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I spend my gas like this:
+1 melee
+1 armor
+lair
Take 2 extra gas, build a spire and infest
Quickly after, take 2 extra gas (depends on your third timing)
Build T3 asap.
Build 10-15 muta, 2-3 infestor.
Build ultra den then ultra.
You will see me get a baneling nest sometime in my replay. They can be good in emergency or in case terran goes for a full marine/medivac combo. (Again if they are smart, just go BFH)
I use burrow for scouting purpose, but never to unburrow your ling underneath an army. it's such a coinflip. One scan and you are pretty dead. I'd rather have my zergling active on the map than static under the ground. you can get a surround by coming from 2 different angles.
Btw BFH nerf won't affect zergling vs BFH fight. Only worker vs BFH.
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On September 01 2011 03:22 aXa wrote:
I spend my gas like this:
+1 melee
+1 armor
+lair
Take 2 extra gas, build a spire and infest
Quickly after, take 2 extra gas (depends on your third timing)
Build T3 asap.
Build 10-15 muta, 2-3 infestor.
Build ultra den then ultra.
Btw BFH nerf won't affect zergling vs BFH fight. Only worker vs BFH.
Oh, I see. So you stockpile gas for a little bit and don't start using any until you are on 3 geysers. Also, could you maybe talk about the other things I mentioned? I edited a lot of things in. Thanks!
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Edited my own post too 
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On September 01 2011 03:26 aXa wrote:Edited my own post too
About the burrow thing: Yeah, it is a pretty big coinflip, but if you don't burrow near creep you never really get scanned right? Although I suppose the terran might be cautious if he doesn't see your army at your natural. The only reason I make it a point to mention it is because it is a HUGE DPS increase if you are able to unburrow from under a squad of marines. Like really huge. You wouldn't believe it until you did it o.o.
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Just another question I am wondering.
about Muta, is it because you are unfamiliar with infestors or there is a reason?
I feel that infestors are the better units that work with tier 3, stops pushes well and is the tech structure for tier 3.
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I've watched 5 of your replays, and so far all I've seen is terrans expanding after some sort of hellion opening, and then switching to tanks.
What happens when he does a bomber-style walloff? Or he simcity correctly?
At the rate you take your third base, the terran can realistically turtle and just outproduce you and hit at ~10:30 timing for a pretty much guaranteed massive damage/win if he doesn't get caught unsieged (as you say yourself, a viable strategy can't rely on the failure of your opponent to scout properly).
All I see is terrible defense from the terran at a timing where he doesn't have enough units, and good simcity would've rendered your zerglings completely useless for 5 minutes.
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Hey Axa,
Love your guides. Quick question about this one: I have recently been having good early game success with opening 5-6 roaches to pressure/reveal tech from T and then transitioning more to standard play. Do you feel transitioning to mass zergling from this opening is still viable? It seems reasonable to me because roaches are larva efficient so although you dump 125 gas, you haven't spent many larva and the roaches can be left at home instead of getting crawlers.
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You cant delay mutas that much. 14 game minutes you'll have 5 drops at each corner of your base. You're playing agaisnt bad opponents.
The idea of getting a early macro hatch is good. But I think you're delaying your tech too much.
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On September 01 2011 04:28 DW-Unrec wrote:
You cant delay mutas that much. 14 game minutes you'll have 5 drops at each corner of your base. You're playing agaisnt bad opponents.
The idea of getting a early macro hatch is good. But I think you're delaying your tech too much.
Lol? It doesnt matter how many multi pronged drop terran will try to do, if you see him trying this, you just have to split your army into an equal number of bases you have. Muta are delayed but not that much anyway. The only "bad" thing here is your comment.
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On September 01 2011 04:28 DW-Unrec wrote:
You cant delay mutas that much. 14 game minutes you'll have 5 drops at each corner of your base. You're playing agaisnt bad opponents.
The idea of getting a early macro hatch is good. But I think you're delaying your tech too much.
