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[G] Revolutionizing Warp-In Pylon Control-Groups

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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elliminist
Profile Joined November 2010
Japan121 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-15 03:48:09
November 15 2011 01:54 GMT
#1
Dear Protoss,
I must sound presumptuous to write a 'guide' despite not being Main-Race Protoss. However I would like to open this set-up and technique up for discussion as I believe Protosses have not been using it effectively yet. Just hear me out first.

Background
+ Show Spoiler +
I was experimenting with hotkey set-ups for Protoss and realized some unique characteristic of MBS (Multiple Building Select) control groups. The effect of this could be that Protoss could have the most efficient form of control grouping for pylon warp-ins, meaning absolutely no reason you would 'look away' from a battle.

My theory is based originally off this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=156842&currentpage=2

However, this thread only speaks about having one pylon hotkeyed. What if they kill that Proxy after you creep forward? You have to keep 'finding it' again; this may be hard if you're mentally focusing on the battle.

What if there was a way to achieve warp-ins in key locations with minimal mouse scrolling (pushing the borders of your screen to find the proxy pylon and/or inbase defensive pylons)? What if it was possible to manage your warp-ins even including your warp prisms with this exact same technique?

Featuring Pictures (In spoilers)

Assumptions
+ Show Spoiler +
1. I have assumed here that using mouse scrolling is a less efficient way than re-centering the screen with control groups. The reason for this is less screen shaking, and hence less need to 'refocus on your mouse position on the map and finding the pylon.

2. I have also assumed that harassment and drops from multiple angles can be managed to a degree with a round of Warp-Ins when you're pushing out instead of just turtling until max.

3. My third and biggest assumption is that you do not need to 'follow' a warp prism on-screen to control it around the map and set it up in position.

If you do not believe these assumption to be true, please disregard any part of my guide.

These are my current findings of the MBS game mechanic
+ Show Spoiler +
1. If multiple buildings in a control group are double tapped to center on them, it will go to the closest one possible. I came to this understanding from using Zerg and just double tapping the 'larva usage' control group (as opposed to the individual base control groups e.g. 5-8).

This is the primary mechanic by which this technique works at all.

2. If you have a unit and a building in the same control group and you double tap, it prioritizes the building to center on, instead of the unit. This appears to work as long as you control group the building before the unit.

Quite a few Australian players use an inject method utilizing a Queen + Hatchery together in a hotkey; most notable in the international scene is Moonglade and tgun. It is actually faster than the backspace inject method at its fastest, because you simply double tap, click V for inject, and then just click on the hatchery. The best thing about this technique is that the hatchery is centered perfectly for your inject, there's absolutely no need to reposition your screen to make it happen!

3. Pylons don't have rallies. Self-explanatory really.

4. Right mouse clicking on the unit portrait centers it to that unit.


So how does this improve your Pylon Warp-In management?

To execute you need to be able to do the following:
+ Show Spoiler +
1. Knowing how to spread out Pylons well around your base to not only power, but also to Warp-In in most areas. I would consider this good Sim-City.
2. Identifying the key pylons you might want to use to Warp-In around. This is positioning.
3. Controlling a unit by moving it alongside the mini-map.
4. Using the minimap to find enemy movement and center on that area of the map.

Technique.

1. Put a control group on your Wall-Off Pylon (In this case, let's use 4)

2. Add any Proxy Pylons (All of them)

3. Add your Pylons around your base which you might warp-in around to manage drops/harrassment. (This usually becomes relevant once you start expanding)

4. Add your Warp Prism as you tech up to it in the mid-game.

5. When you want to find the closest pylon in proximity to you, double tap 4. You will automatically center on the CLOSEST pylon to where you are on the map.

Basic Technique
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
Example of random Protoss army with standard 3 control-group set-up.

[image loading]
Finding your Pylon & Warp Prism Control group. NOTE: Warp prism is not centered, meaning I just selected the group without moving the screen at all.

[image loading]
Double Tap, I get to the closest Proxy Pylon.

[image loading]
Finding a random location on map away from pylon & Army.

[image loading]
Double Tap! Straight to the Closest Proxy Pylon. Note my back-up Proxy (Near other Xel-Naga tower) in case my first Proxy Pylon is destroyed. I will automatically center on the other pylon if I need to Warp-In and my closest proxy is destroyed. No longer do I worry about being unable to reinforce in the midst of Micro!

6. When you need to position your warp prism, also just tap 4 and direct it on the mini-map. When you need to use it to Warp-In, just tap 4, single-select the Warp Prism and use the Unit Portrait to center on it. You can then Warp-In with it like any other pylon.

Managing Warp Prisms
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
Manage that Warp Prism on the minimap, queue up commands if necessary.

[image loading]
Single Select Prism

[image loading]
Instantly centered by clicking on the Unit portrait!

[image loading]
Warp in and fight as needed. And you can always go back to the other Proxy Pylons by double tapping control group 4!


