EPTI just wanted to make this clear to people complaining about the game level in the replays.
[G] aXa's ZvT: Let's start the agression - Page 8
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3DGlaDOS
Germany607 Posts
I just wanted to make this clear to people complaining about the game level in the replays. | ||
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Da Dopeman
United States4 Posts
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_bang
5 Posts
In my most recent game, the guy went marine-tank mass-ghost, with his marine-tank getting rolled en route but the 15 or so ghosts going uncontested through my bases. I definitely needed banelings that game but that's my terrible gamesense failing to act. | ||
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
On September 09 2011 06:46 _bang wrote: I've been doing this my last few matches against Terran and I'm amazed at how strong and underrated 3-3 ultra-ling is. I even managed to break a mech contain once with proper ling spread. Also, I think this has been said before, but Terrans who play very turtle and wait for one big push do pretty well against this. In my most recent game, the guy went marine-tank mass-ghost, with his marine-tank getting rolled en route but the 15 or so ghosts going uncontested through my bases. I definitely needed banelings that game but that's my terrible gamesense failing to act. You must play aggressive, don't let them come to you. Multi-pronged attacks with a drop in their main to draw most units away from the front and shortly after a frontal assault did the job for me quite often. Of course it depends on the map and the available area for an attack, but if you sit back and wait for a 200/200 push you will die. Drops are still far too underused for Zerg considering that you have a ton of overlords anyways and Speedlings are so effective at destroying bases and mineral lines:-/ | ||
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DW-Unrec
492 Posts
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tsarnicky
104 Posts
Also I'm slightly dissapointed in your justification for ultras over blord, its surprisingly lacking compared to your in depth analysis of zerglings. otherwise great post! | ||
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Pies
33 Posts
most the time the zerg is scared of banshee or BFH or mass marine. so tank pushes catch em.... but zergling heavy zergs always screw me | ||
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Chorizo
United States8 Posts
My question is, what do you do when the Terran survives to the late game...and gets out about 12 ghosts? I have to make mass ling/overseer/broodlord? I don't understand life at the point when terran starts using ghosts. | ||
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aXa
France748 Posts
On September 09 2011 09:31 tsarnicky wrote: logic seems solid, but this whole build revolves around anticipating T attacks, what if they just don't attack? and instead play defensively? Also I'm slightly dissapointed in your justification for ultras over blord, its surprisingly lacking compared to your in depth analysis of zerglings. otherwise great post! ----> On September 08 2011 18:20 aXa wrote: Despite a stupid AI pattern, ultra are quite good. They are not huge damage dealer but they sure tank a lot. They are far better than broodlord with this style for several reasons: -First you have already the upgrades (3-3), so they are more efficient -Second, they are fast enough to not be totally outrun by zergling, allowing your army to be coherent -Third, they fit very well with zergling: Zergling allow ultra to hit even marines by surrounding them. Ultra absorb initial marine and tank shot, which is the time where zergling is cost ineffective because they are not in range yet. -Fourth, zergling and ultra tank an impressive amount of damage: Zergling because they take a lot of over-kill, ultra by they high armor and HP. The two combined allow you to overrun a terran army in a decisive fashion. -At last, utlra force marauder or ghost which are terrible against zergling. Anyway, broodlord are too slow and easily counter by ghost/viking. Here is a replay against a dropping player (all game long), with a BFH/marine elevator push in the early game. [url blocked] If that's not enough for you i can't help it. aXa...mid/low masters player here. Big fan of your guides even though I'm terrible at ZvZ. My question is, what do you do when the Terran survives to the late game...and gets out about 12 ghosts? I have to make mass ling/overseer/broodlord? I don't understand life at the point when terran starts using ghosts. I think zergling are the best answer against ghosts. Maybe some roaches. But definitely never go brood/ultra against them. Can I have a replay where you do this build and your opponents do not a+move into your lings? I want someone that siege up the tanks too. Are you asking me to make mistakes ? A terran army in the middle of the map really have little time to siege up when an horde of ling come running at them. And there is no point for them to siege pre-emptively in the middle of the map. The whole point here is to catch them unsieged. But again, maybe you forgot to read the guide. | ||
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aXa
France748 Posts
