incorrect I mean what he is saying is correct. The higher you go on the skill curve the more pronounced any differences in skill are (a gold and plat player may split 60/40 where as a top .01% player (MC-MVP-Nestea etc) will likely never lose to a top .1% player (mid-high GM semi pro) Now just because the ladder doesn't perfectly distribute the skill curve (high diamond being basically equal to low/mid masters in terms of skill) doesn't mean that skill differences don't become more acute as you increase in overall skill. | ||
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awakenx
United States341 Posts
Still probably just better at macroing and mechanics and game sense. | ||
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diophan
United States1018 Posts
On January 07 2012 08:21 stokes17 wrote: I mean what he is saying is correct. The higher you go on the skill curve the more pronounced any differences in skill are (a gold and plat player may split 60/40 where as a top .01% player (MC-MVP-Nestea etc) will likely never lose to a top .1% player (mid-high GM semi pro) Now just because the ladder doesn't perfectly distribute the skill curve (high diamond being basically equal to low/mid masters in terms of skill) doesn't mean that skill differences don't become more acute as you increase in overall skill. I agree with you're observation that "the higher you go on the skill curve the more pronounced any differences in skill are" but that's not what he said at all. There are a ton of distributions that have that property. I have no idea what makes him think it's Gaussian, and then based on that premise which has no justification he calls someone else wrong. It also doesn't really make sense that it's Gaussian. If MVP is the best player in the world and Bomber is the 50th best, Gaussian means the skill difference between MVP and Bomber is the same and that between the worst player in the world and the 50th best. Anyway, /rant | ||
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stokes17
United States1411 Posts
On January 07 2012 08:29 diophan wrote: I agree with you're observation that "the higher you go on the skill curve the more pronounced any differences in skill are" but that's not what he said at all. There are a ton of distributions that have that property. I have no idea what makes him think it's Gaussian, and then based on that premise which has no justification he calls someone else wrong. It also doesn't really make sense that it's Gaussian. If MVP is the best player in the world and Bomber is the 50th best, Gaussian means the skill difference between MVP and Bomber is the same and that between the worst player in the world and the 50th best. Anyway, /rant o, is that how that distribution works? Then yea that's probably not exactly accurate. Why is it the 50th player? Wouldn't it be a fraction not a number? | ||
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diophan
United States1018 Posts
On January 07 2012 08:34 stokes17 wrote: o, is that how that distribution works? Then yea that's probably not exactly accurate. Why is it the 50th player? Wouldn't it be a fraction not a number? You can convert it to a fraction if you want but it doesn't matter, something like 100% vs. 99.99% and 0% .01%. You just switch from actual player ranks to %s by dividing by the number of people that play SC. | ||
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[AG]AggressionGaming
Canada43 Posts
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aebriol
Norway2066 Posts
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stokes17
United States1411 Posts
On January 07 2012 08:44 diophan wrote: You can convert it to a fraction if you want but it doesn't matter, something like 100% vs. 99.99% and 0% .01%. You just switch from actual player ranks to %s by dividing by the number of people that play SC. O wait, Gaussian is just normal distribution(psych student hehe)? Yes, SC2 skill is normally distributed. It might be positively skewed, but the idea still holds. A top 50 player is more than 10x as good as a top 500 player. Just like a top 2% player (masters) is more than 10x as good as a 20% player(low diamond) | ||
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Stipulation
United States587 Posts
On January 07 2012 08:12 arcane1129 wrote: There's no one thing that diamond players do that platinum players don't. It's just that, on average, they're a bit better at everything. I think this is the main thing to be aware of. Until you're high masters there are just so many different areas that people can develop in. One player might have higher apm, but worse decision making. One might have better economy management cause he took a lesson and was taught that, while another saw a pro practice forcefield micro and he has a better grasp of that. I don't think any patterns of development can be made until you get to the highest level play, if it can even be seen there. | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
On January 07 2012 08:51 aebriol wrote: Platinum players don't know proper builds, when to expand to two bases, and how to saturate their two bases properly. I'd say that about Diamond. Only diamonds breaking into masters really do build orders. Even many diamonds don't do proper builds. I'd say in diamond though, people start to do 'semblances' of proper builds. Like they will go reactor hellion, expand, and then go cloaked banshees. A masters would never do that, but a diamond would. It's a terrible build, and against a zerg who macros correctly, it won't work because both mutas and overseers will be out from a 55 supply lair, but that's just what happens. They think it's a proper build because they went reactor hellion expand, but it's not to follow up with cloaked banshees instead of mech or rine/tank... I've also seen a LOT of forge/gateway 1 base builds, 3 rax from terran, and 4 gate is common in diamond (in masters, it's unheard of, and I've actually lost to 4 gate in high masters because I hadn't seen it in so long and was simply totally confused what the opponent was doing i thought he was going like hidden base lol). Diamond is full of 1 base cheese too, whereas Masters it's more 2 base or 3 all-ins or turtle deathballs or gimmicky timings (marine/marauder, 6 gate void ray, 7 gate all-ins, etc). Zergs never hatch first in diamond either, almost all go 14/14, while in masters they all go hatch first, and never lose to 14/14. I dont think i ever see 1 base all-ins in masters, but diamond is just all 1 base cheese (if they cheese). I don't think there is much difference from platinum and diamond. Platinum just has glaring macro mistakes... but ive seen diamonds and masters with that too. I don't know. I think diamonds have a sort of play that fails at emulating pro play, while platinums just don't even attempt it. | ||
