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APM vs RPM

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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quillian
Profile Joined April 2010
United States318 Posts
September 16 2011 17:13 GMT
#1
Introduction

+ Show Spoiler +
A lot of players struggle with raising APM, and often try to mimic pro’s speed by spamming. This leads to a lot of poor mechanics and inconsistent results. Watching replays shows extreme variation in APM at all levels of play. Simple click speed is not the deciding factor.

I’d like to propose the introduction of a new term into the conversation about APM and play speed that I think more accurately reflects the difference between amateurs and pros:

RPM - Rotations per minute.


The Problem

+ Show Spoiler +
Even most gold+ players have started to develop a sense of rhythm, and a "rotation" they cycle through.

For example a simple terran rotation might be: mule > build scv > build units > build supply depots> add tech/upgrades. Micro with any extra time, and repeat.

The problem is, even as a players apm goes up, their rpm-- rotations per minute-- stays low. I often see replays of plat or gold players where they micro a fight for 30 seconds, then switch to macro 30 seconds, and repeat. This leads to missed production cycles, supply blocks, lack of micro and awareness at key moments in fights, etc.


Learning from the Pros

+ Show Spoiler +
What high level players have actually mastered is not necessarily clicking any faster, but cycling through their mental checklist very quickly. This is why you can see masters players with apm of only 70-80, but when you watch their games they move their screen quite rapidly, keep up with macro, micro fights effectively, etc. Their rotations per minute is high.

High rpm is accomplished through apm efficiency. Our silver terran player has 60 apm, but 1 rpm; he Micros for 30 sec and clicks 30 times, then macros for 30 sec and again uses 30 actions. His Apr ( actions per rotation) is 60: he is spamming, wasting time and actions, missing key timings.

A masters player with 60 apm and 10 rpm spends an average of just 6 seconds per cycle. In a typical cycle he might mule, check scv and unit production, build a supply depot, move a scout to a tower, and add some rallied units to a control group. Each step on the cycle takes just 1 action. He never sits waiting for a building or upgrade to finish, or spams 20 clicks for 1 move order. He uses each action efficiently, and moves on.

Accelerating your RPM - cycling through your mental checklist more frequently-- will increase your effective APM, awareness, and timing dramatically.



Techniques for Improvement

+ Show Spoiler +
The foundation for speeding up rpm is good “tapping.”
(see day9 daily #252 “secreats of hotkeys, apm, and mouse movement
http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-252-secrets-of-hotkeys-apm-and-mouse-movement-4730506 )

To work on your RPM, hotkey everything important--structures, upgrades, scouts-- and force yourself to watch the bottom of the screen while cycling through control groups.

Try to make yourself perform just 1 action per rotation for each control group, and move on to the next. As you become comfortable with the order of your rotation, begin accelerating the cycle rate.

Work on tapping through your rotation constantly, especially while in the middle of a fight! Learning to squeeze more rotations in between giving unit orders is the most important skill for increasing average RPM.



Conclusions and Feedback
+ Show Spoiler +

So, what does TL think of RPM as a tool for discussion and improvement of APM? Is this a more accurate picture of the difference between leagues?

Most importantly, what techniques do YOU use to work on speeding up your play?
PolSC2
Profile Joined December 2010
United States634 Posts
September 16 2011 17:16 GMT
#2
There is no clear way to judge someone's "rpm". Not going to work.
We learn nothing from history except that we learn nothing from history.
SFX
Profile Joined June 2011
United States89 Posts
September 16 2011 17:22 GMT
#3
I like the idea, but how can you talk about it without any way of measuring it objectively?
The innocent shall suffer, big time.
NmE_
Profile Joined December 2010
United States87 Posts
September 16 2011 17:23 GMT
#4
The hard part is going to be how you know what a cylce is. Each player has a different style of play and I just do not see any way of doing this in the game.

However, that said, I think that playing with the idea in your own head that it is rythem and cycles that matter, and not just 1a1a11a1a111a1a1a1a1a1a1a111.....

Good read all in all, too bad there is no way to measure this
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
September 16 2011 17:26 GMT
#5
Wouldn't RPM just be for macro and not include micro (these groups wouldn't be in your rotation). Thats how I read this post, I could be completely wrong.
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
Reaper101
Profile Joined July 2011
United States11 Posts
September 16 2011 17:30 GMT
#6
Check out this link from the latest ptr notes. Under the "bug fixes" section they say that "Repeated control group and selection commands will no longer count as unique actions for APM calculation purposes".

To me this sounds like spamming will no longer count as apm giving players a more realistic apm score.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/3393687/Patch_140_Now_Available_on_PTR-9_8_2011#blog
quillian
Profile Joined April 2010
United States318 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-16 17:43:56
September 16 2011 17:31 GMT
#7
The hard part is going to be how you know what a cylce is. Each player has a different style of play and I just do not see any way of doing this in the game.