[url blocked] Against 10th terran master, shattered temple close pos. | ||
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JoeAWESOME
Sweden1080 Posts
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Veriol
Czech Republic502 Posts
1) fungal greatly reduces madivac abilty to overheal ling damage therefore killing rine/medivac/BFH(wich i think is hardest coutner to this) is WAY easier 2) Lings themselves with good ovie spread and creep spread cn pretty much clean any drops therefore no real NEED of mutas 3) Getting faster hive (we can say hive-rush since ull be getting it at 3base) results in basically nonstop upgrade production heading towards broods/ultras Infestors with burrow/drops can do pretty decent harras compared to mutas. Because i feel like 9/10 terrans just blindly prepare for mutas and this can catch them by surprise. Also stuff like 1 infestor harrasin siege line with single IT. Only negative i see is that ling/muta is more mobile then ling/infestor but on other hand its better than other infestor orianted comps such as infestor/roach (nerchio). EDIT: Ive just watched the latest replay u provided and i see you didnt use Mutas  ^_^ | ||
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aXa
France748 Posts
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Warsfear
15 Posts
I would try to incorporate nydus so you have more mobility, and try to freeze the rines in locations with festors while u snipe off tanks. that should gg it. | ||
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babysimba
10466 Posts
Send out an early drone scout to scout for for terran's gas. Against 2 rax (cheese or economic), it's very easy to hold off bunker rushes with no gas. You gain map control not from speedlings but from the sheer quantity of slow lings out in the map. Having an active pack of lings give you an opportunity to flank, instead of being forced to attack from only 1 direction as you try to build your forces at the last minute. If you can flank well you don't need to rely on speed for engagements. Against 2 raxes, Its totally fine to pump out over 10 lings, since you are mining more minerals instead of gas and you are not larva limited if you use injects immediately. Against hellions expand, you cant get map control anyway, so might as well just skip gas and use the additional minerals to sim-city better and drone up. If gas is scouted, just pump out 1-2 sets of lings. Send a ling to their ramp to see they are indeed going factory and not techlab on rax. Drone up to 28 food. Get 1-2 spines, drone back up to 28, overlord, pump down a macro hatch and evo chamber if needed. Your sim-city that consists of spines, hatch, evo will be completed before hellions can reach your base. 3rd queen will only spread just 1 or 2 tumors around the base and help inject the macro hatch. The idea of this build is get your production rate ramp up much quicker, get back map control with the amount of lings you have instead of waiting for mutas. Because you cant get scouting info once you are contained by hellions, make sure you send a hidden ling or overlord scouting their natural. Their expansion timings will tell you whether they are going for 1 base all-in or banshees. I always try to aim for a final composition of muta ling infestors. Hive tech is mainly for 3-3 crackling upgrades. Whether you go for mutas first or infestors depend on the situation. I have not really figured that out well, but if terran goes straight for marine tank instead of drops, it's preferable to go for infestors. You will have the raw strength to break a siege line if terran decides to turtle behind a fast 3rd. Remember to use neural parasite on tanks. | ||
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Censor
United States122 Posts
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Zergalicious
United States29 Posts
The T player didn't know what hit him.  | ||
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BeeNu
615 Posts
Occasionally you will get Terran players who will scout that you don't have a Baneling Nest [or just go blindly which is obnoxious] and just do a super heavy mass Marine style, or sometimes mass Marine/Medivac timing attack and without Banelings there isn't really a good way to deal with this. Also, I'm not absolutely certain but would you be able to hold off a Marine/SCV all-in with this strat without any Banelings either? I agree that Banelings are something I'd prefer to skip but sometimes depending on their tech route I have no choice but to use them or if I suspect something funny at the very least having a Bane Nest up as a precaution. | ||
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aXa
France748 Posts
About drop, i think i posted a replay about that. I need to find it and i will edit the post. Edit: [url blocked] | ||
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J4CkTwist
Germany7 Posts
(now) mid Diamond Zerg here. Just wanna thank you for this amazing guide, helped my ZvT tremendous! The "Oh you move out for a rine tank push" "I move into your Nat with 30 lings, kthx" never gets old. ^^ Its just hilarious how much Terrans think you won't have an army till they knock at your door. And the delayed muta catches a lot of them off guard also. Keep up the great work. | ||
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