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[G] aXa's ZvT: Let's start the agression - Page 9

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Rube_Juice
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada348 Posts
September 11 2011 23:23 GMT
#161
Honestly, dude..

Great fuckin' guide.
OSM.OneManArmy
Profile Joined April 2011
United States509 Posts
September 12 2011 02:38 GMT
#162
Seems interesting.. unfortunately i just can't see this build ever beating pure mech if you never get infestors or broodlords..
I feel as if a terran can adapt to this relatively easily o.O
Admin of High School Starleague // hsstarleague.com // https://www.facebook.com/HSStarleague // UCI Dota2 President https://www.facebook.com/groups/ucidota/
MageWarden
Profile Joined April 2011
United States95 Posts
September 12 2011 02:49 GMT
#163
Good Guide. Its good for players with good game sense knowing when to counter or flank. Gives good map control and abuses the fastest unit in the game. Btw mixing in banes late game is prtty fucking good if u go ultra/speedbane because of their speed synergy. Food for thought.

BUMP

GG WP NO RE
evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12796 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-12 08:18:00
September 12 2011 08:16 GMT
#164
I would like to raise a point on the very important 5th hatch's injection.

When you are on 3 bases, and with good saturation, 4 hatcheries (3 on bases, 1 macro) is not enough to spend all the resources. I watched all your games and you float about 1.5k minerals at those stages.

It is also the MOST CRUCIAL time of the game, that's when terran normally moves out with a huge ball, an extra round of production at 20 seconds earlier time is going to win/lose you the game because you will either break his ball or not.

For instance, this game:

From 10:45 onward, your 3rd is fully online, you kept up with injection, and from the production tab you are constantly making units. However your mineral still goes above 1500 plenty times.

You had a 5th hatchery at an expansion, it is probably good idea to put a queen there and use it to inject. It seems when you expand to a 3rd, you will NEED another hatchery, 3 base, 5 hatch (bw hydra zvp standard) seems to work here, except with queens.

Maybe when expanding to a 3rd we should also throw down ANOTHER macro hatch. I feel with this build it is so important to keep the minerals low as long as possible while getting upgrades. 1500 mineral is 60 zerglings, which is going to make a huge difference (2 extra arms in a flank) but I need not tell you this.

So I'm going to try this, same build, but when I take my 3rd I will also make a macro hatch and maybe take a 4th soon after and keep up the larvae injection. My one SIMPLE goal is to never float minerals and slam out as much ling/roach(depend on context) as possible while getting the techs up. Reach 200 in an ungodly speed and start trading army intelligently.

Other than that there are small details I have to understand. At the 6:00 mark we build 2 queens, evos, and a macro hatch as part of our core infrastructure. This is pretty risky as it leaves you weak to a timing attack around 7th minute mark. My friend raised a good point about the macro hatch. Most of the times zerg don't make it, and that is going to be easier for them to fend off such timing attack without that investment.

Anyways, gonna watch this thread from now, nice guide, suits my playstyle immensely.
Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
RiT4LiN
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands131 Posts
September 12 2011 09:50 GMT
#165
Great great guide i'll try this out as soon as i get home.
A quote
aXa
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
France748 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-12 10:30:57
September 12 2011 10:22 GMT
#166
On September 12 2011 11:38 OSM.OneManArmy wrote:
Seems interesting.. unfortunately i just can't see this build ever beating pure mech if you never get infestors or broodlords..
I feel as if a terran can adapt to this relatively easily o.O


Against pure mech i go pure roach.

I would like to raise a point on the very important 5th hatch's injection.

When you are on 3 bases, and with good saturation, 4 hatcheries (3 on bases, 1 macro) is not enough to spend all the resources. I watched all your games and you float about 1.5k minerals at those stages.

It is also the MOST CRUCIAL time of the game, that's when terran normally moves out with a huge ball, an extra round of production at 20 seconds earlier time is going to win/lose you the game because you will either break his ball or not.

