On October 02 2011 08:06 Skygrinder wrote: Hey guys, i am trying out this build again since everything else i do vs terrans is failing miserably. Can anyone here point out what i am doing wrong in this replay (We are both mid-high masters).
I know i misclicked the ranged attack instead of the melee one in this game but was that my downfall?
I hate to say this, but I think the problem is just smoothing out the build in the early game. I noticed a couple of little bumps that led to your drone count and ling count being lower than it should have been.
18/18 overlord - this felt late. It might not be a problem because of how tight money is, but it delayed a few drones and delayed your queen at the natural. at 26/28 you built two overlords, setting your supply max to 28/44 when minerals are very tight (and then you couldn't use the supply space anyway because you didn't have the money) Built the macro hatch a bit too early, you had 5 larva in the main and couldn't use them because you spent the money on the hatch. basically all of those contribute to you having fewer drones than you should, which means you still needed to continue droning when it was ling making time. these are boring things, but I guess working on these little details is the nature of trying a new build.
I think the biggest problem was the macro hatch just a bit too early. I think getting it before about 6:30 will probably cut too many drones. I like to get the 3rd queen out first so she can do some creeping or deal with hellions.
play around with it and see when you hit 300 minerals with all larva spent.
+1 melee attack would definitely help also, I recommend flanking. he was able to get his back up against a wall, and additionally you tried to run past him to surround before attacking. watching the replay carefully, you lost 15 lings while you were running past his army before you started attacking. If you're coming from two sides you don't need to worry about that and your lings perform much better. I always keep my lings in two control groups for this. Alternately, engage immediately with half and run past with the other half. When you have a huge surplus of lings you don't need to worry about that detail, but when you're at even supply and even upgrades against stimmed bio, every edge counts.
I think you were close to holding that, but your drone count was always lagging, and polishing the early game will help that for sure.
On September 23 2011 21:10 Big J wrote: hey, what I (master zerg) like to do when I go for very zergling heavy styles is: -) start the game with roaches... Really scare them from going hellions (15hatch 14pool --> first 150gas in 6roaches and attack, then zergling speed and drones) -) keep on adding in some roaches as your defensive core army, because as the guide says, you kind of throw away zerglings in counter attacks and to trade some units off... guess which unit does brutally well in low to medium supply battles
yeah i've been trying this as well but I never had the ball not to get zergling speed. But I think you are right. 6 roaches is a LOT better early game than zerglings. I should try it.
Most Terrans open with some hellion harass and get map control. I feel like at this point you should just drone and have like 1 spine crawler to defend. with some zerglings. They then transition into some marine/tank play. If they continue with hellions, you get some roaches to supplement your lings. Make sure you get nice surrounds when you engage their army.
On October 03 2011 01:18 aXa wrote: YOu meant 20:30 ? ^^
lol military time
Anyways, thanks to all the viewers who came by for the livestream. More apologies for all the stream troubles, from black screens to massive lag. I will upload the VODs shortly, so be on the look out!
This mass only 3/3 ling style is ridiculously good, if not the strongest ZvT style I would say. I think every good Zerg i've played lately has done this into ultras, because by making 500000 zerglings you get free map control for the entire game, you cannot be dropped/harrassed if your multi-task is good enough you just send lings to each drop and clean it up.
Then you basically mass whatever unit you want along with 100 zerglings. Be it infestor, or ultra, or all muta...you basically can just pick a unit out of a hat and pair it with mass 3/3 lings and it works crazy good because you can take expansions much more easily with this style.
So tough to deal with @_@ i think the counter is mech, but if you open up any variation of bio...you're sorta screwed lol.
This is an amazing guide, just spent about an hour reading this and watching the IPL, this makes me understand why alot of players aren't getting banelings as early (if at all) anymore in zvt. Thanks for taking the time to write all this! ^^
Just watched it all, you did a great job ! As your biggest fan, i will suggest you to work your minimap awareness. Anyway, i hope you'll recover soon Gz !
Terrific thread. I have been playing a style like this versus terran for a while--mass lings, rush to T3 and ultras. I play it partly because it works and partly because I hate the zerg midgame versus terran. My win % versus Terran is near 70% these days.
I have two minor thoughts about what you've advised.
First, while it's true Ultras are more mobile than broodlords, broodlords have their own advantages and benefit from the same upgrades. Broodlings screw with the AI targeting of the marine ball and help cover you with a map that has chokes. It's a plus if they provoke lots of vikings (much like it's a plus for protoss if z makes too many corruptors). So I often mix in few in the initial 200/200 army. But I tend not to reinforce with them.
Second, I would (and do) mix some banelings into the equation. Terran has an easy micro response to the baneling ball. However, a mix of cracklings, banelings and ultras puts Terran in a micro pickle. If he runs the marines back, it's free reign on the tanks. If he doesn't he loses the marines quickly anyway to the combo of ultra and baneling splash. Plus banes and ultras have the same speed on creep so there's an additional synergy there.
Wow, thanks for the random guy who linked to this thread. I'm also a disgruntled Zerg who dislikes just sitting in his base waiting to get killed.
One thing bugs me though.. don't sensor towers basically hard counter the entire "lings holding the middle map" principle? Or are they just a possible nuisance and nothing to get excited about.
On October 14 2011 22:04 aXa wrote: Seing the zergling is not dealing with them.
I understand that. But I'm still uncomfortable with the idea that T knows about my little patch of lings long away from home. Then again, I guess my mobility keeps me safe.
Definitely gonna try this, though. I was never a fan of gas-intensive delayed production unit as counter to a mineral dump unit, dump vs dump sounds much more attractive...
EPT
