• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:37
CEST 01:37
KST 08:37
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru3BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL47Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, Zoun, Solar, Creator4
Community News
BGE Stara Zagora 2025 - Replay Pack1Weekly Cups (June 2-8): herO doubles down1[BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates9GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th13Weekly Cups (May 27-June 1): ByuN goes back-to-back0
StarCraft 2
General
Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru BGE Stara Zagora 2025 - Replay Pack Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation StarCraft 1 & 2 Added to Xbox Game Pass
Tourneys
[GSL 2025] Code S:Season 2 - RO8 - Group A Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) Bellum Gens Elite: Stara Zagora 2025 $3,500 WardiTV European League 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ FlaSh Witnesses SCV Pull Off the Impossible vs Shu StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans?
Tourneys
[ASL19] Grand Finals RECOVER LOST BTC USDT FUNDS RECLAIMER COMPANY [BSL20] GosuLeague RO16 - Tue & Wed 20:00+CET NA Team League 6/8/2025
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread What do you want from future RTS games? Armies of Exigo - YesYes? Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
A Better Routine For Progame…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 25247 users

Catz's 7 pool on Shakuras Plateau (ZvP) - Page 2

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 Next All
mizU
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States12125 Posts
October 03 2011 15:01 GMT
#21
I don't think it's necessary to have a guide, but maybe this could serve as a discussion?

I've been 6/7 pooled on 4-player maps without locked spawn positions like Shakuras, and it seems like Zerg should 6 pooling because after the initial 6 lings, they can just drone and catch up after killing a pylon and forge and forcing lost mining time.
if happy ever afters did exist <3 @watamizu_
ALPINA
Profile Joined May 2010
3791 Posts
October 03 2011 16:05 GMT
#22
Just tried this build and at the exact time my 6 lings came his cannon warped in, so it appeared totally useless push. Even if I would made those 6 lings like few seconds sooner still I don't see this working vs. toss who does not go nexus first.
You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity
FairForever
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada2392 Posts
October 03 2011 16:19 GMT
#23
On October 04 2011 01:05 Alpina wrote:
Just tried this build and at the exact time my 6 lings came his cannon warped in, so it appeared totally useless push. Even if I would made those 6 lings like few seconds sooner still I don't see this working vs. toss who does not go nexus first.


That's why you 6pool, 6pool will get you there in time before cannon warps in (unless it's something like a 10 forge which is bad vs standard play)
Ben...
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada3485 Posts
October 03 2011 16:37 GMT
#24
On October 04 2011 01:19 FairForever wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 04 2011 01:05 Alpina wrote:
Just tried this build and at the exact time my 6 lings came his cannon warped in, so it appeared totally useless push. Even if I would made those 6 lings like few seconds sooner still I don't see this working vs. toss who does not go nexus first.


That's why you 6pool, 6pool will get you there in time before cannon warps in (unless it's something like a 10 forge which is bad vs standard play)
Yes, I 6pool. It hits just enough earlier that you can cause damage without cannons being up yet. My goal with this on both Shakuras and Tal'Darim Altar (It works on that map too, especially if they don't scout you first, though its window of effectiveness is smaller.) is never to kill them but to a) throw them off, and b) force them to build cannons in their main or a bunch of extra buildings. If they throw down a pylon and 2-3 cannons in their main, then the damage is done because I only built the 6 zerglings, and went straight into drone production. I've watched worker count on replays of these games and the Zerg usually ends up even with the Protoss, but they don't have 300-450 minerals of useless cannons sitting in their main or a bunch of extra buildings at their natural (If they panic and start building the great wall of Hongun. If that happens then you are in great shape).
"Cliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide" -Tastosis
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10321 Posts
October 03 2011 16:41 GMT
#25
this is just a 7 pool no? except with the specific followup of a 16 hatch

anwyays, why does he double extractor trick? If you mine the close minerals you can actually build an overlord and still have 150 minerals when it pops to make lings
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
Skyro
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1823 Posts
October 03 2011 16:50 GMT
#26
On October 04 2011 01:37 Ben... wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 04 2011 01:19 FairForever wrote:
On October 04 2011 01:05 Alpina wrote:
Just tried this build and at the exact time my 6 lings came his cannon warped in, so it appeared totally useless push. Even if I would made those 6 lings like few seconds sooner still I don't see this working vs. toss who does not go nexus first.


