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On September 12 2011 19:16 Claudia_Kitty wrote:
I dont understand why they buffed observer 100 to 75 gas , now overseer 100 to 50 gas why doesnt they buff raven the mobile detection from terran cost 200 gas yeah i know it has abilities that by the way are horrible in timmings, you can give the EB upgrades and the starports upgrades to the raven and even then when raven spawns cant use seeker misile, also is verry slow and big so it can be targeted verry easily... plz plz dont tell me that you can just scan that messes up the economy of the terran i dont need to explain that , the slower race making workers mathematics etc.... i would like a raven with no abilities but cheaper and faster i hope this make sense to smart and analitic people .... have a good day
to put it blontly >> cos terran is op...
you dont want to buff the op race XD..
I dont think the community wants terran to win more than 56% of their games XD.
56% is very high...i believe its higher than BISU's win rate..thats how high it is vs the rest.
http://i.imgur.com/bdP2e.png
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An Overseer's only real offensive ability is Contaminate, which now needs 125 energy.
Changelings are nice but nothing too special to warrant so much gas.
A Raven has multiple offensive abilities, each of which are powerful in their own right.
Don't forget an Overseer also has the 100 minerals cost from the Overlord incorporated into it, as well as losing supply if it dies.
@cbueno: Terran is fine, leave it alone.
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On September 12 2011 19:16 Claudia_Kitty wrote:
I dont understand why they buffed observer 100 to 75 gas , now overseer 100 to 50 gas why doesnt they buff raven the mobile detection from terran cost 200 gas yeah i know it has abilities that by the way are horrible in timmings, you can give the EB upgrades and the starports upgrades to the raven and even then when raven spawns cant use seeker misile, also is verry slow and big so it can be targeted verry easily... plz plz dont tell me that you can just scan that messes up the economy of the terran i dont need to explain that , the slower race making workers mathematics etc.... i would like a raven with no abilities but cheaper and faster i hope this make sense to smart and analitic people .... have a good day
what are you talking about scan messes up the economy of the terran? All you gotta do is sacrifice a MULE to get a wide radius instant detection on demand. Terrans "sacrifice" only minerals to scan. I say "sacrifice" because the minerals are still actually there if you dont use a MULE, they just come in slower. Protoss and Zerg sacrifice minerals, gas, and production time to get their detection, they also "mess up their economy" by getting their detection. Scan can be evaded if youre lucky enough to get the unit out of the radius in time, but then again scan is an unkillable detector unlike observers and overseers.
whatever you believe about scan vs other detectors, you have to admit that the fact that Terran has scan and that the raven has far more utility than observers and overseers do makes the comparison of ravens to observers/overseers a much more complicated discussion than what youre making it out to be.
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Personally, if I was balancing it, I would have made NP not work on air units instead. That lets void rays be an infestor counter and makes the mothership usable.
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they should make ravens as OP as infestors currently is wich is somethign like.
With full energy be able to place 10auto turretz with 3times the range they have now.
With full energy be able to place 3x heartseaking bombs.
PS. will enjoy infestors nerf next patch and will start to use BC at 10minutes for shitts and giggles
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On September 12 2011 18:11 Belial88 wrote:Show nested quote +This is exactly why NP is being nerfed, where are the stalwarts of the Protoss? Or the dreaded Battlecruiser armadas?
The FEAR of being NP is what keeps late game comps in the T2 bracket. Metagame wise this affects the game's popularity. Why? Because the layman sees nothing new after 20 min with the same units in ZvX they'll stop watching ZvX because it's boring the same set of units dying over and over.
Ingame wise, it is stupid to think that that they NOT develop techniques or technology to protect their massive investments from being mind controlled. No it isn't, wtf? Infestors are horrible in ZvT, the reason you don't see BC's is the same reason you didn't see them before the infestor buff, the same reason you didn't see them in BW ZvT - Zerg anti-capital is too strong, and siege tanks are PvZ metagame.
