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Hi all, I'm EnVBonkerz and I'm a mid master Terran Player on the NA Server. I've been leeching off these forums for around a year now and I felt that it's about my time to give back. Currently, I feel that my TvZ is extremely strong, so, I'll share with everyone what I've been doing!
General Thought Process
+ Show Spoiler +Mech vs Zerg can be extremely strong, if it fits to your style. With this style you can't be trading armies with the zerg constantly, because 90% of the time it will be more cost efficient for the zerg and the zerg can reinforce faster than you can rebuild factory units. So slow pushing and taking expo's is how to win with this style, along with relentless Blueflame hellion harrass.
General Build Order (Supply isn't consistent, so just take into account which order to build things in.)
+ Show Spoiler +10 Depot (constant depot + scv)
12 Rax (Constant production till 5 marines)
13 Gas
15 Oc
16 depot (Finish Wall)
(supply Discontinued)
Factory (After Depot is finished)
Hellion Asap
Command Center (inbase)
5 Marine Hellion Poke at Zerg Nat (kill ovies and queens, and possibly drones)
Reactor On Rax (build Marines)
Tech lab on Factory
2nd Gas
2nd Factory
Build Chuck From Factory (Read Description Below)
Opening BO Over.
The 5 Marine Hellion Push (What should I be looking for?)
+ Show Spoiler +The marine hellion push is used to kill shit and to get INTEL
You want to look to see if the zerg is getting gas, or if his speed is late, how many queens he has, how many spines he has. (High Spine/Queen usually= spanishiwa stlye build)
Who is Chuck?????
+ Show Spoiler +Chuck is a roach killer. He is my OSHITROACHES tank, and he wins games. Currently a lot of masters zergs are doing this like 5-7 roach pressure into expo semiallin, and chuck prevents them from actually being able to win right then and there, and you are usually ahead in that situation because you already have your expansion up. CLARIFICATION He is a siege tank.
Losing at 10 Minutes
+ Show Spoiler +Don't get caught with your pants down about muta, its like instaloss unless you got enough marines. I rage when this happens.
Midgame and Scouting / Counters
+ Show Spoiler +After you have chuck out, you can start blueflame and start pumping hellions. Get a techlab on your 2nd factory OR Put your 2nd Factory on the reactor and start pumping hellions. This all depends on what you scout. Usually I have 3 factories(2 tech 1 reactor) and 1 starport on 1 base. (My 4th factory is usually in production when 3rd going up) MAKE SURE YOU SCAN TO SEE WHAT LAIR TECH HE IS DOINGI see X what do I do?Spanishiwa Style+ Show Spoiler +Okay so use your hellions to scout for a really fast third from him, if you see the fast third, get a third up of your own, and do a push with tanks hellions and marines, you can win right there. He might have slow lings depending on timing, be careful tho, if he sacc'd drones and is semiallin, if you lose your whole army you are in deep shit. SCOUT Usually Roach leads into infestor but occasionally they will go muta (with no thors or turrets your boned) Be weary of burrow (RAVEN), Make sure you have a sufficient amount of tanks (thors are good to use as damage takers.) These are the things that make us mech terrans shiver in our boots, make sure you throw down a ghost acadamy asap, and have atleast 2 barrack with tech labs pumping ghost (if 3+ base get around 4-6 rax for ghost) When Pushing go slow, getting fungaled not in siege is insta loss. Get some hellions, Infestors are usually on the way if you see no banelings, make sure to check ling upgrades, make sure you are working on your mech upgrades, Upgraded tanks/hellions wreck zerglings. Be happy, you are hardcountering this, just get a perfect amount of thor hellion tank, Make sure you have enough thors to kill his muta, get upgrades quick for thors. Additionally make sure that your hellions dont get hit by banes.
Going super heavy muta really doesnt leave much gas leftover for anything but lings, So sit on your ass until you get a good amount of thors and hellions and push out and kill his third. Make sure you have enough turrets to defend production and mineral lines. GET THESE UPGRADES+ Show Spoiler +Getting Building armor + hi sec autotracking really helps against heavy muta Ummm not sure if there is much else here :-) Hydras+ Show Spoiler +
Lategame/ Hivetech
+ Show Spoiler +Lategame+ Show Spoiler +You want to have half the map, essentially you should be feeling really comfterable, make sure you build extra OC's for mules and scans, and Have lots of production, Just keep Slowpushing, Make sure you have a decent ghost count 10+ (and 3+ starports with reactors) Additionally you need like 3 or 4 Sensor towers SPLIT THE MAP, The zerg will try doing all sorts of things, drops, and nydus's make sure he can't. LEave 1 tank in your main to protect production. If you lose shit in your main its annoying as fuck When you see hivetech suspect Greater Spire (BL's) that is the usual response Ghosts Vikings and Upgraded Thor/Hellion will rape this, Just make sure you have the GHOST COUNT
If you see ultra, thors and tanks + ghost snipes will be sufficient no need for vikings.