That's why you 6pool, 6pool will get you there in time before cannon warps in (unless it's something like a 10 forge which is bad vs standard play)
Yes, I 6pool. It hits just enough earlier that you can cause damage without cannons being up yet. My goal with this on both Shakuras and Tal'Darim Altar (It works on that map too, especially if they don't scout you first, though its window of effectiveness is smaller.) is never to kill them but to a) throw them off, and b) force them to build cannons in their main or a bunch of extra buildings. If they throw down a pylon and 2-3 cannons in their main, then the damage is done because I only built the 6 zerglings, and went straight into drone production. I've watched worker count on replays of these games and the Zerg usually ends up even with the Protoss, but they don't have 300-450 minerals of useless cannons sitting in their main or a bunch of extra buildings at their natural (If they panic and start building the great wall of Hongun. If that happens then you are in great shape).


On Tal'Darim you can wall-off a 6-pool in time if the pylon scout guesses correctly and scouts the zerg first, so that's a risk right there. On shakuras you won't be able to wall off even if they scout it first, so it's much more solid on that map.

Also I'm not sure why a Protoss player would build more than 1 cannon. 1 cannon in the mineral line plus probe micro is able to hold until the zealot comes out even if you stream lings and go all-in.
raaaiiiii
Profile Joined January 2011
United States89 Posts
October 03 2011 16:55 GMT
#27
I was watching SlayerS_YugiOh stream last night and he was 7 pooling every Protoss he came across... He managed to get in the base every time, forcing a cannon in the main mineral line instead of at the ramp. He got his expo at 18, always before the Protoss.
Gladiator6
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden7024 Posts
October 03 2011 16:58 GMT
#28
I can easily see you lose to this if protoss just goes WhiteRa style and then he smashes the lings and counterattacks with mass zealots on 2 gateways.
Flying, sOs, free, Light, Soulkey & ZerO
Zelniq
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States7166 Posts
October 03 2011 17:03 GMT
#29
On Shakuras Plateau, if the protoss player scouts on 9 after pylon, and places his buildings correctly, he should take zero damage from a 6 or 7 pool. What I mean by 0 damage is he should have to pull no extra probes, lose no buildings, lose no units. Just 9 pylon, 13 forge, 14 gate, 14 cannon, 14 gate. the Forge + 2 gates completely walls off the natural's ramp in time before any lings can reach it, and the cannon will finish at around the same time the lings arrive. The protoss can even cancel the 2nd gateway before it finishes and rebuild with a cybernetics core if he wants.

Protoss is then ahead in every way, only having to cut probes for a short time, and this is at 14 rather than 6 or 7 which obviously hurts the zerg's econ more than it hurt the protoss's.

The only reason it has a chance to be somewhat effective on shakuras is if they 1: Don't know how to properly place their first pylon to make a proper wall (probably most common among many ladder protosses), or don't scout after 9 pylon.
ModeratorBlame yourself or God
Sbrubbles
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil5776 Posts
October 03 2011 17:19 GMT
#30
On October 04 2011 02:03 Zelniq wrote:
On Shakuras Plateau, if the protoss player scouts on 9 after pylon, and places his buildings correctly, he should take zero damage from a 6 or 7 pool. What I mean by 0 damage is he should have to pull no extra probes, lose no buildings, lose no units. Just 9 pylon, 13 forge, 14 gate, 14 cannon, 14 gate. the Forge + 2 gates completely walls off the natural's ramp in time before any lings can reach it, and the cannon will finish at around the same time the lings arrive. The protoss can even cancel the 2nd gateway before it finishes and rebuild with a cybernetics core if he wants.

Protoss is then ahead in every way, only having to cut probes for a short time, and this is at 14 rather than 6 or 7 which obviously hurts the zerg's econ more than it hurt the protoss's.

The only reason it has a chance to be somewhat effective on shakuras is if they 1: Don't know how to properly place their first pylon to make a proper wall (probably most common among many ladder protosses), or don't scout after 9 pylon.


On October 04 2011 01:55 raaaiiiii wrote:
I was watching SlayerS_YugiOh stream last night and he was 7 pooling every Protoss he came across... He managed to get in the base every time, forcing a cannon in the main mineral line instead of at the ramp. He got his expo at 18, always before the Protoss.


