• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:17
CEST 12:17
KST 19:17
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting10[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4)5
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 13-19): Clem Goes for Four0BSL Team A vs Koreans - Sat-Sun 16:00 CET6Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO85.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)80Weekly Cups (Sept 29-Oct 5): MaxPax triples up3
StarCraft 2
General
herO joins T1 Weekly Cups (Oct 13-19): Clem Goes for Four The New Patch Killed Mech! TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting Stellar Fest: StarCraft II returns to Canada
Tourneys
INu's Battles #13 - ByuN vs Zoun Tenacious Turtle Tussle SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 19 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $1,200 WardiTV October (Oct 21st-31st)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment Mutation # 493 Quick Killers
Brood War
General
BSL Season 21 BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW caster Sayle BSL Team A vs Koreans - Sat-Sun 16:00 CET
Tourneys
[ASL20] Semifinal B Azhi's Colosseum - Anonymous Tournament [Megathread] Daily Proleagues SC4ALL $1,500 Open Bracket LAN
Strategy
Current Meta BW - ajfirecracker Strategy & Training Relatively freeroll strategies Siegecraft - a new perspective
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Men's Fashion Thread Sex and weight loss
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Series you have seen recently... Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The Heroism of Pepe the Fro…
Peanutsc
Rocket League: Traits, Abili…
TrAiDoS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1220 users

[G] PvZ 2 Gate FE 10-16 - Page 3

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 7 8 9 Next All
eatmybunnies
Profile Joined October 2010
United States90 Posts
August 12 2011 16:00 GMT
#41
On August 13 2011 00:56 iChau wrote:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253184

"FFE vs 1GFE" There's a lot of things you can read here to understand the pros and cons of each builds.





HMM yea i do see a difference thanks
CecilSunkure
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2829 Posts
August 12 2011 16:28 GMT
#42
Interesting opening, coolest part is the early Blink. Looks like you get a slightly earlier Nexus and trade a Gateway. I think it would be more robust if you got more Gates, but then just didn't make units out of them, that way you have the potential to use your infrastructure if need be. This allows you to also cut an earlier cannon, and make it later on when you don't need the minerals so much (just before you Blink out, for example).

If I wanted an earlier Nexus I'd rather copy oGsMC's 1 Gate FE, as it's honestly a more robust and flexible opening due to the earlier Nexus and higher Gate count.
EliteReplay
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Dominican Republic913 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-12 16:46:16
August 12 2011 16:45 GMT
#43
What i like about this Guide is the fact that he explain when or not attack a zerg, and what to do in all the cases. if the other guides explain things like that would be better
if play random i can't call any race imba?
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
August 12 2011 16:52 GMT
#44
ty so much, I will practice this hardcore this weekend
beep boop
Flonomenalz
Profile Joined May 2011
Nigeria3519 Posts
August 12 2011 16:52 GMT
#45
Umm I have a question. Now if I were to scout a 2 gate FE, I would get a really fast third (around 5:20). You said that fast thirds are usually defended with just speedlings, which is true. But if you come attack me, how do you stop me from simply doing a runby and killing/preventing your expansion? You won't have enough units to defend if you do attack me, so it's either you save your nexus, or you kill my third, by which time i would spine up my natural, and it's 1 base vs 2 base.

Then again, it's all dependant on scouting, if I'm able to scout your 2 gate FE and if I'm able to scout your attack coming... I really like this build. Punishes my greed =(
I love crazymoving
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-12 16:59:44
August 12 2011 16:59 GMT
#46
On August 13 2011 01:28 CecilSunkure wrote:
Interesting opening, coolest part is the early Blink. Looks like you get a slightly earlier Nexus and trade a Gateway. I think it would be more robust if you got more Gates, but then just didn't make units out of them, that way you have the potential to use your infrastructure if need be. This allows you to also cut an earlier cannon, and make it later on when you don't need the minerals so much (just before you Blink out, for example).

If I wanted an earlier Nexus I'd rather copy oGsMC's 1 Gate FE, as it's honestly a more robust and flexible opening due to the earlier Nexus and higher Gate count.


I like MCs build but sometimes I'm unsure of what to do with the stargate after building the first void ray... is it ok to just build nothing out of it after the first void ray and go for sth like blink +gates asap instead or should I always use the stargate and keep building phoenixes?
beep boop
CecilSunkure
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2829 Posts
August 12 2011 17:05 GMT
#47
On August 13 2011 01:59 7mk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2011 01:28 CecilSunkure wrote:
Interesting opening, coolest part is the early Blink. Looks like you get a slightly earlier Nexus and trade a Gateway. I think it would be more robust if you got more Gates, but then just didn't make units out of them, that way you have the potential to use your infrastructure if need be. This allows you to also cut an earlier cannon, and make it later on when you don't need the minerals so much (just before you Blink out, for example).