Replays:
+ Show Spoiler +
Little things that are fun to do / extra info:
+ Show Spoiler +Viking+ Show Spoiler +I usually go 2 factory > Starport > 3rd factory, with the first thing comming out of the starport get a viking to scout and kill OL's around the Map. Getting Cloaked banshees out does really well against infestor builds, just make them waste fungals and energy trying to kill them (Make sure your shit is split up) Lategame you have 10+ ghosts tossing down like 1 or 2 more acadamies and getting nukes are fun, and can do pretty good damage on hatches and Send them everywhere if there is no drones there USE THEM TO KILL LARVAE
killing all of the zergs larvae can win games. Upgraded mech rapes shit.
In my opinion how the zerg counters this build lategame (It ain't easy)
+ Show Spoiler +Zergs beat this by not engaging, they will try nydus's and drops. Additionally after a major battle make sure you have enough like turrets to defent against a 200/200 muta switch which is quite common. Stay safe from all of the gimmiky shit zerg will do, Nydus and Drops leave 1 tank in main and use sensor towers and turrets to defend your production and mining bases.
My Request / Disclaimer
+ Show Spoiler +This is my first write up, and I am by no means a PRO player or even relatively close to being one, please if you comment compliments or constructive criticism please, be a lover not a hater :-) I took a lot of time to write this up, please respect my wishes. Btw If i lose I usually BM sorry.
Credits
+ Show Spoiler +
Thanks all, and please check out my stream here on TL STREAM
Bonkerz
P.S. If I forgot something here let me know, additionally I'll upload more replays when i get them, currently those two are all I have. Again, my play isn't at pro level, so if you wanna see that, look for the Catz vs. Thorizan game on shakuras, Thorizan does it extremely well.
EDIT: Clarified Lategame and How Zerg Counters this.
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Take this down immediately!!!! Terran doesn't mech doesn't need any help! and, i swear, it sucks.
really, for the sake of zergs everywhere. Good basic guide, i really don't want anyone learning from this :D
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I play this style quite a lot on the ladder (mid-master as well), and as zerg, I feel like it pretty much hinges on the blue flame hellion harrass.
If you can't do enough damage with the blue flame hellion I will scout base with my first 8 mutas and then instantly switch to infestors, picking up NP as well. I'll look for turrets being put up and if I feel like there aren't enough I'll just flood mass muta and magic box them over your thors for the win. If you do get the turrets in time/in the right position/amount, I'll just use the mutas for map control against your hellions while getting the infestors. The timing works out to around when you move out so I'll have like 5-6 infestors with mass lings and around 8-12 mutas against the mech army.
I'll also be taking bases 4 and 5 here as well.
Basically before the engagement I will wait for the "hellion poke" to land a fungal, and from there its pretty much over since you will have no answer for my lings. During the engagement I'll NP your thors as well and magic box my mutas over them.
I think typically around this timing your army composition is something like 15 hellions, 6-8 thors, 0-2 tanks, depending on whether or not you get tanks or thors.
Anyways I have no problem holding and from there I'll just have brood lords and win.
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On August 15 2011 09:50 fuzzytoad wrote:
I play this style quite a lot on the ladder (mid-master as well), and as zerg, I feel like it pretty much hinges on the blue flame hellion harrass.
If you can't do enough damage with the blue flame hellion I will scout base with my first 8 mutas and then instantly switch to infestors, picking up NP as well. I'll look for turrets being put up and if I feel like there aren't enough I'll just flood mass muta and magic box them over your thors for the win. If you do get the turrets in time/in the right position/amount, I'll just use the mutas for map control against your hellions while getting the infestors. The timing works out to around when you move out so I'll have like 5-6 infestors with mass lings and around 8-12 mutas against the mech army.
I'll also be taking bases 4 and 5 here as well.
Basically before the engagement I will wait for the "hellion poke" to land a fungal, and from there its pretty much over since you will have no answer for my lings. During the engagement I'll NP your thors as well and magic box my mutas over them.
I think typically around this timing your army composition is something like 15 hellions, 6-8 thors, 0-2 tanks, depending on whether or not you get tanks or thors.
Anyways I have no problem holding and from there I'll just have brood lords and win.