I love how these threads that discuss early pools always have credible sources saying opposite things.
Bora Pain minha porra!
Zelniq
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States7166 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-03 17:29:39
October 03 2011 17:27 GMT
#31
i'm talking only about shakuras where you only need to scout 2 bases that are fairly close together, and there's an easy walloff. He didnt specify what map, the other ladder maps with same easy walloffs are larger maps that you have to scout 3 spawns.

if someone really is doubtful I wouldn't mind playing a quick game where you 6/7 pool vs me on Shakuras, just PM me
ModeratorBlame yourself or God
Chemist391
Profile Joined October 2010
United States366 Posts
October 03 2011 18:25 GMT
#32
On October 04 2011 02:03 Zelniq wrote:
On Shakuras Plateau, if the protoss player scouts on 9 after pylon, and places his buildings correctly, he should take zero damage from a 6 or 7 pool. What I mean by 0 damage is he should have to pull no extra probes, lose no buildings, lose no units. Just 9 pylon, 13 forge, 14 gate, 14 cannon, 14 gate. the Forge + 2 gates completely walls off the natural's ramp in time before any lings can reach it, and the cannon will finish at around the same time the lings arrive. The protoss can even cancel the 2nd gateway before it finishes and rebuild with a cybernetics core if he wants.

Protoss is then ahead in every way, only having to cut probes for a short time, and this is at 14 rather than 6 or 7 which obviously hurts the zerg's econ more than it hurt the protoss's.

The only reason it has a chance to be somewhat effective on shakuras is if they 1: Don't know how to properly place their first pylon to make a proper wall (probably most common among many ladder protosses), or don't scout after 9 pylon.


This. Go to page 1 and watch the replay I posted of myself vs CatZ from MLG Anaheim.

Yes, I lost the game, but I lost for reasons completely ancillary to the 7pool.
roymarthyup
Profile Joined April 2010
1442 Posts
October 03 2011 18:31 GMT
#33
On October 04 2011 02:19 Sbrubbles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 04 2011 02:03 Zelniq wrote:
On Shakuras Plateau, if the protoss player scouts on 9 after pylon, and places his buildings correctly, he should take zero damage from a 6 or 7 pool. What I mean by 0 damage is he should have to pull no extra probes, lose no buildings, lose no units. Just 9 pylon, 13 forge, 14 gate, 14 cannon, 14 gate. the Forge + 2 gates completely walls off the natural's ramp in time before any lings can reach it, and the cannon will finish at around the same time the lings arrive. The protoss can even cancel the 2nd gateway before it finishes and rebuild with a cybernetics core if he wants.

Protoss is then ahead in every way, only having to cut probes for a short time, and this is at 14 rather than 6 or 7 which obviously hurts the zerg's econ more than it hurt the protoss's.

The only reason it has a chance to be somewhat effective on shakuras is if they 1: Don't know how to properly place their first pylon to make a proper wall (probably most common among many ladder protosses), or don't scout after 9 pylon.


Show nested quote +
On October 04 2011 01:55 raaaiiiii wrote:
I was watching SlayerS_YugiOh stream last night and he was 7 pooling every Protoss he came across... He managed to get in the base every time, forcing a cannon in the main mineral line instead of at the ramp. He got his expo at 18, always before the Protoss.


I love how these threads that discuss early pools always have credible sources saying opposite things.


nah, every time someone wins with a 6-7pool against FFE, the toss is just bad

many zergs here are saying they are winning with this build. that just means there are MANY bad tosses out there who dont know how to defend this.

even top korean grandmaster tosses are dying to this. it just means they dont know how to counter it

but this is very easy to counter. you can fully wall off before the lings arrive, and take no damage

but 99.99% of tosses on the ladder dont know how to counter this so freely use it until that fact changes
GypsyBeast
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada630 Posts
October 03 2011 18:40 GMT
#34
dose this warrant its own thread? This has been around for ever and is super unreliable.
Ya? Well ill BM you harder! Another win in 10 seconds flat! -Rainbow Dash playing SC2.
raaaiiiii
Profile Joined January 2011
United States89 Posts
October 03 2011 20:42 GMT
#35
+ Show Spoiler +

On October 04 2011 02:03 Zelniq wrote:
On Shakuras Plateau, if the protoss player scouts on 9 after pylon, and places his buildings correctly, he should take zero damage from a 6 or 7 pool. What I mean by 0 damage is he should have to pull no extra probes, lose no buildings, lose no units. Just 9 pylon, 13 forge, 14 gate, 14 cannon, 14 gate. the Forge + 2 gates completely walls off the natural's ramp in time before any lings can reach it, and the cannon will finish at around the same time the lings arrive. The protoss can even cancel the 2nd gateway before it finishes and rebuild with a cybernetics core if he wants.