For instance, this game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpfaJ9i3Zy8&feature=player_embedded#!
From 10:45 onward, your 3rd is fully online, you kept up with injection, and from the production tab you are constantly making units. However your mineral still goes above 1500 plenty times.

You had a 5th hatchery at an expansion, it is probably good idea to put a queen there and use it to inject. It seems when you expand to a 3rd, you will NEED another hatchery, 3 base, 5 hatch (bw hydra zvp standard) seems to work here, except with queens.

Maybe when expanding to a 3rd we should also throw down ANOTHER macro hatch. I feel with this build it is so important to keep the minerals low as long as possible while getting upgrades. 1500 mineral is 60 zerglings, which is going to make a huge difference (2 extra arms in a flank) but I need not tell you this.

So I'm going to try this, same build, but when I take my 3rd I will also make a macro hatch and maybe take a 4th soon after and keep up the larvae injection. My one SIMPLE goal is to never float minerals and slam out as much ling/roach(depend on context) as possible while getting the techs up. Reach 200 in an ungodly speed and start trading army intelligently.

Other than that there are small details I have to understand. At the 6:00 mark we build 2 queens, evos, and a macro hatch as part of our core infrastructure. This is pretty risky as it leaves you weak to a timing attack around 7th minute mark. My friend raised a good point about the macro hatch. Most of the times zerg don't make it, and that is going to be easier for them to fend off such timing attack without that investment.

Anyways, gonna watch this thread from now, nice guide, suits my playstyle immensely.


I do always float minerals at this stage it is true, but it is not a slip up in my macro. When i feel safe, i like to pool minerals and larvae. If i see nothing coming, i spend my ressources on tech to get ultra asap. Usually i start pooling minerals to have a lot saved when my ultra cavern is done as well. Otherwise, i try to macro/drone up if i'm sure there will be no push. I don't need to have all my zergling available on the field because they are quick to produce. Unlike other unit, as long as you have a solid core of zergling, you don't need to constantly produce them and pool an huge army size. It can be done at the last moment.

Btw guys, i'm now including zergling drop in my play. It is SO good !
Ragnar1
Profile Joined January 2011
Australia88 Posts
September 12 2011 10:56 GMT
#167
On September 12 2011 19:22 aXa wrote:
Btw guys, i'm now including zergling drop in my play. It is SO good !


Seen Sheth experimenting with this as well, it seems the psychological effects on the Terran are fairly profound even if you don't do a lot of damage.

Have you tried a similar style in ZvP? I noticed Stephano do this on stream a few times (4 or 5 hatches pumping lings, while teching up to a suitable unit).
KangaRuthless
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States304 Posts
September 13 2011 13:06 GMT
#168
RagequitTMO (from cast 1) wants to do a bo5 with aXa. Since I have an EU account as well, I can either livecast these or just cast and upload to YouTube later. Both players have agreed to do the bo5, we're just trying to figure out a time and day that works for all of us.
www.youtube.com/KangaRuthless
cupapoo
Profile Joined December 2010
17 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-13 15:17:34
September 13 2011 15:13 GMT
#169
2 questions!

1. What triggers you to make the tech switch to roach? I know you say "if he's going pure mech, i go roach", however, to me, sometimes its not clear until its too late.

2. Even when I get roach, I'm kinda getting owned. How do you approach attacking a mech army that slowly moves across the map while dealing with those crazy fast hellions runnin around?

Forgot to mention - Great guide! Against those pesky marine tank pushes, i have creep halfway to his base and surround for the easy kill.
macaronij
Profile Joined December 2010
Argentina67 Posts
September 13 2011 16:32 GMT
#170
On September 13 2011 22:06 KangaRuthless wrote:
RagequitTMO (from cast 1) wants to do a bo5 with aXa. Since I have an EU account as well, I can either livecast these or just cast and upload to YouTube later. Both players have agreed to do the bo5, we're just trying to figure out a time and day that works for all of us.

it will be increible if you can live stream it!! but a youtube video is also good!!! keep the good work!!! aXa fighting!!
aXa
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
France748 Posts
September 13 2011 17:28 GMT
#171
On September 14 2011 00:13 cupapoo wrote:
2 questions!