Only 2 tanks lategame? Lol?
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On August 15 2011 09:54 Bonkerz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2011 09:50 fuzzytoad wrote:
I play this style quite a lot on the ladder (mid-master as well), and as zerg, I feel like it pretty much hinges on the blue flame hellion harrass.
If you can't do enough damage with the blue flame hellion I will scout base with my first 8 mutas and then instantly switch to infestors, picking up NP as well. I'll look for turrets being put up and if I feel like there aren't enough I'll just flood mass muta and magic box them over your thors for the win. If you do get the turrets in time/in the right position/amount, I'll just use the mutas for map control against your hellions while getting the infestors. The timing works out to around when you move out so I'll have like 5-6 infestors with mass lings and around 8-12 mutas against the mech army.
I'll also be taking bases 4 and 5 here as well.
Basically before the engagement I will wait for the "hellion poke" to land a fungal, and from there its pretty much over since you will have no answer for my lings. During the engagement I'll NP your thors as well and magic box my mutas over them.
I think typically around this timing your army composition is something like 15 hellions, 6-8 thors, 0-2 tanks, depending on whether or not you get tanks or thors.
Anyways I have no problem holding and from there I'll just have brood lords and win.
Only 2 tanks lategame? Lol?
Well, if you cut tank production for reactor hellions and double Thor production... Yeah... Sounds about right... But it's not really lategame... It's like midgame/end of midgame timing. Late game is when Zerg has Broodlord+Infestors and Terran should have 3-4 bases and near max army (after several engagements, so this relies on how well Terran retains his army).
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On August 15 2011 10:00 RyLai wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2011 09:54 Bonkerz wrote:On August 15 2011 09:50 fuzzytoad wrote:
I play this style quite a lot on the ladder (mid-master as well), and as zerg, I feel like it pretty much hinges on the blue flame hellion harrass.
If you can't do enough damage with the blue flame hellion I will scout base with my first 8 mutas and then instantly switch to infestors, picking up NP as well. I'll look for turrets being put up and if I feel like there aren't enough I'll just flood mass muta and magic box them over your thors for the win. If you do get the turrets in time/in the right position/amount, I'll just use the mutas for map control against your hellions while getting the infestors. The timing works out to around when you move out so I'll have like 5-6 infestors with mass lings and around 8-12 mutas against the mech army.
I'll also be taking bases 4 and 5 here as well.
Basically before the engagement I will wait for the "hellion poke" to land a fungal, and from there its pretty much over since you will have no answer for my lings. During the engagement I'll NP your thors as well and magic box my mutas over them.
I think typically around this timing your army composition is something like 15 hellions, 6-8 thors, 0-2 tanks, depending on whether or not you get tanks or thors.
Anyways I have no problem holding and from there I'll just have brood lords and win.
Only 2 tanks lategame? Lol? Well, if you cut tank production for reactor hellions and double Thor production... Yeah... Sounds about right... But it's not really lategame... It's like midgame/end of midgame timing. Late game is when Zerg has Broodlord+Infestors and Terran should have 3-4 bases and near max army (after several engagements, so this relies on how well Terran retains his army).
Terran really shouldnt lose his army unless killing a third, going mech is all about getting expos and taking your half of the map and 2 thor production why? Unless going really really heavy muta, duh your catching the terran with his pants down, you need to have constant scouting in order to execute this build correctly, having the wrong unit compisition is like a herp derp offence.
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Nice guide!
Btw thought you were familiar, haha.
I would just like to share, what I currently do (it's not working well) is get just a few tanks for Infestors in the midgame, like even 2 is enough to stop Neural, and then when I see Brood Lords, I pump ghosts from my 2 rax (i open 2 rax into mech). I don't get Vikings at all.
Maybe it's just the micro that I have trouble with, but because (correct me if I'm wrong) you cannot stop your tanks from attacking while sieged by spamming "Stop", tanks can't deal with Infestors, so that you need Ghosts to deal with the Infestors. Now if I get Vikings too, usually he has some corruptors or they just get fungal'd or such, so the Vikings don't do too much... sometimes I use my thors to help target the corruptors to keep them away, but usually there is a big roach army too, that I need my thors to be firing at. This leaves the Broodlords to be basically safe.
Now, maybe other people's experiences differ, and I would like to hear them. But when I see pro TvZ games too where they go Mech, I see this problem. So now I don't get Vikings, I just get Ghosts only since they can snipe Broodlords or just stay invisible and attack them.