Protoss is then ahead in every way, only having to cut probes for a short time, and this is at 14 rather than 6 or 7 which obviously hurts the zerg's econ more than it hurt the protoss's.

The only reason it has a chance to be somewhat effective on shakuras is if they 1: Don't know how to properly place their first pylon to make a proper wall (probably most common among many ladder protosses), or don't scout after 9 pylon.


On October 04 2011 01:55 raaaiiiii wrote:
I was watching SlayerS_YugiOh stream last night and he was 7 pooling every Protoss he came across... He managed to get in the base every time, forcing a cannon in the main mineral line instead of at the ramp. He got his expo at 18, always before the Protoss.


On October 04 2011 02:19 Sbrubbles wrote:
I love how these threads that discuss early pools always have credible sources saying opposite things.


Taldarim and Antiga are the two maps I can recall watching him play on.
FairForever
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada2392 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-03 20:45:54
October 03 2011 20:45 GMT
#36
On October 04 2011 03:31 roymarthyup wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 04 2011 02:19 Sbrubbles wrote:
On October 04 2011 02:03 Zelniq wrote:
On Shakuras Plateau, if the protoss player scouts on 9 after pylon, and places his buildings correctly, he should take zero damage from a 6 or 7 pool. What I mean by 0 damage is he should have to pull no extra probes, lose no buildings, lose no units. Just 9 pylon, 13 forge, 14 gate, 14 cannon, 14 gate. the Forge + 2 gates completely walls off the natural's ramp in time before any lings can reach it, and the cannon will finish at around the same time the lings arrive. The protoss can even cancel the 2nd gateway before it finishes and rebuild with a cybernetics core if he wants.

Protoss is then ahead in every way, only having to cut probes for a short time, and this is at 14 rather than 6 or 7 which obviously hurts the zerg's econ more than it hurt the protoss's.

The only reason it has a chance to be somewhat effective on shakuras is if they 1: Don't know how to properly place their first pylon to make a proper wall (probably most common among many ladder protosses), or don't scout after 9 pylon.


On October 04 2011 01:55 raaaiiiii wrote:
I was watching SlayerS_YugiOh stream last night and he was 7 pooling every Protoss he came across... He managed to get in the base every time, forcing a cannon in the main mineral line instead of at the ramp. He got his expo at 18, always before the Protoss.


I love how these threads that discuss early pools always have credible sources saying opposite things.


nah, every time someone wins with a 6-7pool against FFE, the toss is just bad

many zergs here are saying they are winning with this build. that just means there are MANY bad tosses out there who dont know how to defend this.

even top korean grandmaster tosses are dying to this. it just means they dont know how to counter it

but this is very easy to counter. you can fully wall off before the lings arrive, and take no damage

but 99.99% of tosses on the ladder dont know how to counter this so freely use it until that fact changes


What are you talking about? It's not easy to counter it at all if you don't scout it. On TDA LE it's impossible to wall off before lings get there... well, that's not true. You can wall off, but you won't have a cannon up. I think you can do it if you go something like 10pylon 10forge but that's not standard, and that is a hit to your econ if you aren't facing an early pool.

PS: Also on MLG Metal/Shattered/Xel'Naga, you have that depot down so it's even more risky.
roymarthyup
Profile Joined April 2010
1442 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-03 21:01:54
October 03 2011 20:57 GMT
#37
On October 04 2011 05:45 FairForever wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 04 2011 03:31 roymarthyup wrote:
On October 04 2011 02:19 Sbrubbles wrote:
On October 04 2011 02:03 Zelniq wrote:
On Shakuras Plateau, if the protoss player scouts on 9 after pylon, and places his buildings correctly, he should take zero damage from a 6 or 7 pool. What I mean by 0 damage is he should have to pull no extra probes, lose no buildings, lose no units. Just 9 pylon, 13 forge, 14 gate, 14 cannon, 14 gate. the Forge + 2 gates completely walls off the natural's ramp in time before any lings can reach it, and the cannon will finish at around the same time the lings arrive. The protoss can even cancel the 2nd gateway before it finishes and rebuild with a cybernetics core if he wants.