Lololol. Bad GM/Master's opponents. :-)
aXa, do you have any specific tips for defeating the 9:30 Marine Tank push with pure +1/+1 Lings? Do you try splitting in 2-3 groups? Do you counter? I feel that the reason people push for early Mutas is for that specific push and drops (which can start around 9 min after 2 rax).
That has been my problem overall with pure Ling into late tech. I would appreciate any pointed advice on how you approach that problem.
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This strategy is designed to crush any early push, especially the 9:30 marine/tank one. Usually, if you starts producing full zergling with 3 queen 3 hatch after making 50 drones, you'll have more than enough to crush the push. Go catch him in the middle of the map and it will be easier.
Do you see the picture with the title "Nice to meet you" in the guide? It is pretty much what happened: 2 rax into timing around 10. And it just got crushed It's in the replay btw, one of the last (5 or 6) on Xel naga.
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On September 01 2011 04:44 aXa wrote:This strategy is designed to crush any early push, especially the 9:30 marine/tank one. Usually, if you starts producing full zergling with 3 queen 3 hatch after making 50 drones, you'll have more than enough to crush the push. Go catch him in the middle of the map and it will be easier. Do you see the picture with the title "Nice to meet you" in the guide? It is pretty much what happened: 2 rax into timing around 10. And it just got crushed It's in the replay btw, one of the last (5 or 6) on Xel naga.
I can see it handle early tank marine agreesion extremely well, however, the push usually comes with less marines and more bfh, which is extremely hard to handle without a really good surround :S, and terran can decide to go either tank heavy marine tank style or just go into mech to counter which path does the zerg choose to - roach into marine tank and mass ling into mech.
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I'm pretty sure about one thing: If a roach/ling compo off 50 drones and 3 injected hatch can't handle this push, nothing can.
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On September 01 2011 04:48 aXa wrote:
I'm pretty sure about one thing: If a roach/ling compo off 50 drones and 3 injected hatch can't handle this push, nothing can.
Deviation from the build, something i always miss to fathom and to do : P Right, add roach to the build xD
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On September 01 2011 04:48 aXa wrote:
I'm pretty sure about one thing: If a roach/ling compo off 50 drones and 3 injected hatch can't handle this push, nothing can.
Turtle + drops/harass can destroy your strategy. This works on diamond/masters or below, not vs pro gamers.
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On September 01 2011 04:52 DW-Unrec wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 04:48 aXa wrote:
I'm pretty sure about one thing: If a roach/ling compo off 50 drones and 3 injected hatch can't handle this push, nothing can. Turtle + drops/harass can destroy your strategy. This works on diamond/masters or below, not vs pro gamers.
Drop harass can destroy any strategy, watch MMA play. This does work vs progamers, watch MotM with DDE. Unless youself claim as one of the best player in the foreign scene, i don't find your input especially helpful or even completely true, every strategy has a weakness and there will never be a perfect build that will handle everything perfectly, it is really based on personal preference and map structure.
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On September 01 2011 04:52 DW-Unrec wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 04:48 aXa wrote:
I'm pretty sure about one thing: If a roach/ling compo off 50 drones and 3 injected hatch can't handle this push, nothing can. Turtle + drops/harass can destroy your strategy. This works on diamond/masters or below, not vs pro gamers.
I agree about one thing: Turtle. But turtle will not destroy MY strategy, it will destroy every zerg on the planet. Simcity + turtle + minimap awareness= nightmare for zerg.
Now arguing that drops will destroy this is ridiculous. Do you realize thaht having 20 ling at each base completely deny this strat? And you get muta on your third base, so no way of being too spread out.
About "pro gamers" i will argue you that even baneling bust off 1 base works at this level, despite being a strategy known for ages. Your arguments are irrelevant.
And anyway, there is a lot of things that can "destroy" my strategy, like every strategy btw. If you had noticed, it's mostly a meta game guide. Now you can stop being stubborn and unpleasant.
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aXa, would you mind adding a little more of a supplementary bit and/or replays about dealing with BFH openings/timing pushes? I think a little deeper insight into that might help any lower tier Z's about how you prepare and handle it.
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EPT