Since you're so dense let me spell it out for you.
Sky Terran style:
Viking/banshee/raven/BC/ghosts (late game 4vs5 base)
With just ling/infestors which would have been out 12min into the game, chain-FG the ball to death, NP the BCs and Vikings, let lings clean up the ghosts. Some infestors get sniped/EMP'd and some lings die to banshees & ghosts but are quickly remade. Raven launches some auto-turrets.
Mech: Thor/hellion/ghost/marauder
See above. Replace Thors for BCs, no lings lost as on hold command. Move in to clean ball up after FGs clear hellions
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On September 12 2011 16:01 liub wrote:
I don't think the barracks +5 build time can be justified
generally, my orbital command is made straight after my rax with a few seconds of not building an scv
this additional 5 second void will have me awkwardly waiting for my barracks to finish when in the meantime no scv's are being made (approximately 7 seconds just sittin there)
furthermore 5 seconds is a potential 5 energy from the orbital - gone.
This has probably already been mentioned, just wanted to flame a bit.
Speaking of flames, i think the bfh nerf is absolutely fine
Looks like someone never played Zerg/Protoss  Super early bio rushes are too efficient, whiele there is NOTHING other races can do without hurting their economy by ALOT, simply because how larva works and how protoss need's to wait for cyber core and more money to make units that are twice as much expensive as terran units. Those 5 seconds are more important then you think, for other races.
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The Neutral Parasite Change is not good because it will destroy ZvP and ZvT Midgame.
Zerg would die against any Colossus or Thor Push
Hope it doesnt make it through the PTR
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looking for master+ random players for an unbiased opinion!
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As a zerg player im not that worried about the NP nerf. I think blizzard is adjusting its role of the infestor rather than nerfing it. The infested terran is underused IMO, and the NP will still work vs the immortal which WILL see more use with its range upgrade.
the immortal will still be closer than the collosus and will be easier to land a NP on. With the infestor being at a safer distance the Protoss player will need to micro a bit more to snipe the infestor possibly creating opportunities for roaches to get snipes in as well.
Over all i think it will slightly increase the amount of micro used in ZvP and encourage the use of infested terrans which are very awesome IMO.
i think its good that the mothership is safe from NP.
not being able to NP a thor wont be a big deal since infested terrans will help to destroy thors outright. with mech being so slow to replace its going to be ok to blow large amounts of energy on infested terrans.
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Infestors may have been too good but the problem is most other units Z has in mid-late game are not good enough. By removing the most common use of NP while nerfing FG damage slightly, I can't help but think Z is going to be in trouble late game again. The FG nerf was completely warranted, but coupling it with a NP nerf might just be too much.
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I can see the NP change being a bit too much for Zergs to handle. Chargelot-archon will be simply devastating now, if a 3-basing Protoss gets 7-8 archons I don't see what Zerg can do against that. Also ghostmech, which was already very powerful, may be able to skip ghosts entirely and we all know that fewer types of units = stronger pushes. Pure hellion/tank/thor, with a reactor starport on standby in case you spot a greater spire. Again, I don't see what zergs can do against that (Ultras are still terrible).
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On September 13 2011 00:10 Carnagath wrote:
I can see the NP change being a bit too much for Zergs to handle. Chargelot-archon will be simply devastating now, if a 3-basing Protoss gets 7-8 archons I don't see what Zerg can do against that. Also ghostmech, which was already very powerful, may be able to skip ghosts entirely and we all know that fewer types of units = stronger pushes. Pure hellion/tank/thor, with a reactor starport on standby in case you spot a greater spire. Again, I don't see what zergs can do against that (Ultras are still terrible).
Mass roach beats any Protoss composition that does not include both sentries and colossus. You can easily beat even stalker/immortal/colossus with nothing but roach as long as you make sure to fight on creep and open the fight by charging forward so all your roaches are in range or attacking from two directions. Stalkers just melt in seconds if they don't have FF to split your army in half, much faster than their colossi can kill your roaches.