Protoss is then ahead in every way, only having to cut probes for a short time, and this is at 14 rather than 6 or 7 which obviously hurts the zerg's econ more than it hurt the protoss's.

The only reason it has a chance to be somewhat effective on shakuras is if they 1: Don't know how to properly place their first pylon to make a proper wall (probably most common among many ladder protosses), or don't scout after 9 pylon.


On October 04 2011 01:55 raaaiiiii wrote:
I was watching SlayerS_YugiOh stream last night and he was 7 pooling every Protoss he came across... He managed to get in the base every time, forcing a cannon in the main mineral line instead of at the ramp. He got his expo at 18, always before the Protoss.


I love how these threads that discuss early pools always have credible sources saying opposite things.


nah, every time someone wins with a 6-7pool against FFE, the toss is just bad

many zergs here are saying they are winning with this build. that just means there are MANY bad tosses out there who dont know how to defend this.

even top korean grandmaster tosses are dying to this. it just means they dont know how to counter it

but this is very easy to counter. you can fully wall off before the lings arrive, and take no damage

but 99.99% of tosses on the ladder dont know how to counter this so freely use it until that fact changes


What are you talking about? It's not easy to counter it at all if you don't scout it. On TDA LE it's impossible to wall off before lings get there... well, that's not true. You can wall off, but you won't have a cannon up. I think you can do it if you go something like 10pylon 10forge but that's not standard, and that is a hit to your econ if you aren't facing an early pool.

PS: Also on MLG Metal/Shattered/Xel'Naga, you have that depot down so it's even more risky.



1) on TDA LE, it is possible to wall off before lings get there

2) if point 1 is true, im right

3) if you think point 1 is not true, feel free to pm me your info and we can play a game sometime

4) im talking about with 14forge. again, yes its possible. if you want to see how, feel free to pm me

5) this is extremely easy to stop. if point1 is true, then that means 6pool pretty much should never do any damage to a toss who is doing a safe FFE with a 14forge. and because point1 is true, it means everything i have said in this post is true

6) FFE is bad on xelnaga / metal. but for other maps feel free to pm me if you want to see how 6pool is a instant loss to a toss doing a safe FFE




regardless, 99.999% of tosses on the ladder do not know how to do a safe FFE, which involes scouting at 9 and at 12 with a 14forge. so feel free to keep beating tosses on the ladder with 6pool until they learn how to do the safe FFE
Skyro
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1823 Posts
October 03 2011 23:14 GMT
#38
On October 04 2011 05:57 roymarthyup wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 04 2011 05:45 FairForever wrote:
On October 04 2011 03:31 roymarthyup wrote:
On October 04 2011 02:19 Sbrubbles wrote:
On October 04 2011 02:03 Zelniq wrote:
On Shakuras Plateau, if the protoss player scouts on 9 after pylon, and places his buildings correctly, he should take zero damage from a 6 or 7 pool. What I mean by 0 damage is he should have to pull no extra probes, lose no buildings, lose no units. Just 9 pylon, 13 forge, 14 gate, 14 cannon, 14 gate. the Forge + 2 gates completely walls off the natural's ramp in time before any lings can reach it, and the cannon will finish at around the same time the lings arrive. The protoss can even cancel the 2nd gateway before it finishes and rebuild with a cybernetics core if he wants.

Protoss is then ahead in every way, only having to cut probes for a short time, and this is at 14 rather than 6 or 7 which obviously hurts the zerg's econ more than it hurt the protoss's.

The only reason it has a chance to be somewhat effective on shakuras is if they 1: Don't know how to properly place their first pylon to make a proper wall (probably most common among many ladder protosses), or don't scout after 9 pylon.


On October 04 2011 01:55 raaaiiiii wrote:
I was watching SlayerS_YugiOh stream last night and he was 7 pooling every Protoss he came across... He managed to get in the base every time, forcing a cannon in the main mineral line instead of at the ramp. He got his expo at 18, always before the Protoss.


I love how these threads that discuss early pools always have credible sources saying opposite things.


nah, every time someone wins with a 6-7pool against FFE, the toss is just bad

many zergs here are saying they are winning with this build. that just means there are MANY bad tosses out there who dont know how to defend this.

even top korean grandmaster tosses are dying to this. it just means they dont know how to counter it

but this is very easy to counter. you can fully wall off before the lings arrive, and take no damage

but 99.99% of tosses on the ladder dont know how to counter this so freely use it until that fact changes


What are you talking about? It's not easy to counter it at all if you don't scout it. On TDA LE it's impossible to wall off before lings get there... well, that's not true. You can wall off, but you won't have a cannon up. I think you can do it if you go something like 10pylon 10forge but that's not standard, and that is a hit to your econ if you aren't facing an early pool.

