Catz's 7 pool on Shakuras Plateau (ZvP) - Page 2

On October 04 2011 01:05 Alpina wrote:
Just tried this build and at the exact time my 6 lings came his cannon warped in, so it appeared totally useless push. Even if I would made those 6 lings like few seconds sooner still I don't see this working vs. toss who does not go nexus first.

On October 04 2011 01:19 FairForever wrote:


That's why you 6pool, 6pool will get you there in time before cannon warps in (unless it's something like a 10 forge which is bad vs standard play)

On October 04 2011 01:37 Ben... wrote:
Yes, I 6pool. It hits just enough earlier that you can cause damage without cannons being up yet. My goal with this on both Shakuras and Tal'Darim Altar (It works on that map too, especially if they don't scout you first, though its window of effectiveness is smaller.) is never to kill them but to a) throw them off, and b) force them to build cannons in their main or a bunch of extra buildings. If they throw down a pylon and 2-3 cannons in their main, then the damage is done because I only built the 6 zerglings, and went straight into drone production. I've watched worker count on replays of these games and the Zerg usually ends up even with the Protoss, but they don't have 300-450 minerals of useless cannons sitting in their main or a bunch of extra buildings at their natural (If they panic and start building the great wall of Hongun. If that happens then you are in great shape).

On October 04 2011 02:03 Zelniq wrote:
On Shakuras Plateau, if the protoss player scouts on 9 after pylon, and places his buildings correctly, he should take zero damage from a 6 or 7 pool. What I mean by 0 damage is he should have to pull no extra probes, lose no buildings, lose no units. Just 9 pylon, 13 forge, 14 gate, 14 cannon, 14 gate. the Forge + 2 gates completely walls off the natural's ramp in time before any lings can reach it, and the cannon will finish at around the same time the lings arrive. The protoss can even cancel the 2nd gateway before it finishes and rebuild with a cybernetics core if he wants.

Protoss is then ahead in every way, only having to cut probes for a short time, and this is at 14 rather than 6 or 7 which obviously hurts the zerg's econ more than it hurt the protoss's.

The only reason it has a chance to be somewhat effective on shakuras is if they 1: Don't know how to properly place their first pylon to make a proper wall (probably most common among many ladder protosses), or don't scout after 9 pylon.

On October 04 2011 01:55 raaaiiiii wrote:
I was watching SlayerS_YugiOh stream last night and he was 7 pooling every Protoss he came across... He managed to get in the base every time, forcing a cannon in the main mineral line instead of at the ramp. He got his expo at 18, always before the Protoss.

On October 04 2011 02:03 Zelniq wrote:
On Shakuras Plateau, if the protoss player scouts on 9 after pylon, and places his buildings correctly, he should take zero damage from a 6 or 7 pool. What I mean by 0 damage is he should have to pull no extra probes, lose no buildings, lose no units. Just 9 pylon, 13 forge, 14 gate, 14 cannon, 14 gate. the Forge + 2 gates completely walls off the natural's ramp in time before any lings can reach it, and the cannon will finish at around the same time the lings arrive. The protoss can even cancel the 2nd gateway before it finishes and rebuild with a cybernetics core if he wants.

Protoss is then ahead in every way, only having to cut probes for a short time, and this is at 14 rather than 6 or 7 which obviously hurts the zerg's econ more than it hurt the protoss's.

The only reason it has a chance to be somewhat effective on shakuras is if they 1: Don't know how to properly place their first pylon to make a proper wall (probably most common among many ladder protosses), or don't scout after 9 pylon.

On October 04 2011 02:19 Sbrubbles wrote:




I love how these threads that discuss early pools always have credible sources saying opposite things.

On October 04 2011 02:19 Sbrubbles wrote:
I love how these threads that discuss early pools always have credible sources saying opposite things.

On October 04 2011 03:31 roymarthyup wrote:


nah, every time someone wins with a 6-7pool against FFE, the toss is just bad

many zergs here are saying they are winning with this build. that just means there are MANY bad tosses out there who dont know how to defend this.

even top korean grandmaster tosses are dying to this. it just means they dont know how to counter it

but this is very easy to counter. you can fully wall off before the lings arrive, and take no damage

but 99.99% of tosses on the ladder dont know how to counter this so freely use it until that fact changes

On October 04 2011 05:45 FairForever wrote:


What are you talking about? It's not easy to counter it at all if you don't scout it. On TDA LE it's impossible to wall off before lings get there... well, that's not true. You can wall off, but you won't have a cannon up. I think you can do it if you go something like 10pylon 10forge but that's not standard, and that is a hit to your econ if you aren't facing an early pool.

PS: Also on MLG Metal/Shattered/Xel'Naga, you have that depot down so it's even more risky.

On October 04 2011 05:57 roymarthyup wrote:



1) on TDA LE, it is possible to wall off before lings get there

2) if point 1 is true, im right

3) if you think point 1 is not true, feel free to pm me your info and we can play a game sometime

4) im talking about with 14forge. again, yes its possible. if you want to see how, feel free to pm me

5) this is extremely easy to stop. if point1 is true, then that means 6pool pretty much should never do any damage to a toss who is doing a safe FFE with a 14forge. and because point1 is true, it means everything i have said in this post is true

6) FFE is bad on xelnaga / metal. but for other maps feel free to pm me if you want to see how 6pool is a instant loss to a toss doing a safe FFE




regardless, 99.999% of tosses on the ladder do not know how to do a safe FFE, which involes scouting at 9 and at 12 with a 14forge. so feel free to keep beating tosses on the ladder with 6pool until they learn how to do the safe FFE

On October 03 2011 22:49 -Dustin- wrote:
Wait I'm confused as hell about all these early pool subjects now. When Toss talk about 6Pool they say its OP on a FFE, but 7Pool is "easily held off" could someone explain the difference? I understand the Lings will be slightly delayed.

Seems solid may try it out on ladder as I like to do an early Pool vs Toss as it can give me an advantage/straight up win the game, but at a risk, if I fail to do any damage its pretty much game. I like the risk vs reward of a early pool. I see everyone saying its old, I understand that but I've never seen the exact BO for it as I don't look at Liquipedia much.

I also second what Jermstuddog is saying I love to send a scouting Drone just to block buildings harass the Toss and eventually do a little tanking for my Lings.