If I wanted an earlier Nexus I'd rather copy oGsMC's 1 Gate FE, as it's honestly a more robust and flexible opening due to the earlier Nexus and higher Gate count.


I like MCs build but sometimes I'm unsure of what to do with the stargate after building the first void ray... is it ok to just build nothing out of it after the first void ray and go for sth like blink +gates asap instead or should I always use the stargate and keep building phoenixes?

Not sure if this should be discussed in Time's topic, but I suppose it's relevant since you can get a Stargate with Time's opening instead of Blink. The first voidray should be used to clear Xel'Nagas, pressure new hatcheries, basically it's a form of map presence. The Phoenix are good after the Voidray (since the Voidray can shoot without using energy) because they have better burst power, as in can kill 5 drones really fast then run away very fast. They are also very useful mid-game in defending attacks. But you can cut the phoenix and do something else, because if you get Phoenix and don't know how to use them, you're better off spending that money elsewhere.
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-12 17:18:03
August 12 2011 17:17 GMT
#48
One thing that annoys me is that it seems like as soon as he infestors I cant do anything with them cause fungal will just kill them all. Although I could still use them much much better than I do atm while infestors arent out yet.
appreciate your comments as always
beep boop
GxZ
Profile Joined April 2010
United States375 Posts
August 12 2011 17:19 GMT
#49
Good read time.
iSTime
Profile Joined November 2006
1579 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-12 17:22:04
August 12 2011 17:20 GMT
#50
As for 3 gate expand vs 2 gate expand, I get a slightly faster nexus/forge, and I feel completely safe against early aggression. Without cutting probes or delaying my tech, I cannot afford to use a third gateway whatsoever, so I don't see the point in making a third gate.

On August 12 2011 21:09 Anfi wrote:
Not entirely certain as to why this build is bad on tal'darim.
Is it just the distance?


Yes, mostly.

On August 12 2011 21:43 FederigoEU wrote:
I still die to infestors with this opening , , i deny his thrid when the Z plays Destiny Style , but after that it goes downwars .

Against other playstyles this BO is AWESOME ! But what is my response to the Infestor play ? Sorry cant look replay right know cause i am at work :>


Plz watch replays first and/or post a replay of yours and I'll take a look at it when I get the chance.

On August 13 2011 00:23 eatmybunnies wrote:
I'm kind of confused on why you dont just FFE. I mean you need a forge to defend a 6 pool anyway and your nexus will be up so much sooner. And any early aggression gets stopped when he sees 2-3 cannons. Your eco will be even with the zerg.


I do not need forge against 6 pool, since you can easily hold it off using probes to help when your pylon+gate are near your nexus.

With forge FE, you have far worse scouting, since your sentries come out a lot later and you will not be able to utilize hallucinate early game.

It's a completely different style of play, opening forge FE vs 1/2/3 gate FE, but I'm sure you can take similar midgame strategies and use them from a forge FE if you worked on it.

On August 13 2011 01:28 CecilSunkure wrote:
Interesting opening, coolest part is the early Blink. Looks like you get a slightly earlier Nexus and trade a Gateway. I think it would be more robust if you got more Gates, but then just didn't make units out of them, that way you have the potential to use your infrastructure if need be. This allows you to also cut an earlier cannon, and make it later on when you don't need the minerals so much (just before you Blink out, for example).

If I wanted an earlier Nexus I'd rather copy oGsMC's 1 Gate FE, as it's honestly a more robust and flexible opening due to the earlier Nexus and higher Gate count.


I'll look into learning oGsMC's 1 gate FE. Currently I only 1 gate FE against really late gas, but my teammate alej has told me that you can be safe doing that even against more aggressive openings. I have tried 1 gate FE variants in the past, but I struggled against players like slush, lowely, and random ladder zergs who play very aggressively and pump lings at weird timings.

EDIT: About MC's 1 gate FE, does it rely on the void ray to defend against roach/ling aggression, or could I still get blink as quickly? I am not a huge fan of opening stargate on maps where the third is at any reasonable distance from the zerg's natural, since they can shut it down completely with spores/queens and drone to like 80.



www.infinityseven.net
iSTime
Profile Joined November 2006
1579 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-12 18:05:31
August 12 2011 17:32 GMT
#51
On August 13 2011 01:52 Flonomenalz wrote:
Umm I have a question. Now if I were to scout a 2 gate FE, I would get a really fast third (around 5:20). You said that fast thirds are usually defended with just speedlings, which is true. But if you come attack me, how do you stop me from simply doing a runby and killing/preventing your expansion? You won't have enough units to defend if you do attack me, so it's either you save your nexus, or you kill my third, by which time i would spine up my natural, and it's 1 base vs 2 base.