PS: Also on MLG Metal/Shattered/Xel'Naga, you have that depot down so it's even more risky.



1) on TDA LE, it is possible to wall off before lings get there

2) if point 1 is true, im right

3) if you think point 1 is not true, feel free to pm me your info and we can play a game sometime

4) im talking about with 14forge. again, yes its possible. if you want to see how, feel free to pm me

5) this is extremely easy to stop. if point1 is true, then that means 6pool pretty much should never do any damage to a toss who is doing a safe FFE with a 14forge. and because point1 is true, it means everything i have said in this post is true

6) FFE is bad on xelnaga / metal. but for other maps feel free to pm me if you want to see how 6pool is a instant loss to a toss doing a safe FFE




regardless, 99.999% of tosses on the ladder do not know how to do a safe FFE, which involes scouting at 9 and at 12 with a 14forge. so feel free to keep beating tosses on the ladder with 6pool until they learn how to do the safe FFE


You know what would be helpful is if somebody actually tested what maps you can or cannot wall-off in time and in what situations (i.e. possible if scouted first w/ pylon probe, but not with follow-up pylon + forge probes).
michaelhasanalias
Profile Joined May 2010
Korea (South)1231 Posts
October 03 2011 23:27 GMT
#39
On October 03 2011 22:49 -Dustin- wrote:
Wait I'm confused as hell about all these early pool subjects now. When Toss talk about 6Pool they say its OP on a FFE, but 7Pool is "easily held off" could someone explain the difference? I understand the Lings will be slightly delayed.

Seems solid may try it out on ladder as I like to do an early Pool vs Toss as it can give me an advantage/straight up win the game, but at a risk, if I fail to do any damage its pretty much game. I like the risk vs reward of a early pool. I see everyone saying its old, I understand that but I've never seen the exact BO for it as I don't look at Liquipedia much.

I also second what Jermstuddog is saying I love to send a scouting Drone just to block buildings harass the Toss and eventually do a little tanking for my Lings.



9 seconds is a long time in the first 3 minutes of the game.
KR NsPMichael.805 | AM Michael.2640 | SEA Michael.523 | 엔에스피 New Star Players
Jemesatui
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia94 Posts
October 03 2011 23:46 GMT
#40
i dont even bother trying to wall. to stressful. scout early pool, pylon behind mineral line, and cannon inside mineral line. chrono probes, go get an icecream, call your friends ask them how their weekend was, carry on with your 10 probe advantage.
yer you might lose the first forge and pylon, but who cares he's 10 drones behind....
Prev 1 2 3 4 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL: GosuLeague
19:15
Quarter Finals
Hejek vs Herbmon
Semih vs Kyrie
cavapoo vs TousaN
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft293
UpATreeSC 113
JuggernautJason66
CosmosSc2 61
EnDerr 29
RuFF_SC2 18
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 19249
Sea 1284
Artosis 731
Dota 2
ROOTCatZ15
LuMiX1
League of Legends
tarik_tv10706
Counter-Strike
taco 536
PGG 150
Super Smash Bros
ChuDatz10
Heroes of the Storm
Grubby3004
Khaldor100
Other Games
summit1g8771
shahzam1274
ViBE161
Maynarde96
Sick37
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream4585
Other Games
gamesdonequick698
BasetradeTV176
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH135
• davetesta35
• RyuSc2 32
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22108
League of Legends
• Shiphtur811
Other Games
• imaqtpie920
• Scarra914
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Monday
23m
PiGStarcraft293
GSL Code S
9h 53m
Rogue vs GuMiho
Maru vs Solar
Online Event
1d
Replay Cast
1d 2h
GSL Code S
1d 9h
herO vs Zoun
Classic vs Bunny
The PondCast
1d 10h
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
OSC
2 days
Korean StarCraft League
3 days
[ Show More ]
SOOP
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
Cheesadelphia
3 days
CSO Cup
3 days
GSL Code S
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Cure vs Percival
ByuN vs Spirit
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
2025 GSL S2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025

Upcoming

Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.