EPT[L] offensive counter to mutalisks in TvZ? - Page 3
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GypsyBeast
Canada630 Posts
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Catch]22
Sweden2683 Posts
And tell me again why you cant bring thors in your attack? | ||
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Squigly
United Kingdom629 Posts
While this is true (and obvious), i dont think more people saying it will help lol | ||
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0c3LoT
Canada162 Posts
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ZaaaaaM
Netherlands1828 Posts
On August 14 2011 16:40 RU206 wrote: I play Terran and my biggest problem is when I am up against Zerg and they have mutalisks. I just can't seem to find a good way to kill them. Marines are too weak and susceptible to other units, Vikings get wrecked by mutas, and Thors, while good with splash damage, seem to always get out maneuvered by them and like the marines are susceptible to other units as well. So, any advice on how to counter mutalisks? Honestly the only way I can win against Zerg at this point is to wreck them before they get mutas, and then afterwards it's a stalemate for like 40 minutes. Thanks for any help. I don't really need any advanced strategies yet - I'm in high Bronze league, so generally "get a lot of mutalisks and attack with them!" is pretty much the extent of the strategy I'm up against. M-- M...Marines.. T-t--oo weak..... O.O Altho, just marines and 1-2 thors to keep the zerg on his feet while controlling his muta's and punish him HARD if he doesn't. There arent many other options, let alone better ones, marines DESTROY muta's in a fair fight. | ||
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firehand101
Australia3152 Posts
Here is what you do: most good zergs (if you did not pressure them at the start) will have their mutas out at about 8-10 minutes and will start looking to harass you. You will need a turret at each mineral line and maybe one or two more at each base near important structures. If mutas come to your mineral line, make sure you get your scvs to repair the turrets and it should repel them. after about 12 minutes, add a couple more turrets, as the flock will be getting bigger. Then later, add about 2-3 thors into your army. As zerg this is actually a huge pain, because when you are moving across the map, swooping in to kill some tanks is so risky because a clump shot may hit any time with a thor and all will do culmative damage of 1000+. These are just some tips but at the end of the day: you are still only in bronze. Keep practicing and getting used to the feel of when the zerg will have mutas out, and see how you like to defend: ie more turrets, thors, stim marines. Keep trying and you will improve  | ||
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Hossinaut
United States453 Posts
if 3 marines kill 1 muta, and marines are weak to banelings, build bunkers at your contain. Not too many, but a few. Get the bunker storage upgrade, and you can nearly autodial 2 mutas for free. Similarly, turrets are really good to deter movement in an area, and supported by thors and marines, will make it hard to get within a contained area or outside of a contained area. The thing is, in Starcraft, nothing has a "counter". Sure, that term is thrown around a lot, and it makes a lot of sense in a lot of situations, but IMHO, SC2 is more a game of balancing your units against his (composition-wise). Not only that, but SC2 is a game of positioning. You need to be prepared with how your units are positioned. Ive won a bunch of games by scouting a force moving out and catching it out of position. Its important that you don't say I want A SINGLE UNIT to counter ANOTHER SINGLE UNIT. A better way of saying the concept of "how do i deal with Unit X" is what units do well together, and how can my utilization of those units be made to deal the best with Unit X or Unit composition X. Just my two cents, I hope it made you think :D | ||
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Squigly
United Kingdom629 Posts
On August 20 2011 08:04 Hossinaut wrote: The thing I think, I've been playing around with the idea for a while, and Idk if its any good, probably isn't, is offensive turrets/bunkers. if 3 marines kill 1 muta, and marines are weak to banelings, build bunkers at your contain. Not too many, but a few. Get the bunker storage upgrade, and you can nearly autodial 2 mutas for free. Similarly, turrets are really good to deter movement in an area, and supported by thors and marines, will make it hard to get within a contained area or outside of a contained area. The thing is, in Starcraft, nothing has a "counter". Sure, that term is thrown around a lot, and it makes a lot of sense in a lot of situations, but IMHO, SC2 is more a game of balancing your units against his (composition-wise). Not only that, but SC2 is a game of positioning. You need to be prepared with how your units are positioned. Ive won a bunch of games by scouting a force moving out and catching it out of position. Its important that you don't say I want A SINGLE UNIT to counter ANOTHER SINGLE UNIT. A better way of saying the concept of "how do i deal with Unit X" is what units do well together, and how can my utilization of those units be made to deal the best with Unit X or Unit composition X. Just my two cents, I hope it made you think :D Voids counter roaches. | ||
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Hook829
United States8 Posts
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Sinu
Finland2 Posts