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plasemeious
United States244 Posts
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NadaSound
United States227 Posts
Economy for me is the biggest hurdle that I have not been able to overcome. Sometimes I'll end a game with like 30 scvs  . This of course makes macroing very hard when you don't have a good economy. You might some times feel very proud of keeping your money below 1k for a game but it means nothing if your income is trash to begin with. The other problem I come across a lot is poor decision making. Attack right before a critical upgrade finishes, deciding to pump units instead of expanding, expanding instead of pumping units, suiciding armies when I'm in an amazing position. I get promoted to diamond when I am doing these things well, I get demoted when I play to win (rather than to improve), take short cuts and try kill my opponent (rather than to play solid and win the game). | ||
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aznkukuboi
120 Posts
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MikeTheBike
New Zealand136 Posts
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dynwar7
1983 Posts
And for those who say Diamonds are better than Plats, are you joking me? Did you know that Grandmasters are better than Masters and Gold are better than silvers? Interesting, huh? On topic, I think it is just mostly Macro. Mostly that is. Yes, other things can play an important factor such as micro and etc,. but the major thing has got to be macro. I think Diamond players are more confident, so psychologically they are a lot stronger. Skill-wise.....I dont think its THAT big, but yeah, mostly Macro. Just keep practicing and you should be in Diamond. Havent played much this season though, soon will :D | ||
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diophan
United States1018 Posts
On January 07 2012 10:34 aznkukuboi wrote: Weird, I was diamond, got demoted to plat at season 5. Now I'm facing diamonds again. To me, there's no difference. I'll probably be promoted within the next 50 games. I play exactly the same. There's no difference because you're either facing high plat or low diamond, so basically the exact same MMR | ||
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darkscream
Canada2310 Posts
Remember that those categories don't actually represent skill, they just represent wins. Win more, get promoted. Now, if you're asking "what can I do to improve to make myself able to beat diamond players", that's a different question and philosophy entirely, more akin to the other answers in this thread, surely there are many ways you can improve mechanically and strategically. But there will always be people in higher leagues than you, who have worse strategy and mechanics. They aren't better than you, they just won more and lost less. | ||
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Nourek
Germany188 Posts
On January 07 2012 10:52 MikeTheBike wrote: In general Diamond players play better than Platinum players in every way as they would have probably played more games and therefore have more refined skills. The thing I've found is it is largely being able to react and scout that is a huge factor in the jump from Platinum to Diamond. That can also vary quite a bit by matchup. For example, I feel "safe" playing ZvP. I'm generally sure what can or can't happen at a certain time, when I need to scout etc. and consequently when I can drone and when I really need units asap. I'm obviously not doing that perfectly, but decent enough to play well vs diamond Ps. Now in ZvT ... I often feel like I've no idea what I should be doing. I suppose that means my scouting and knowledge of possible timings is awful, but yeah. That's what it is right now. I would say on average, I'm low diamond, a bit better vs P, but maybe mid-plat vs T. I'm not sure you can explain me being in diamond just by going "better macro than plat" as a few have suggested. | ||
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Banchan
United States179 Posts
In other words, they can cheese really well  | ||
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kyriores
Greece178 Posts
Actions like sending units to key spots in order to spot possible attacks, denying creep, positioning units etc. etc. require your attention, which might cause you some problems with your macro if you don't have the ability to do them along with it. Those "little" things start to become more and more significant when your macro and micro have reached an ok level. Up to this level it was possible to win by just sitting in your base, maybe do some fast expand build that your opponent wouldn't even notice, and then do 1 attack when your extra minerals have kicked in, while doing some basic harassing or defending (or just cheese/defend the cheese which is way more common). But that is not the case anymore. So I would suggest to try hard and start adding more and more elements to your playstyle. Scouting, multi-pronged attacks, denying expos like crazy, scouting again, splitting army, setting up traps for the enemy army and anything else that can give you an edge. And the most important... Keep an eye on the minimap... Even when you micro a drop.. You can't afford to lose anything ! Of course, while you do all that, your macro should be flawless. Whenever you find yourself addind more than 2 buildings or queuing units, your macro slipped( it's not the end of the world since it happens even to pros regularly but it definitely takes further improvement). If you can master the above you should be close to pro-level. After that the only thing that might further improve your game is the so called metagame which includes very specific strategies used to take advantage of the map or hard counter an expected strategy, abuse a weakness in a matchup etc. Hope I helped. Gl with your goal. (Note: I'm terran, so that may not apply to all races. Derp!) | ||
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Janders
Mexico222 Posts
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GrassEater
Sweden417 Posts
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