However, that said, I think that playing with the idea in your own head that it is rythem and cycles that matter, and not just 1a1a11a1a111a1a1a1a1a1a1a111.....

Good read all in all, too bad there is no way to measure this


Thanks for the response.

It's true there's no built in measurement within the game, but I don't think this needs to be a measurable number to be a valuable concept. You can see in a replay pretty quickly what a player's mental cycle is,and how fast they are tapping through their control groups.

No, it won't be an e-peen number players can tack on their wall. But is it a concept we can use to show growing players how to improve?

Wouldn't RPM just be for macro and not include micro (these groups wouldn't be in your rotation). Thats how I read this post, I could be completely wrong.


The problem with pulling micro out of the equation is that you get players switching between macro and micro mode and not macroing during fights or scouting actively while macroing. The goal is to keep these integrated so important things don't get lost.

You see good players tap through army control groups and re-arrange them regularly even when there is no fight impending, just as part of their habitual cyce.

jinorazi
Profile Joined October 2004
Korea (South)4948 Posts
September 16 2011 17:37 GMT
#8
though there is no way to measure "rpm", it should be deep within anyone that wants to improve their game. its all about efficiency, doing what needs to be done within the shortest time available.

for example, some players will build 5 gateways, wait, then select all to add to group key.
but efficient way will be to build 5 gateways, do something else, then come back and group them all.
age: 84 | location: california | sex: 잘함
NmE_
Profile Joined December 2010
United States87 Posts
September 16 2011 17:43 GMT
#9
Yes, a human watching a replay can see what that cycle is, however, I still do not see how this would be something you can mesure with algorithms.

Also, a cycle for Zerg could be * Drone, inject, creep spread, scout, build ov* which is only 5 things, I would be able to cycle that many more times a min that I would be able to cycle *SCV, MULE, Build Units, depot, check build time on depot, scout* has 6 things in it and will take longer for that cycle to happen, its the same amount cycles... well scratch that... I guess if someone has a cycle of 10 things that they go through in 5 seconds, and someone has a cycle of 6 things they go through in 15 seconds, the better player is the one that can do.... fuck.. more actions per min.....
cywinr
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada173 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-16 17:44:34
September 16 2011 17:43 GMT
#10
I've known this problem but didn't really put much thought into it. This is a good tip and make players focus on increasing their rpm. I have a problem of having really high apm up to 5 minutes in the game and drops back down to 100ish the rest of the game... spiking during engagements.

I don't think it's important to have a really accurate/computerized way of recording rpm. Watching your own replays and having a clear goal of increasing your rpm is a very useful way of improving.
Micromancer
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada116 Posts
September 16 2011 17:46 GMT
#11
I am a mid-high level masters player and I have always prided myself in my low APM, granted just out of practice it has risen and now averages around 80 but when i first got into masters i had an average of around 60. I like the way you describe making a conscious effort to avoid spamming however i do not necessarily like the idea of having set rotations built into your mechanics. I think that it will allow for fast improvement up to high diamond maybe but after that because of your set rotations you will be preforming actions because they are the next action on your list, not because they are the most important action that needs to be dealt with immediately. I believe you should make a conscious effort to slow down, avoid spamming and just think, what is the most important thing right now? do it then ask yourself the same question again. It allows for adaptive thought and flexibility rather than set patterns. I think your way of thinking will allow for quicker growth at lower levels but you will hit a block as you get higher that will be hard to break, because you have set habits that give you good fundamentals but are not ideal.
Screaming for vengance
cmen15
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1519 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-16 17:51:36
September 16 2011 17:51 GMT
#12
I really like the idea's you mentioned, you really do see all Pro's rotating in the same cycle. It was a nice read like some others said. Cool Stuff!!! : )
Greed leads to just about all losses.
quillian
Profile Joined April 2010
United States318 Posts
September 16 2011 17:56 GMT
#13
Yes, a human watching a replay can see what that cycle is, however, I still do not see how this would be something you can mesure with algorithms.

Also, a cycle for Zerg could be * Drone, inject, creep spread, scout, build ov* which is only 5 things, I would be able to cycle that many more times a min that I would be able to cycle *SCV, MULE, Build Units, depot, check build time on depot, scout* has 6 things in it and will take longer for that cycle to happen, its the same amount cycles... well scratch that... I guess if someone has a cycle of 10 things that they go through in 5 seconds, and someone has a cycle of 6 things they go through in 15 seconds, the better player is the one that can do.... fuck.. more actions per min.....


Correct, comparisons between races and players aren't really relevant. It's not about the number, it's about looking at your own play and improving the rate at which you move through your mental checklist, whatever it is. The exact structure of the cycle will vary by style, but the *principle* of practicing it and increasing how quickly you move through it applies across the board.



