EPTAPM vs RPM - Page 2
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whatthefat
United States918 Posts
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dUTtrOACh
Canada2339 Posts
Players who "focus" on raising their APM are simply focusing on a useless number. Once you're familiar with your openings and econ timings (eg:MULE), it frees up more brain time for controlling units, etc. Spamming APM and missing your timings, just to see a higher number, while still losing the game is working on something useless. Getting better at doing more things at once by optimizing your available real APM will gradually increase your overall avg. APM over more and more time. If you've gone from spamming @300 APM in the first minute of the game to spamming @500 APM in the first minute of the game, you've built up something completely stupid and absolutely useless. | ||
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Qntc.YuMe
United States792 Posts
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mothergoose729
United States666 Posts
Ultimately the only good benchmark for how good a player is, is how well that player plays. A high APM is usually a good indication of good mechanics, but that is it. Your RPM concept could just as easily be described when talking generally about a players "macro". EDIT: I used to think spamming was a bad thing, and not really productive for developing good play. As I have become a better player, and I have realized that spamming is a productive way to practice. You should always be pushing yourself to play beyond your comfort zone, more so in mechanics then anything. Forcing yourself to play to fast it the only good way to develop better mechanics. Ideally every action should be useful sure, but that takes time and practice. And at a certain level of play, having more then 100 apm really, really helps. | ||
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scph
Korea (South)262 Posts
Best example: top koreans all have high apm. It is possible to play with sub 100 apm and be good like whitera and sheth etc. But it doesnt change the fact that apm matters. Pay attention and you will see their apm jump beyond 200s when required, and they arent even microing yet, just controlling units and macroing. | ||
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alaug
Canada41 Posts
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E.H Eager
United States227 Posts
And to anyone who hasn't already, definitely watch the day9 daily mentioned in the post. It is one of the most helpful mechanics videos out there. | ||
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Shrubbles
Brazil29 Posts
In other words... it's STILL impossible to measure RPM. Just to clarify that it doesn't make it an unvalid concept. Like others, a definition doesn't need any proof, or measuring technic to exist.. | ||
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Hypnotic42
14 Posts
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michaelhasanalias
Korea (South)1231 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=250059 The crux of the thread was something like: - Since APM is a measure of the number of clicks one performs in a task, it doesn't maximize speed or time, and so it's not necessarily a valid measure. - APM is probably the necessary condition for rapid task completion, but having high APM doesn't necessarily mean anything. - If you want to improve your APM, you should instead focus on picking some aspect of your play and drilling it over and over in that specific situation so you can automate and complete that task faster in a real game. (for example, roach stutter step, moving workers to gas when taking a new expansion, taking xel naga towers with lings and unbinding them from your control groups) I feel like the linked OP accomplishes what you're trying to do only a bit more articulately and completely (no offense to you of course). Still, just as other posters have pointed out, the high APM itself is not the important part, but being active and able to process tasks more quickly and accurately is (which will naturally raise your APM anyway). | ||
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Beaza
Germany203 Posts
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quillian
United States318 Posts
On September 17 2011 06:42 michaelhasanalias wrote: There was a great thread on a topic with the same point as this one: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=250059 The crux of the thread was something like: - Since APM is a measure of the number of clicks one performs in a task, it doesn't maximize speed or time, and so it's not necessarily a valid measure. - APM is probably the necessary condition for rapid task completion, but having high APM doesn't necessarily mean anything. - If you want to improve your APM, you should instead focus on picking some aspect of your play and drilling it over and over in that specific situation so you can automate and complete that task faster in a real game. (for example, roach stutter step, moving workers to gas when taking a new expansion, taking xel naga towers with lings and unbinding them from your control groups) I feel like the linked OP accomplishes what you're trying to do only a bit more articulately and completely (no offense to you of course). Still, just as other posters have pointed out, the high APM itself is not the important part, but being active and able to process tasks more quickly and accurately is (which will naturally raise your APM anyway). Great link, though I think we are talking about slightly different things. His article is (I gather) a highly technical way of saying "practice one action at a time to make it faster, rather than trying to do everything faster at once." RPM doesn't focus on the specific actions one takes in microing a unit, etc, but rather on the rhythm of moving from one action to the next. Put another way, ACT is about actually doing the task faster, RPM is about stringing these tasks together more efficiently. I will definitely use some of his thoughts in working on my own play, though, thanks for the link. | ||
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Dag0N
Denmark25 Posts
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Xxazn4lyfe51xX
United States976 Posts
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Reithan
United States360 Posts
For one, yo'd have to analyze the replay first to find out what the player's cycle "order" is, as well as determining how many steps they have in their cycle, such as a terran with no OC won't have mules yet, a Zerg with no queens yet, etc. So, as the game goes on, your "steps per cycle" will increase as you get upgrade structures, macro mechanics, expansions, units to micro, etc. Then you'll need to actually gauge how quickly they are cycling through all these steps, including such things as certain steps not being included in EVERY cycle, perhaps there will be activities, such as upgrades that only go every 2-3 cycles, or something. You could possibly avoid this by simply grouping similar activities into one "grouped" step, but that weakens the rating overall, I think. Additionally, if a players missteps and accidentally misses a step, like missing an inject, or missing a production cycle - how would you add that to the calculation? Do you just skip that step, or lengthen that cycle until they do it again? This WOULD be a great rating to be able to use - but it's simply far to complex to be of any real use in practice. | ||
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Ruin
United States271 Posts
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CaptainPlatypus
United States852 Posts
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envisioN .
United States552 Posts
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Banchan
United States179 Posts
On September 17 2011 08:23 envisioN . wrote: I see holes in this idea because everyone's rotation is different depending on build, race, micro ability, etc. Saying that your rpm doesn't go up when your apm goes up is just dumb unless you are spamming to get apm up... If you have more apm, naturally you will get more ACTIONS done in a MINUTE so your rpm will go up. Not necessarily, if a terran goes allin with marine/scv his APM could go much higher while his RPM drops to 0 (if a rotation consists of micro and macro and the player only micros 1 control group of units there is no rotation involved). It is entirely possible to increase your APM without spamming or increasing RPM, just focus entirely on micro - there really is no limit to the amount of non-spam APM micro can soak up, it's just a matter of deciding when the relative benefit of sinking more APM into micro is no longer worth it. Many lower level players completely abandon macro while microing, thus creating a situation where their APM goes up while their RPM goes down | ||
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HTODethklok
United States221 Posts
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