Dealing with harrass
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
Scenario: Random drops / Ling Runby scouted!! Moved to area on map to scout it.

[image loading]
Immediately managed by having your screen in perfect position!

Implications and Impact of this technique
+ Show Spoiler +
* When attacking (e.g. 4 Gate) you need to constantly refuel your army. You do not need to slowly 'find' your pylon with mouse by pushing around the screen or looking at the minimap. You just double-tap the control group and find it.

* When defending a drop, you usually center on the map to see what is coming at you. From there, just double tap 4 and you are immediately placed with the CLOSEST pylon to that position on the map where the drop/harrass is coming in.

* When under the threat of Ling Runbys in PvZ, being close on the minimap to where they're coming, and double tapping to immediately bring you to the choke point makes Warp-Ining in a Zealot to block incredibly fast. You can also use the Pylon centering to get to your Sentries there (Meaning you don't need to control group armies in defense!)

* Your Warp Prism can be put in the same management group as your Warp-In Pylons, meaning you do not waste one of your primary army hotkeys to manage it individually.


Concluding thoughts:
I still have not solved usage of multiple Warp-Prisms yet with this technique. Despite this, I strongly believe using this technique will allow Protosses to seamlessly implement Warp Prisms into their play without needing to focus on re-mapping control groups or reach for weird groups not used normally.

Added:

On November 15 2011 12:07 Whiplash wrote:
Could you make a video or something to show how this is used in game?

The best I have to demonstrate is the replay I used to take screenshots of the technique. Note how minimally I used mouse scrolling ingame (only to build base pylons/robo/gateways etc), rather I relied predominantly on control groups and minimap to move across the screen in various places without trying to 'tune' my camera.

REPLAY - Against AI

Please leave thoughts.
Do you think you're really entitled to anything in this world?
TigerRawr
Profile Joined October 2011
17 Posts
November 15 2011 01:57 GMT
#2
Interesting. So basically the idea is you hotkey the closest pylon to where you are warping in and save time. You are a little verbose to say the least, but a good idea.

Personally, I hotkey my closest proxy pylon for this very idea. However, this may also be worth doing. WP must be hotkeyed as well.
elliminist
Profile Joined November 2010
Japan121 Posts
November 15 2011 01:59 GMT
#3
On November 15 2011 10:57 TigerRawr wrote:
Interesting. So basically the idea is you hotkey the closest pylon to where you are warping in and save time. You are a little verbose to say the least, but a good idea.

Personally, I hotkey my closest proxy pylon for this very idea. However, this may also be worth doing. WP must be hotkeyed as well.


No, I'm saying Protoss should hotkey EVERY pylon you might ever possibly Warp-In with. This means from the moment the game starts, you have a highly organized control-group set up which is not definitely lazy, but a means of pin-point accurately getting your camera into position to deal with anything and everything.
Do you think you're really entitled to anything in this world?
mizU
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States12125 Posts
November 15 2011 02:00 GMT
#4
Doesn't the camera go to where you have the most of something?

And why can't you use Fkeys?
if happy ever afters did exist <3 @watamizu_
ander
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada403 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-15 02:05:20
November 15 2011 02:04 GMT
#5
Wow, that's a pretty cool idea. I think i'm going to give this a shot.

I think that someone that uses F-keys efficiently probably won't have too much use for this technique, but if you're like me and don't use them (i'm lazy =p) then this will have a very positive impact.

Thanks for the guide, looking forward to trying this :D
Mr. Nefarious
Profile Joined December 2010
United States515 Posts
November 15 2011 02:05 GMT
#6
This is a really cool method, very interesting results. Seems really powerful in the right hands.
저그 화이팅
elliminist
Profile Joined November 2010
Japan121 Posts
November 15 2011 02:07 GMT
#7
On November 15 2011 11:00 mizU wrote:
Doesn't the camera go to where you have the most of something?

And why can't you use Fkeys?


From my understanding of this in the case of buildings it centers around the closest building. In my screenshots for example three of my pylons in the control group were quite close together.

F keys are actually supposed to be the absolute best method of base management. However, in practice you don't even see NA or most Korean pros at the highest levels use F keys (This is my conclusion after watching FPViews of Idra, Losira, Boxer, Nada etc including their BW Keyboard views). I believe it has to do with the fact you need to move your hand off the neutral position used for normal 4567 BW macro.

I would like to note though that MC does use F keys for base management.
Do you think you're really entitled to anything in this world?
MK4512
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada938 Posts
November 15 2011 02:15 GMT
#8
This is actually really really cool... I am totally going to rebind my w to all for me to put a pylon in the hotkey!
Chill: "Please let us know when you will be streaming yourself eating a hat so I can put it on the calendar. Thanks."
W2
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States1177 Posts
November 15 2011 02:27 GMT
#9
Unfortunately all my hotkeys are used up, so I won't be able to utilize this. For those who use fewer hotkeys, this would be a great tool!

