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I know that most Terran probably suffer from Mass Upgraded Speedlots also, but can anyone give me any helpfull advice when it comes to playing against this?
Maybe tell me how you guys respond to it personally.
I have brainstormed, tried BF Hellions with armor upgrades and 3-3 bio (lol)
Mass Marauder doesnt do too well unless you have enough room. ( you cant always choose where to fight ) More marines in the mix I guess works best, but too many will result in a squishy composition, especially when it comes to collosus in the mix.
The only way I beat mass speedlot 3-3 is with panic drops everywhere, (lol) or I just had a excellent engagement.
How about MORE Ghosts? Reapers ftw? I usually have about 8 Ghosts on a control group, but how about more? EMP / Mass Snipe and auto attack from Ghost / Marauder?
I have a replay but im not going to attach it, im just asking for general advice against a few stalker / Plenty Speedlots / few Collosus and maybe a archon or two. ( HT if it last I guess) Basicly Mass upgraded Speedlots! Damnit, I make it sound like the entire Protoss arsenal! ^_^
I did search, didnt find useful results. (surpringly)
Im using More Marine, Marauder, Medivac, few Ghost and Viking atm.
Any tips?
Im Top Platinum Terran.
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LOTS of marines. The biggest mistake people make against zealot heavy comps is too many marauders, just because they slow. A ratio of like 3:1 with marines I think is the sweetspot. Good kiting as well.
As for it being squishy - against collosus, get an imperial fuckton of vikings, and against templar, you just have to spread really hardcore. I find engaging from multiple flanks can really help dissolve these issues too.
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I usually cut out some marauders and add more marines, ghosts, and vikings.
Extra vikings makes the colossus die faster and the ghosts and marines are both really good against Zealots. You also have to stutter step or they'll tear your army apart. Basically just a good engagement (don't let all your marines get AoE'd) and good micro, if you emp all the hts/zealots and have a good deal of vikings you'll clean his army up pretty easily.
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If you post replays we can tell you where you went wrong.
The easiest way to undo speedlots is using emp with simcity siege tanks and marines. Try placing bunkers and/or rax in front of your units, the chargelots are nice but they tend to clump up and in a tight quarter, all your marines will be able to fight while the zealots wont be able to.
Its rare to see a zealot only army, they will usually be accompanied by archons or some void rays since they barely use gas at all if you count charge and upgrades. What's funny is you will soon see cheaper upgrades for zealots so you may want to get it under control right away.
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Another thing you can try to do is start doing more drops as soon as you scout that they're going heavy zealot. They won't have many Stalkers or Blink, so it's very hard for them to effectively respond to drops. As long as you pay attention to your drops, you should basically be able to do some amount of damage with each one for free, making their end-game push that much weaker.
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I hear of this experamental mech vs Toss (or bio mech, im not sure - wouldnt mind people uploading some replays)
I hear you all, thanks. We can jump to the debate of him tech switcing to HT if I get too many Vikings though. I guess it would still be best to play with a mixed composition for Toss. Thanks again, im off to catch some sleep.
Ill try better spread and flanks, my latency makes stutter step a little harder than average. Im decent at it though.
Edit: Im Terran, Im always on those Dropships! :D
Guess I Could camp a couple outside his base for when he pushes out.
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the answer is just to micro better and have more marines in your MMM. against mass chargelot if you have more marauders than marines you're doing it wrong. if you post a replay we can analyze other holes in your play because i doubt you're "only" losing to mass chargelots.
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Replay? However, a Protoss player that skimps on Stalkers (which suck) in favour of more Zealots should, simply put, never have any Colossi. You can be a lot more active with your Vikings because without a significant number of Stalkers (which impacts both his upgrades and zealot count) you can mostly just fly around and shoot down any Colossi you see.
It's also important to keep up with your stutter step.
On composition you've already hit the nail on the head, more marines is good  . He won't have many Colossi if you are being active with your vikings and any HTs should be EMPed ASAP.
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ghost are the way to go
i go 1st rax reactor then built 2nd one and built tech lab
make marines and from 2nd rax marauder and uppgrade slow shells
when 1st marauder is out i take my force add a woker to them and poke and rally other units them
built 2nd gas add 3rd rax and ghost academy
if he has expansion then try to make as much dmg as possbile
immportant is that you get stim as soon slow shells is done
if he is has no expansion then scan what he is doing
normaly they go 3 gates or or 2 gates robo
and guard the ramp with sentries
if is that the case built ebay on their expansion but dont finish it built it to 95%
if he dmg it you can aport it and get your money back
by the time your 3rd rax is done and add another tech lab
add 4 ghost +marines/ marauder and make a push at 10:00
if his army is zealot heavy dont worry ghost do 20 dmg to their amor and you have like 4-5 emp
to win the fight
and the game
think about it if he has 5 zealot charging you and you make a emp to them you do 250 dmg to them
you emp their sentires so they less effetive to cut your army
toss army that get emped is so weak that you could win the fight without stim
and like i said zealot sentries are light amor so you do 20 dmg with ghost vs them
imo i would not recomment reaper
their built time is as long as of ghost 40 sec
and 50 hp is quite low for the cost
think about it 2 reaper cost as much as a ghost but the ghost do more dmg thx to emp and snipe rounds
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BF Hellions. No other way around it.
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On November 06 2011 16:20 ZiegFeld wrote:
BF Hellions. No other way around it.