The only exception to this might be stalker/immortal but that's easy to beat by just morphing a round of lings to tank the crappy-vs-unarmored damage when you see it move out.
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It seems infestors have gone from completely and utterly broken OP to, well, kinda okay. ZvT no NP on Thors is huge. Like really huge. You can now lead your tank push with a thor and not worry about it turning around and shooting you.
Fungal is still good, just not broken. Its the snare not the damage which makes it good. And the damage is still respectable.
As a T i approve. And Ghost mech just became mech.
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On September 12 2011 21:03 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2011 18:11 Belial88 wrote:This is exactly why NP is being nerfed, where are the stalwarts of the Protoss? Or the dreaded Battlecruiser armadas?
The FEAR of being NP is what keeps late game comps in the T2 bracket. Metagame wise this affects the game's popularity. Why? Because the layman sees nothing new after 20 min with the same units in ZvX they'll stop watching ZvX because it's boring the same set of units dying over and over.
Ingame wise, it is stupid to think that that they NOT develop techniques or technology to protect their massive investments from being mind controlled. No it isn't, wtf? Infestors are horrible in ZvT, the reason you don't see BC's is the same reason you didn't see them before the infestor buff, the same reason you didn't see them in BW ZvT - Zerg anti-capital is too strong, and siege tanks are PvZ metagame. Since you're so dense let me spell it out for you. Sky Terran style: Viking/banshee/raven/BC/ghosts (late game 4vs5 base) With just ling/infestors which would have been out 12min into the game, chain-FG the ball to death, NP the BCs and Vikings, let lings clean up the ghosts. Some infestors get sniped/EMP'd and some lings die to banshees & ghosts but are quickly remade. Raven launches some auto-turrets. Mech: Thor/hellion/ghost/marauder See above. Replace Thors for BCs, no lings lost as on hold command. Move in to clean ball up after FGs clear hellions
Um, you can't actually beat Mech with Infestor Ling, it has to be Infestor/Roach or Infestor/Roach/Broodlord if the game is going on for a while.
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On September 13 2011 01:21 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2011 21:03 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On September 12 2011 18:11 Belial88 wrote:This is exactly why NP is being nerfed, where are the stalwarts of the Protoss? Or the dreaded Battlecruiser armadas?
The FEAR of being NP is what keeps late game comps in the T2 bracket. Metagame wise this affects the game's popularity. Why? Because the layman sees nothing new after 20 min with the same units in ZvX they'll stop watching ZvX because it's boring the same set of units dying over and over.
Ingame wise, it is stupid to think that that they NOT develop techniques or technology to protect their massive investments from being mind controlled. No it isn't, wtf? Infestors are horrible in ZvT, the reason you don't see BC's is the same reason you didn't see them before the infestor buff, the same reason you didn't see them in BW ZvT - Zerg anti-capital is too strong, and siege tanks are PvZ metagame. Since you're so dense let me spell it out for you. Sky Terran style: Viking/banshee/raven/BC/ghosts (late game 4vs5 base) With just ling/infestors which would have been out 12min into the game, chain-FG the ball to death, NP the BCs and Vikings, let lings clean up the ghosts. Some infestors get sniped/EMP'd and some lings die to banshees & ghosts but are quickly remade. Raven launches some auto-turrets. Mech: Thor/hellion/ghost/marauder See above. Replace Thors for BCs, no lings lost as on hold command. Move in to clean ball up after FGs clear hellions Um, you can't actually beat Mech with Infestor Ling, it has to be Infestor/Roach or Infestor/Roach/Broodlord if the game is going on for a while.
Hes right. You need roaches. Always.
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I find it sad that the ones giving "dealwithit tips" are Terran players.
What's with all the Q.Q having to make any other comp that does not include mass (>6) Infestors?
