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flcHoOt
United States15 Posts
Edit: Meant to say I am going to start doing this. Hope it goes well. :D Edit #2: Thanks so much for the help. Also to the ragers who have posted after me. Stop QQ'ing man up, and learn how to play the game like your suppose to. All the what if's you state can be solved by scouting. | ||
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aXa
France748 Posts
On September 08 2011 22:54 00Visor wrote: I really like the Idea of mass upgraded lings, and neglect banes in early game. I tested your build and I think there is a big hole after your investments at 28/28. The blind investment of 2 spines, 2 evos, 5 set of lings and then macro hatch, extractor, 2 additional queens, leaves you with only 16-18 drones at ~6:00. You then put 6 drones in gas, so only 10-12 on minerals. You could catch up in drones very quickly because of larvae, but I feel you really lack minerals at this point. I think that 2 spines, 4 queens and 7 sets of lings are too much of blind defense. Especially 2 spines, if you have 2 than 4 queens vs hellions and want to fight in open space anyways. Another idea is to not take drones of gas, get only one evo, and upgrade attack, then armor. You get your first ugrade faster, the second a bit later, and you safe 2 drones early for additional evo and exctractor. Maybe i didn't make myself very clear about this point of the build. -This is not a "blind" reaction. I only go for 2 spine 2 evo if i scout reactor-hellion. -You don't get the 2 queen and 2 gas that early. Watch the replay you'll see i get them a tad late, with maybe 24-30 drone around 6:30. So it's not a huge investment. | ||
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DW-Unrec
492 Posts
If terran do all-harass builds, you have no banelings to bust the bunkers. If the terran go hellions and medivacs, you'll have no mutalisks. If terran doesnt do anything (like newbies macro macro macro then do one big push), then your build is good. You can play without gas (fish cutter), but not without minerals. EDIT Okay, sorry, i wont discuss your build anymore. You won like 5 games where terran a + moves to your base, with creep, without sieging up. | ||
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aXa
France748 Posts
Not at high level? I'm freaking 14h in my master division with 800 point. That's enough to try Code A preliminaries. http://eu.battle.net/sc2/fr/profile/604491/1/aXa/ What you said was flat out wrong and don't even want to explain you why. | ||
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TolEranceNA
Canada434 Posts
On September 09 2011 04:28 DW-Unrec wrote: Your build is not viable in high level, you trade early minerals (that could've been lings or drones) for a macro hatch. You trade early minerals (by putting drones on gas non-stop) for gas. You trade early economy (drones) for 2 blind spines and 2 evo chambers. You trade tech for upgrades. There is NO way you can play vs terran without mutas. If terran do all-harass builds, you have no banelings to bust the bunkers. If the terran go hellions and medivacs, you'll have no mutalisks. If terran doesnt do anything (like newbies macro macro macro then do one big push), then your build is good. Are you serious? Please try to be more reasonable next time, this build is viable for sure in high level starcraft, if you want evidence, please check out pheonix's stream and such. Early minerals? You can take a third or make more lings or make more drones, it is totally up to your preference i believe, last time i checked you don't follow someone's build/mindset COMPLETELY. All harass - Bunker wtf? Nice mid game bunker harass. Upon scouting Marine Hellion Medivac elevator drop, lings and queens are some of the best answers zerg can have, muta comes way too late into play. No you don't need muta for ever single game, if you think you are better than destiny(not the best example but he is better than most people for sure), Nestea ( who played a non-muta game against Ensnare) and many many other zerg innovaators, please, enlighten me. Or else, provide more evidence and logic explanation behind your points. | ||
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aXa
France748 Posts
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DW-Unrec
492 Posts
Why im wrong? You sacrifice early minerals to make what, lings? As you said on OP, "50 lings at 10 minutes is not the same as 50 lings at 15." @EDIT lings and queens, if he does BFH you lose you map control till you have your 14 minute mutas. And what are you gonna do if terran turtles? Expand? Nah, i forgot you make macro hatches and mass lings instead of expansions. | ||
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TolEranceNA
Canada434 Posts
On September 09 2011 04:39 DW-Unrec wrote: TL has to stop using "You did not posted an argument" as an excuse. I DO posted my argument. If you cant see it, read the whole post. Why im wrong? You sacrifice early minerals to make what, lings? As you said on OP, "50 lings at 10 minutes is not the same as 50 lings at 15." This is not a troll post. Can i add you on SC? I'd like to talk to you, but i hate PMs. You did, but clearly, i don't see any logical reasonings behind it, and i am willing to take advice of aXa and be done with people like you. For god sake, he didn't say:" HERP THA DERP< ONLY MAKE LINGSSSSSSSSSSZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ" But clearly you are not smart of an individual to adapt to your opponents. | ||