I am a mid-high level masters player and I have always prided myself in my low APM, granted just out of practice it has risen and now averages around 80 but when i first got into masters i had an average of around 60. I like the way you describe making a conscious effort to avoid spamming however i do not necessarily like the idea of having set rotations built into your mechanics. I think that it will allow for fast improvement up to high diamond maybe but after that because of your set rotations you will be preforming actions because they are the next action on your list, not because they are the most important action that needs to be dealt with immediately. I believe you should make a conscious effort to slow down, avoid spamming and just think, what is the most important thing right now? do it then ask yourself the same question again. It allows for adaptive thought and flexibility rather than set patterns. I think your way of thinking will allow for quicker growth at lower levels but you will hit a block as you get higher that will be hard to break, because you have set habits that give you good fundamentals but are not ideal.


Thanks, I appreciate this feedback and high level perspective.
I agree that adaptive thinking is far more powerful as you progress. However, I think about this like learning an instrument.

When you first pick up a guitar, you can't just play improv jazz by thinking about which note comes next and how to play it. You have to first learn the structure and practice the basics until they become autonomic, muscle memory. Then, when you don't have to think about the basics anymore, your mind is free to think creatively and explore outside the box.

I think you are correct in saying this is an effective way to practice up to diamond, but that to really break through players will need to think flexibly and adapt to the game.
dehdar
Profile Joined January 2011
170 Posts
September 16 2011 18:42 GMT
#14
In my honest opinion APM is an irrelevant variable. I think it comes down to decision making and micro. Although my average APM is around 80-120 when I'm microing my combat units, my micro peaks at 350-400.

I'm mid master zerg and I often time find that relaxing, getting good map control, scouting and taking advantage of your "timing windows (expo/attack)" often time wins you the game despite how well you micro your units.

When I see players button smashing to keep 300 apm constantly where 250 is wasted... I wonder if they're trying to punish their keyboard/mouse.
NmE_
Profile Joined December 2010
United States87 Posts
September 16 2011 18:45 GMT
#15
So, the OP is more so saying that this should be a tool that each person uses on their own, rather than a stat inside of starcraft. I was under the impression that you were advocating to replace the APM with RPM in game.

As a training tool and used on your own while watching replays, yes. awesome.
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17921 Posts
September 16 2011 18:47 GMT
#16
This isnt World of Warcraft man, i dont think theres a set way to identify rotations per minute(im assuming this is what this means)

Theres alot of fluctuations that happen that could throw anything you do normally off.

Theres quite literally zero way to figure out "RPM"
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
Hypnotic42
Profile Joined August 2011
14 Posts
September 16 2011 19:00 GMT
#17
On September 17 2011 03:47 arb wrote:
Theres quite literally zero way to figure out "RPM"


He's not advocating some quantifiable number for players to focus on to determine RPM. Rather, he's saying that lots of players focus on useless actions to improve APM and think they are getting better and instead they should focus on a set cycle of actions such as building workers -> army rallies -> scouting -> creep spread/inject/mule/chrono -> etc and by perfecting and speeding up a rotation, you will in turn increase your effective APM.

Of course, there are going to be times when rotations may get messed up such as 200/200 micro battles/harass, but as you get used to the rotations you've setup you can more effectively keep them up with production/re-supplying/etc during all parts of the game.

For some reason most people need a quantifiable number to see how they compare with others (see APM x.x) whereas this technique doesn't provide that, but does, arguably, provide a much better avenue of improving.

Good read and good concepts.
The Final Boss
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1839 Posts
September 16 2011 19:14 GMT
#18
It's something players should learn to do (I guess?) but it really serves no purpose. People who brag about their 300 APM but are still curious as to why they're stuck in Gold League will continue to brag about their 300 APM. You can't set any sort of numerical value that is supposed to be representative of a person's skill because there's so many components that go into being a skilled player. What I think is interesting is when a player like (T)GoOdy or (P)White-Ra manages to play with such low APM compared to the higher APM that players like (T)meRz play with.
terranmoccasin
Profile Joined February 2011
United States74 Posts
September 16 2011 19:28 GMT
#19
The OP is right in stressing the importance of RPM. I think he is suggesting that "rotation" is just a guideline. It's a structured way to view the game in order to multitask well and stay productive in non-critical moments (Although you really still need to rotate back to econ/base management during battles in order to expand behind your pressure, etc).

It's true that making good decisions is more important than APM, but people who say APM doesn't matter are wrong! When you're faster, you just give yourself the opportunity to make more good decisions per minute. Off the top of my head: defending multi-prong attacks - You know exactly what you should do at both locations of aggression, but you're simply not fast to perform optimally.

I think APM/RPM is something you should worry about once you're at mid-master. Anything before that is knowing your own builds, recognizing your opponent's builds, and basic economy management such as when to cut probes, how many to transfer, etc. You can't rotate between 3 things when you don't even know how to play optimally while concentrating on 1 thing.
Jayrod
Profile Joined August 2010
1820 Posts
September 16 2011 19:31 GMT
#20
I measure my performance in wins and losses
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