I Would make more barracks (maybe 3-6) and get combat shield and stim. Get 3-4 siege tanks from one factory and try to attack before he has lots of mutas (before 10 minutes?) with tanks and marines. Keep making units from hotkeyed barracks & factory while moving/watching your army. Keep marines behind tanks so you dont lose them to banelings. Maybe use naked starport to make couple medivacs or one viking if you can afford it. | ||
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deathabene
Denmark83 Posts
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Squigly
United Kingdom629 Posts
On August 20 2011 21:58 Hook829 wrote: Zerg here, TvZ is actually my worst matchup. This is bronze league so I'm not sure how much strategy your opponents are using, but let's look at the main idea behind people even using Muta. Mutalisks are pretty frail units unless you allow your opponent to obtain a critical mass of them. To my knowledge, there is no way your opponent can have Muta until the 9-10 minute mark. You need to pressure the Zerg, even if you don't fully commit to an attack, to make units instead of drones, thus delaying the muta. Turrets usually scare them away, as mutas are intended to attack and flee before taking any damage. Look up good ways to position your thors and marines so you can quickly respond to the pack. Also, I realize it's tough to maintain vision on the map with Muta out, but try to track their movements as much as possible. All of this is easier said then done, and I dread the day that you make it up to my league and shut down my harass, but I'm happy to help! Well technically you can get 6 mutas out before 7 min. But thats kinda all in muta rush when not being pressured. | ||
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ChaZzza
United Kingdom162 Posts
and thors as the above posters have mentionned. I would hazard a guess that you don't like marines, as your replay showed that after spotting zerg's air units u build.... more tanks and banshees! You need to build more marines, and by that I mean more barracks and lots of marines, with stimpack. Remember that while the flappies are fast and annoying, they are rubbish at direct engagements so if they have invested in lots of mutalisks you should build some defenses and be aggressive. The mutas will melt under pressure. | ||
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Maxie
Sweden2653 Posts
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topeg__
United States10 Posts
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Squigly
United Kingdom629 Posts
On August 21 2011 06:57 topeg__ wrote: if your bronze league, you just need to focus on your build order. I didnt watch the replay but i can almost 100% guarantee that if you can get a 3 rax build order down you wont have to worry about mass mutas. 3 rax can carry you all the way up to platinum league if you do it right. Just my 2 cents Prepare for your warning/ban However getting a build order down isnt a bad shout. | ||
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Joey Wheeler
Korea (North)276 Posts
so just spam turrets, take a fast third, and push maxed 200/200 marine/tank and 2-3 thors. If he made 30 mutas there's no way he's going to beat you because the mutalisks are going to die instantly. Even if you think putting too many turrets down is expensive, you're wrong because MULEs mean everything that doesn't cost gas is free. | ||
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T0fuuu
Australia2275 Posts
On August 20 2011 02:29 RU206 wrote: hey guys i have a replay of me just playing against a zerg (hes platinum league, im still bronze lol). please don't make fun of how bad i am... i just really didnt know what to do. http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/12095 Ignore everybody that hasnt watched your replay or quoted your replay because they are just venting about their own losses. Your problem is that you are building missile turrets too early. Missile turrets shoot air and detect burrowed units. Before lair tech zerg cant have burrowed or offensive flying units. You should only go for turrets when you see lair and a spire or you see lair and you are suspicious of burrowed roaches. The 400 minerals you spent on turrets before the 7 minute mark should of been spent on another command centre or additional barracks to make marines with. The Other 6 turrets you built before 12minutes you should of spent on units and even more barracks if you think the zerg is going to commit heavily to mutas. The zerg got mutas at 13 minutes. You could start building turrets at 12 and still be safe when the mutas arrive. What strong terrans do is commit the minimum amount of resources to turrets and just defend with marines until they are willing to push. Then they put up extra turrets at their base when they move out. As for when to move out to attack the zerg I cant really say because you always have the choice of expanding or attacking depending on how many offensive units the zerg has made. | ||
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topeg__
United States10 Posts
On August 21 2011 11:35 Squigly wrote: Prepare for your warning/ban However getting a build order down isnt a bad shout. haha why?? | ||
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Twelve12
Australia268 Posts
I think he meant cause you didn't watch the replay but idk. I think everyone is thinking too much about 'counters'. The real thing you need to work on is your macro. Practice your build against a computer till you feel like you are constantly making scvs, not getting supply blocked and spending all your money. I think you'll find you will have no troubles once your play becomes more smooth and you'll find that it's not really mutas that were the trouble in the first place, but rather your macro and mechanics etc. | ||
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