IMO I'm getting tired of hearing day[9] say, "And he's putting down the infestation pit and researching the critical upgrade, pathogen glands, so that infestors can utilize that ultra powerful FG right out of the hatch"
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On September 12 2011 21:25 Ada wrote:
looking for master+ random players for an unbiased opinion!
I feel like I'm pretty unbiased, I play most races a fair bit but mostly lean towards Zerg since they're my first love.
Having said that, I do feel like Infestors have been a bit too strong and I've been pro-nerf for quite some time but only with the condition that Hydralisks and Corruptors get some love so Infestors don't have to fill their shoes so much as Anti-Air and Damage Dealers.
The fact that Blizzard wants to nerf Infestors without buffing anything else substantial pisses me off quite a bit. The Ultra buff will *maybe* help a bit dealing with Protoss deathballs, but does absolutely nothing to help with Mech, I don't see how Zerg is going to be able to deal with Mech without NP.
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On September 12 2011 21:03 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2011 18:11 Belial88 wrote:This is exactly why NP is being nerfed, where are the stalwarts of the Protoss? Or the dreaded Battlecruiser armadas?
The FEAR of being NP is what keeps late game comps in the T2 bracket. Metagame wise this affects the game's popularity. Why? Because the layman sees nothing new after 20 min with the same units in ZvX they'll stop watching ZvX because it's boring the same set of units dying over and over.
Ingame wise, it is stupid to think that that they NOT develop techniques or technology to protect their massive investments from being mind controlled. No it isn't, wtf? Infestors are horrible in ZvT, the reason you don't see BC's is the same reason you didn't see them before the infestor buff, the same reason you didn't see them in BW ZvT - Zerg anti-capital is too strong, and siege tanks are PvZ metagame. Since you're so dense let me spell it out for you. Sky Terran style: Viking/banshee/raven/BC/ghosts (late game 4vs5 base) With just ling/infestors which would have been out 12min into the game, chain-FG the ball to death, NP the BCs and Vikings, let lings clean up the ghosts. Some infestors get sniped/EMP'd and some lings die to banshees & ghosts but are quickly remade. Raven launches some auto-turrets. Mech: Thor/hellion/ghost/marauder See above. Replace Thors for BCs, no lings lost as on hold command. Move in to clean ball up after FGs clear hellions
If you have a problem with Sky terran as Zerg, you must really hate Carrier, Mothership, Archon, Templar, Colussus ball.
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On September 13 2011 01:32 Eppa! wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2011 21:03 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On September 12 2011 18:11 Belial88 wrote:This is exactly why NP is being nerfed, where are the stalwarts of the Protoss? Or the dreaded Battlecruiser armadas?
The FEAR of being NP is what keeps late game comps in the T2 bracket. Metagame wise this affects the game's popularity. Why? Because the layman sees nothing new after 20 min with the same units in ZvX they'll stop watching ZvX because it's boring the same set of units dying over and over.
Ingame wise, it is stupid to think that that they NOT develop techniques or technology to protect their massive investments from being mind controlled. No it isn't, wtf? Infestors are horrible in ZvT, the reason you don't see BC's is the same reason you didn't see them before the infestor buff, the same reason you didn't see them in BW ZvT - Zerg anti-capital is too strong, and siege tanks are PvZ metagame. Since you're so dense let me spell it out for you. Sky Terran style: Viking/banshee/raven/BC/ghosts (late game 4vs5 base) With just ling/infestors which would have been out 12min into the game, chain-FG the ball to death, NP the BCs and Vikings, let lings clean up the ghosts. Some infestors get sniped/EMP'd and some lings die to banshees & ghosts but are quickly remade. Raven launches some auto-turrets. Mech: Thor/hellion/ghost/marauder See above. Replace Thors for BCs, no lings lost as on hold command. Move in to clean ball up after FGs clear hellions If you have a problem with Sky terran as Zerg, you must really hate Carrier, Mothership, Archon, Templar, Colussus ball.
Dude you forgot Voids. I guess thats only on 5+ bases
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EPT