But because pro terrans still get vikings in mech, and seem to always lose to the situation I described, I wonder why they still get Vikings. Are the pros simply just wrong? Were there other factors in the game that caused them to go Vikings? Maybe they guessed wrong, or were trying to mindgame, or were mindgamed, or something. But I don't see a reason to bring the fight to the air, where he could just mass Corruptors, which won't be wasted since he can just turn them into BroodLords later, and Thors don't kill Corruptors very fast.
Anyways, since Ghosts can deal with Infestors, like your guide says (you actually get Ghosts a lot earlier than me, I resort to tanks first), I've been wanting to try that, to basically skip tanks all together, which also helps with Broodlord tech since you don't always know when it will come and storing up energy on ghosts before hand is really helpful, and because Ghosts are a lot less gas intensive than Tanks (more thors yay).
So, thoughts on vikings? 
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On August 15 2011 10:25 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Nice guide! Btw thought you were familiar, haha. I would just like to share, what I currently do (it's not working well) is get just a few tanks for Infestors in the midgame, like even 2 is enough to stop Neural, and then when I see Brood Lords, I pump ghosts from my 2 rax (i open 2 rax into mech). I don't get Vikings at all. Maybe it's just the micro that I have trouble with, but because (correct me if I'm wrong) you cannot stop your tanks from attacking while sieged by spamming "Stop", tanks can't deal with Infestors, so that you need Ghosts to deal with the Infestors. Now if I get Vikings too, usually he has some corruptors or they just get fungal'd or such, so the Vikings don't do too much... sometimes I use my thors to help target the corruptors to keep them away, but usually there is a big roach army too, that I need my thors to be firing at. This leaves the Broodlords to be basically safe. Now, maybe other people's experiences differ, and I would like to hear them. But when I see pro TvZ games too where they go Mech, I see this problem. So now I don't get Vikings, I just get Ghosts only since they can snipe Broodlords or just stay invisible and attack them. But because pro terrans still get vikings in mech, and seem to always lose to the situation I described, I wonder why they still get Vikings. Are the pros simply just wrong? Were there other factors in the game that caused them to go Vikings? Maybe they guessed wrong, or were trying to mindgame, or were mindgamed, or something. But I don't see a reason to bring the fight to the air, where he could just mass Corruptors, which won't be wasted since he can just turn them into BroodLords later, and Thors don't kill Corruptors very fast. Anyways, since Ghosts can deal with Infestors, like your guide says (you actually get Ghosts a lot earlier than me, I resort to tanks first), I've been wanting to try that, to basically skip tanks all together, which also helps with Broodlord tech since you don't always know when it will come and storing up energy on ghosts before hand is really helpful, and because Ghosts are a lot less gas intensive than Tanks (more thors yay). So, thoughts on vikings?
EDIT: SOrry missed kinda your post, thats why you get 3 reactored ports, 6 vikings at a time + getting air upgrades is pretty good, + thor splash and snipe you should always be in decent shape, 3/3 thors do decent against zerg air.
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Chuck must be a baller. I usually open siege chuck though, so i have several more chucks than your chuck could chuck at any given chuck.
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Thanks for this guide it is awesome, I suck so hard at TvZ and im hoping your mech style will be something that can help me. I especially struggle with mutaling/bling and this style is perfectly catered to that.
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lol good guide but if there's just a very small paragraph of words do you really need a spoiler within a spoiler?!
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On August 15 2011 10:26 Bonkerz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2011 10:25 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Nice guide! Btw thought you were familiar, haha. I would just like to share, what I currently do (it's not working well) is get just a few tanks for Infestors in the midgame, like even 2 is enough to stop Neural, and then when I see Brood Lords, I pump ghosts from my 2 rax (i open 2 rax into mech). I don't get Vikings at all. Maybe it's just the micro that I have trouble with, but because (correct me if I'm wrong) you cannot stop your tanks from attacking while sieged by spamming "Stop", tanks can't deal with Infestors, so that you need Ghosts to deal with the Infestors. Now if I get Vikings too, usually he has some corruptors or they just get fungal'd or such, so the Vikings don't do too much... sometimes I use my thors to help target the corruptors to keep them away, but usually there is a big roach army too, that I need my thors to be firing at. This leaves the Broodlords to be basically safe. Now, maybe other people's experiences differ, and I would like to hear them. But when I see pro TvZ games too where they go Mech, I see this problem. So now I don't get Vikings, I just get Ghosts only since they can snipe Broodlords or just stay invisible and attack them. But because pro terrans still get vikings in mech, and seem to always lose to the situation I described, I wonder why they still get Vikings. Are the pros simply just wrong? Were there other factors in the game that caused them to go Vikings? Maybe they guessed wrong, or were trying to mindgame, or were mindgamed, or something. But I don't see a reason to bring the fight to the air, where he could just mass Corruptors, which won't be wasted since he can just turn them into BroodLords later, and Thors don't kill Corruptors very fast. Anyways, since Ghosts can deal with Infestors, like your guide says (you actually get Ghosts a lot earlier than me, I resort to tanks first), I've been wanting to try that, to basically skip tanks all together, which also helps with Broodlord tech since you don't always know when it will come and storing up energy on ghosts before hand is really helpful, and because Ghosts are a lot less gas intensive than Tanks (more thors yay). So, thoughts on vikings? EDIT: SOrry missed kinda your post, thats why you get 3 reactored ports, 6 vikings at a time + getting air upgrades is pretty good, + thor splash and snipe you should always be in decent shape, 3/3 thors do decent against zerg air.