1. What triggers you to make the tech switch to roach? I know you say "if he's going pure mech, i go roach", however, to me, sometimes its not clear until its too late.

2. Even when I get roach, I'm kinda getting owned. How do you approach attacking a mech army that slowly moves across the map while dealing with those crazy fast hellions runnin around?

Forgot to mention - Great guide! Against those pesky marine tank pushes, i have creep halfway to his base and surround for the easy kill.


1: By scouting ofc

2: Burrowing your roach army (not on creep, near his base) and unburrow when he walks on you is the best way. Against slow push, i try to use zergling on tank when BFH are not arround. Roaches are good to break slow push imo.
Kaminoan
Profile Joined August 2010
Chile25 Posts
September 13 2011 20:43 GMT
#172
Awesome guide aXa, thx a lot. I really like your 9 pools against toss and zerg. Gonna be trying this out on the weekend. A question though, with this build, what do you find you struggle against?
Macro, macro, macro macro, micro, macro, macro, macro, macro, micro, macro...
aXa
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
France748 Posts
September 13 2011 20:49 GMT
#173
Turtling terran. Whatever the style your using it's the hardest anyway.
KangaRuthless
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States304 Posts
September 13 2011 20:53 GMT
#174
On September 14 2011 01:32 macaronij wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2011 22:06 KangaRuthless wrote:
RagequitTMO (from cast 1) wants to do a bo5 with aXa. Since I have an EU account as well, I can either livecast these or just cast and upload to YouTube later. Both players have agreed to do the bo5, we're just trying to figure out a time and day that works for all of us.

it will be increible if you can live stream it!! but a youtube video is also good!!! keep the good work!!! aXa fighting!!

Actually, livestream would be best, but I'm not sure if I can run XSplit, FRAPS, and SC2 at the same time without destroying my computer
www.youtube.com/KangaRuthless
aXa
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
France748 Posts
September 13 2011 21:38 GMT
#175
Livestream is great, but we still could made a VOD of it, right ?
KangaRuthless
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States304 Posts
September 13 2011 22:05 GMT
#176
On September 14 2011 06:38 aXa wrote:
Livestream is great, but we still could made a VOD of it, right ?


Of course. Should be no problem, and I will run some tests today to make sure everything works.
www.youtube.com/KangaRuthless
aXa
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
France748 Posts
September 13 2011 22:10 GMT
#177
I'm moving to paris tomorrow so no rush i very well may not available at all for the next 3 days ^^
lcl
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom119 Posts
September 14 2011 10:41 GMT
#178
this is an excellent guide. Infact as a terran play myself there are only two things I fear - scouting a macro hatch and then being caught out of position. All too often I walk up to zergs base, siege up spread my marines and then wait for him to run into the best defence in the game. Then I get a 20 minute QQ about terran imba.

With the gas saved too you can get melee upgrades which make a good transition into ultra
The more I practise the more luck I seem to have
shock.111
Profile Joined September 2011
Bulgaria1 Post
September 19 2011 20:07 GMT
#179
Great guide man. Ive been using this style every game versus terran and get banelings only for mine purposes ( it works magic in gold league). I usually get hive straight after the infestor pit and get 10 infestors + the 200 lings and brood/ultra. Broods i found are better vs mech because its slow as well and ultras are better at breaking siege lines and keeping your army mobile.
macaronij
Profile Joined December 2010
Argentina67 Posts
September 20 2011 04:07 GMT
#180
On September 14 2011 07:05 KangaRuthless wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2011 06:38 aXa wrote:
Livestream is great, but we still could made a VOD of it, right ?


Of course. Should be no problem, and I will run some tests today to make sure everything works.


any news from that game?
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