I think I'm going to try use screen-capture (Fkeys) to save my proxy pylon. Have always wanted to but never really forced myself into the habit of doing so.
Hi
stokes17
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1411 Posts
November 15 2011 02:38 GMT
#10
I just bind one of my screen caps to Q and use that for my proxy pylon. With my Bases on F1 F2 F3, I can pretty much get anywhere I need in one action.
caradoc
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada3022 Posts
November 15 2011 02:40 GMT
#11
I thought everyone did this.
you can also use location keys, rather than actually hotkeying a pylon.

I use a floating location key that I change from time to time depending on where is relevant to warp in the bulk of my army. I also sometimes use a second location for a second proxy for harass or what have you.
Salvation a la mode and a cup of tea...
moocow2009
Profile Joined October 2011
77 Posts
November 15 2011 02:41 GMT
#12
Interesting. I usually just click on the minimap where my closest (or what I think is my closest) proxy pylon is, but I can see how that causes unnecessary thought in the middle of a battle and is slower. I'll try this out, though I usually have all of my convenient hotkeys bound. Maybe I'll remap tab or something. Is "Q" used for anything?
elliminist
Profile Joined November 2010
Japan121 Posts
November 15 2011 02:47 GMT
#13
To those who are using F keys (and props up to you guys for learning the game BW style), how do you manage your warp prisms? This method manages pylons AND warp prisms together at once without needing to adjust your play and control groups just for the warp prism. Everything is accounted for from the moment the game starts.

How do you manage losing your first proxy pylon as you creep forward?

-
@ Moocow:

You might not want to remap Tab, since it's often used to change control group caster hotkeys (so you have sentry ff, or blink to micro with, or storms etc).
Q is used for Queens if you play multiple races; I feel like that the Q mapping only works for Protoss-only players.
Tilde Key (~) might be a good option to remap for a screen bind. Only issue I might see is if you backspace inject with Tilde
Do you think you're really entitled to anything in this world?
Herr Wilhelm
Profile Joined July 2011
Chile170 Posts
November 15 2011 02:50 GMT
#14
Wow thanks, nice tip, I'm pretty sure it will be a lot useful ^^
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
moocow2009
Profile Joined October 2011
77 Posts
November 15 2011 02:56 GMT
#15
On November 15 2011 11:47 elliminist wrote:
To those who are using F keys (and props up to you guys for learning the game BW style), how do you manage your warp prisms? This method manages pylons AND warp prisms together at once without needing to adjust your play and control groups just for the warp prism. Everything is accounted for from the moment the game starts.

How do you manage losing your first proxy pylon as you creep forward?

-
@ Moocow:

You might not want to remap Tab, since it's often used to change control group caster hotkeys (so you have sentry ff, or blink to micro with, or storms etc).
Q is used for Queens if you play multiple races; I feel like that the Q mapping only works for Protoss-only players.
Tilde Key (~) might be a good option to remap for a screen bind. Only issue I might see is if you backspace inject with Tilde


Oh, right, forgot about that use of tab. I already have tilde remapped to backspace... I guess I mostly play Protoss, so Q should be okay.

It's annoying how few keys there are in the "convenient" area of your keyboard.
sorrowptoss
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Canada1431 Posts
November 15 2011 02:58 GMT
#16
This is far from stupid, it's actually something really cool to experiment. Thanks for incepting me with this, will check it out on ladder.
CecilSunkure
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2829 Posts
November 15 2011 02:59 GMT
#17
Cool idea, but not ideal. You'd have to play assuming you have correct hotkey setups. In a close game a mistake like the screen jumping to the wrong pylon unexpectedly will result in a loss. I'd much rather use my reliable minimap clicking skills, or fkeys to do the job.
moocow2009
Profile Joined October 2011
77 Posts
November 15 2011 03:04 GMT
#18
On November 15 2011 11:59 CecilSunkure wrote:
Cool idea, but not ideal. You'd have to play assuming you have correct hotkey setups. In a close game a mistake like the screen jumping to the wrong pylon unexpectedly will result in a loss. I'd much rather use my reliable minimap clicking skills, or fkeys to do the job.


If I understand correctly, the idea is that you hotkey all your pylons that you expect you might ever warp-in from, and then when you hit the hotkey, it takes your screen to the closest one. I don't really see how it could take you to the wrong pylon -- when is the closest pylon that you thought you might want to warp in from ever going to be the "wrong" pylon? I guess if it's still building that would be a problem, but as long as you're careful about that, I can't ever see it being a problem.
Whiplash
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States2928 Posts
November 15 2011 03:07 GMT
#19
Could you make a video or something to show how this is used in game?
Cinematographer / Steadicam Operator. Former Starcraft commentator/player
DeltruS
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada2214 Posts
November 15 2011 03:11 GMT
#20
Cool idea. I do this with overlords already, and bind all of my overlords to 6 when I make them. That way, when I need an overseer, I can just double tap 6 to get the nearest overlord.

Binding overlords to 6 also helps for mid game overlord spread and drops.
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