Ok thanks ^-^
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On August 15 2011 13:30 antz0r wrote:
lol good guide but if there's just a very small paragraph of words do you really need a spoiler within a spoiler?!
It's not about length, just organizing things, to make it all neat, sorry if it's unapealling to you.
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the spoiler with Hydra is pretty funny xD anyway nice guide but i mostly want to see replays or ill check out ur stream
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On August 15 2011 15:54 Rykros wrote:
the spoiler with Hydra is pretty funny xD anyway nice guide but i mostly want to see replays or ill check out ur stream
Uploaded another, sorry those 2 are all I had, I'll add more as i get more :-)
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lol imma start calling my tank Chuck now. nice guide aswell
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The more I read these threads the more I want to post my TvZ extensive mech guide. I win ~90 percent of TvZ atm that goes past 12 minutes. However theres a huge amount of standards that are involved in that, and some maps are just better for mech and some are worse.
The description of pre-emptively massing vikings just because there is a greater spire can backfire on the higher levels I'd like to point out. Use extra scans to figure out if hes producing corupters and where they are being rallied to so you can find out how many you are dealing with.
also if you read this bonkers, I'd like you to include more replays. These 3 replays didn't really demonstrate a late game execution or any consistent standards.
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Upgraded mech rapes shit, but getting what upgrades can be confusing if you are still on 1 armory, Usually if i see roach i get armor first, because roaches do sooo much burst DPS, but if i see mass muta getting weapons for your thors is huge, once you get 3-6 thors, mutas just aren't really viable with thor upgrades.
Isnt that the wrong way around?
Armor reduces one damage from every attack.
Roaches do few attacks with a lot of damage per attack.
Mutas and lings do a lot of attacks with little damage per attack.
Im not sure if attack upgrades are superimportant when fighting muta's because i'm a zerg, but I think your reasoning about armor effectivity is backwards.
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Gonna read this so I know what I'm up against.
Edit: Didn't learn anything new. Oh well. At least I don't have to deal with some new abusive shit :D
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On August 15 2011 17:22 JediGamer wrote:
The more I read these threads the more I want to post my TvZ extensive mech guide. I win ~90 percent of TvZ atm that goes past 12 minutes. However theres a huge amount of standards that are involved in that, and some maps are just better for mech and some are worse.
The description of pre-emptively massing vikings just because there is a greater spire can backfire on the higher levels I'd like to point out. Use extra scans to figure out if hes producing corupters and where they are being rallied to so you can find out how many you are dealing with.
also if you read this bonkers, I'd like you to include more replays. These 3 replays didn't really demonstrate a late game execution or any consistent standards.
Ever TvZ game I'm playing on ladder is getting uploaded, read my above post, Ill add more as i keep getting them, I really talk about being ABLE to mass vikings, 3 Reactored starports, because BL's are most common Zerg T3 against this comp imo. But yes going blind mass viking is bad.
On August 15 2011 18:11 Timm wrote:Show nested quote +Upgraded mech rapes shit, but getting what upgrades can be confusing if you are still on 1 armory, Usually if i see roach i get armor first, because roaches do sooo much burst DPS, but if i see mass muta getting weapons for your thors is huge, once you get 3-6 thors, mutas just aren't really viable with thor upgrades. Isnt that the wrong way around? Armor reduces one damage from every attack. Roaches do few attacks with a lot of damage per attack. Mutas and lings do a lot of attacks with little damage per attack. Im not sure if attack upgrades are superimportant when fighting muta's because i'm a zerg, but I think your reasoning about armor effectivity is backwards.
Very possible, Mid master reasoning, Although I do think attack is pretty big when fighting mutas, but the armor thing im not sure about.
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EPT