You said, in another thread, you're 'top 50 GM' and then you say blue flame hellions.
Yeaaaaaaaa..... blue flame hellions definitly don't do it against chargelots with upgrades. Hellions good to harass, but in straight up combat take too much baby sitting, and you have to be kiting as well so good luck getting side shots. And if it's 'no other way around it' why doesn't ANY terran get blue flame hellions?
So, in a round about way -- I'm calling you a liar.
"I'm Master league I'm Master league"
Calm down I was top 50 GM league and I've microed FAR worse than this. I like the guide, but this build just doesn't really have potential. This is a gimmicky one in a while build at best, and pretty much relies on surprising the opponent. Just one step above cheese.
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Good emps and lots of marines. I use to use bfh as a reaction to a player going mass upgrade gateway, (because hts are light too), to a good deal of success. Not sure why I stopped now that i think about it, I think I just preferred a more standard style of play. Anyway, the key is micro. It's pretty hard to handle so much, because you need to stim+kite (which takes up a ton of apm anyways), emp, snipe, and spread hellions. Remember late game anything there tends to be huge battle balls, and zealots can get a good surround, so you need to position your hellions on the sides. Ideally you would take the initial charge damage with hellions while you emp+stim, kite a bit to get shells onto the army and back up a bit, and then re-position the hellions, and continue to kite.
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If a P plays a lot of chargelots, he mostly doesnt have a lot of stalkers, so abuse him with a lot of drops, he cant get rid of the dropship easy.
This works best before he has templar tech for Feedback.
Composiotion wise bio works just fine, but as people said, dont go too marauder heavy, have some ghosts, and you need to kite nonstop through the engagement. Zealots are already pretty strong, but if Archons hit your blobbed marines, thats another story.
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Against gateway compositions like chargelot archon, you want your infrastructure to have more reactors (cannot stress enough how good this is) and less techlabs.
More mineral dumping, more gas stockpiling.
More marines, more ghost production, more medivacs, more upgrades.
Zealots have a lot of hit points, so you want the marine's DPS and the ghosts anti-light attacks (emps!).
On a 3 base economy your infrastructure should look like:
4-5 Reactored Barracks
3 Tech Lab Barracks
1 Reactored Starport
1 Ghost Academy (mobeius!!)
2 Engie bays, 1 Armory.
Chargelot archon is really good because it's a cheap way to get supply.
Zealots are gas free, Templars are cheap in minerals, so you can effectively spend your resources really quickly with warpgates and spend chronoboost on upgrades.
You want to be doing the same thing: marines for the base mineral army, ghosts and medivacs for the gas dump (upgrades son!).
**BLUE FLAME HELLIONS ARE RETARDED: UPGRADES DO NOT STACK; NO STIM OR PURPOSE AGAINST NON-LIGHT UNITS. DON'T GET THEM**
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Blue Flame Helions are really the answer.
I'm a Protoss Player myself.
BF Helions are really scary.
Sometimes Terrans will play Hellion-Thor-Ghosts. It's just so powerful, i don't know how to beat it.
I tried Zealot-Archon, it failed hard.
I tried Mass-Immortal , it failed hard, because of the strike cannon.
Helions are very very underrated. Helions that you can't reach, are VERY scary. Trust me
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More chargelot meaning the protoss won't have much to hit your vikings, therefore if you have a shit load of vikings it wouldn't matter how many colossi the protoss have as you can snipe them from 937107283 range.
Besides favouring marines over marauders, you have ghosts to instantly take out the shields of all the chargelots.
Vikings > Colossi
Ghosts > HT, Archon, Chargelots
Protoss don't really have an answer honestly if you have units in the right composition. Remember always get LOTS of ghosts once you have a mass of vikings because the protoss would definitely mix lots of Archons in his army once he realize colossi won't cut it. Don't spam all the EMPs at the start of the battle just because you can(unless you can hit every single one of his units). Usually archons would fall behind the chargelots when you are kiting, always save some EMPs for them too. Would you rather a shieldless sad zealot, or a 10 hp archon?
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What are you guys talking about, Hellions are awesome, most people just forget to switch them in battle mode before engaging zealots.
No but really the key to fighting this heavy upgrade zealot style is just to stall the game until you have 3/3 upgrades yourself. To do that you just place buildings a bit everywhere on the map like partially completed supply depot walls barracks and such in choke points and just kite the zealots all the way back to your base. The stupid zealots in the back will attack the buildings and you'll easily pick off the remaining zealots. Same thing if you are facing stalker heavy compositions, always fly a factory on top of your army to mess with the AI.
Late game comp should have 5 or 6 ghosts, 3-4 vikings per enemy colossi, and rest in MMM with more marines if zealot heavy and more rauders if stalker heavy.
Also, drops with low energy medivacs during the attack work well obviously.
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simcity siege tanks
Please give good advises on this thread.
Siege tanks are the worst units ever aginst Zealot, and they cost A LOT. DON'T EVER DO TANKS against such an army. More Marines, EMP's, are the key to kil Zealots. And move only groups of units, when you kite don't move you whole army, do it slowly, that you can constantly shoot on the Zealots.
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Blue Flame hellions, whether you like it or not. Though i fail to see how mass Zealot can be effective without colossus/storm against a good ol' standard bioball simply because of kiting and engaging in good positions.
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Just watch the pros.
No pro goes for BFH, except when they go mech.
EMP, good kiting and a healthy marine count is the best way to go.
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EPT