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DW-Unrec
492 Posts
On September 09 2011 04:38 aXa wrote: Don't bother yourself. He believes that i get 2 early gas which is exactly what i do NOT do. He said he watched replays but he must be blind or something. You make 1 gas, and mine it non-stop. Plus you build 2 evos and 2 spines. This means less minerals and less lings. You won 5 games where the terran a moves into 80 lings. This is code A? | ||
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TolEranceNA
Canada434 Posts
On September 09 2011 04:42 DW-Unrec wrote: You make 1 gas, and mine it non-stop. Plus you build 2 evos and 2 spines. This means less minerals. Oh yeah, you should not get Ling speed, because you get less minerals. You should not expand, because oyu lose more minerals, you should not get upgrade and make evo chamber because you get less minerals. | ||
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TolEranceNA
Canada434 Posts
On September 09 2011 04:42 DW-Unrec wrote: You won 5 games where the terran a moves into 80 lings. This is code A? I've seen more stupid thing done in Code S | ||
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DW-Unrec
492 Posts
I see, you say lings are the core of your army, but they cant do miracles, they cant with harass. Watch sheth vs select on shattered temple. | ||
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aXa
France748 Posts
If you want see me making drone, here is a fine replay with 80 drone and 3 base before the 16 min mark. [url blocked] No, you can't add me on SC or even PM me. For god sake, +1 +1 is a long term advantage. It is more than worth it. | ||
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TolEranceNA
Canada434 Posts
On September 09 2011 04:48 DW-Unrec wrote: speed is less minerals. But its worth it. Macro hatch is less minerals, but its worth. Early +1/+1 is less minerals, but is not worth it. Why? Because you are commiting to lings and banelings. And I dont see adaptation, since you blindly make 2 spines. Always. Lol read his guide, he said make 2 reactionary spines upon scouting hellion openings. And heavy upgraded Ling style has been confirmed as an effective style of play by many many pros and non likes. | ||
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DW-Unrec
492 Posts
You said you in OP you like to makes lings, be safe, then drone. " +1 +1 is a long term advantage. " Indeed, thats good in macro games. Watch sheth vs select on shattered temple. All I see while I watch this is "if sheth had less minerals, he would'nt be able to afford any drones and lings. Why? Beucase select is harassing non-stop. -- Ah, my strongest argument this build is weak is because you play vs newbies. Who a moves with unsieged tanks on creep on code A? | ||
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TolEranceNA
Canada434 Posts
On September 09 2011 04:56 DW-Unrec wrote: "I don't produce ling until i have 50 drone." You said you in OP you like to makes lings, be safe, then drone. " +1 +1 is a long term advantage. " Indeed, thats good in macro games. Watch sheth vs select on shattered temple. All I see while I watch this is "if sheth had less minerals, he would'nt be able to afford any drones and lings. Why? Beucase select is harassing non-stop. -- Ah, my strongest argument this build is weak is because you play vs newbies. Who a moves with unsieged tanks on creep on code A? Because every Terran on the planet expect zerg to sit in their bases? If you catch any terran of guard, i don't care if you are MVP or MKP, you will die. And pure ling composition is designed to catch terrans off guard, however, i am realizing i am making a huge idiot out of myself by talking to you, however, it is worth it if i can get you off this thread through reasonings. You must be Season 1337 Rank 1st Grandmaster. | ||
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Fik-cz
Czech Republic43 Posts
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Treemonkeys
United States2082 Posts
I am so sick of trying to dodge siege tanks with banelings I think I will try out this style, though I will probably use my own build orders than the one's posted. Also I think it would be cool to use this style and then add baneling mines in mid/late game before ever showing banelings to hopefully catch them off guard. <3 aXa, don't stop doing what you do! | ||
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3DGlaDOS
Germany607 Posts
In my opinion you can't play this all the time on pro level, any smart player in a best of X series will just start playing more defensive and more macro heavy when he sees this several times. But you surely could play this style in some games as a pro. | ||
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aXa
France748 Posts
On September 09 2011 05:10 wBsKillian wrote: It's certainly viable in ladder (btw big thanks to aXa, i also use your ZvZ guide). In my opinion you can't play this all the time on pro level, any smart player in a best of X series will just start playing more defensive and more macro heavy when he sees this several times. That's a given ofc. I do not design pro-build strategies. My guide are supposed to improve your laddering with solid build, using new faces of zerg capacities. For example, my 9 pool is really an amazing ladder build, but you can't expect to do it every time in a BoX. If a pro player was exclusively using this build, other pro will figure it out and destroy it. | ||
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