Then again, it's all dependant on scouting, if I'm able to scout your 2 gate FE and if I'm able to scout your attack coming... I really like this build. Punishes my greed =(


I've never seen a third get thrown down at 5:20, the earliest I've seen is about 6:20. Anyway, with a hatchery at 5:20 it won't finish until 7:00, at which point I will have 2 cannons very soon, and can push out with 2 zealots 5 sentries and a stalker if my scouting probe saw your super early hatch.

Do you have a replay of you doing that?

EDIT: I added a replay dealing with a similar build.
www.infinityseven.net
CecilSunkure
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2829 Posts
August 12 2011 17:34 GMT
#52
On August 13 2011 02:20 vVvTime wrote:EDIT: About MC's 1 gate FE, does it rely on the void ray to defend against roach/ling aggression, or could I still get blink as quickly? I am not a huge fan of opening stargate on maps where the third is at any reasonable distance from the zerg's natural, since they can shut it down completely with spores/queens and drone to like 80.

It's my understanding that he prefers the Stargate since he can use it to see everything anytime, and constantly look over the attack paths of the Zerg. But I don't see a reason why you can't just go for Blink. MC even gets 3+ Gates and just doesn't use them if he sees the Zerg playing passive. I'd imagine you'd get 5 Gates + Twilight, so the defense sounds to me to be a comparison between 5 Gates and 3 Gates + Stargate.

Though I think it's pretty important to note that you use your Gates with the MC style expand to wall the Natural. I'd imagine if a lot of lings were pumped at a strange time you'd place those Gates at the natural, while chronoing things out of your single Gateway. Then take the Nexus when you've pressed the lings away. At least that's what I've tried to do. It will delay your Nexus a little bit because the Gates are likely to be delayed, but hey he just made a bunch of lings so he's delayed as well.
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
August 12 2011 17:55 GMT
#53
Hmmm I dont know if its possible to defend roach ling all in without the stargate. I have idra vs MC on typhon peaks loaded up right now. MC has 5 sentries 3 zealots to defend against 8 roaches and 33 lings. One void ray is building, about 60% complete and he has all 3 gateways ready BUT at first he only has the money to warp in 1 stalker. So I dont think you could make the use out of 5 gateways. even if you did you would only have about 2 units more at the time the attack hits.

pure Ling all ins on the other hand arent that hard in my experience since the wall off comes really early and wall off + force fields can beat infinity lings I guess.
beep boop
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-12 17:58:56
August 12 2011 17:56 GMT
#54
Oh and I saw the replays vs lowely vs slush so far, what I dont like is how all in it is. against slush you didnt even break down any of the rocks on xel naga to make Z think you might expand. For an all in its certainly strong though.
I'll watch the rest of the replays now.
beep boop
Flonomenalz
Profile Joined May 2011
Nigeria3519 Posts
August 12 2011 18:22 GMT
#55
On August 13 2011 02:32 vVvTime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2011 01:52 Flonomenalz wrote:
Umm I have a question. Now if I were to scout a 2 gate FE, I would get a really fast third (around 5:20). You said that fast thirds are usually defended with just speedlings, which is true. But if you come attack me, how do you stop me from simply doing a runby and killing/preventing your expansion? You won't have enough units to defend if you do attack me, so it's either you save your nexus, or you kill my third, by which time i would spine up my natural, and it's 1 base vs 2 base.

Then again, it's all dependant on scouting, if I'm able to scout your 2 gate FE and if I'm able to scout your attack coming... I really like this build. Punishes my greed =(


I've never seen a third get thrown down at 5:20, the earliest I've seen is about 6:20. Anyway, with a hatchery at 5:20 it won't finish until 7:00, at which point I will have 2 cannons very soon, and can push out with 2 zealots 5 sentries and a stalker if my scouting probe saw your super early hatch.

Do you have a replay of you doing that?

EDIT: I added a replay dealing with a similar build.

I'll watch the replay once I get home (on the bus, posting from fone). The fast third (aroun 5-5:30) is a somewhat newer style of PvZ, inspired by Nestea and Losira (they do it almost all their PvZs). The thing is though, on a map like say Shakuras, you're safe no matter how you open up. But on a wide open natural, 2 cannons isn't going to stop my 20+ speedlings from tearing up your expansion. If I scout 2 gate FE with a 35 expo, it's the same as with any Toss expo. Either put pressure on them, or let them expand and take a fast third. I do both, especially since I'll probably see your attack coming with Xel naga towers and ling pokes.
I love crazymoving
SeaSwift
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Scotland4486 Posts
August 12 2011 18:42 GMT
#56
Very interesting build, will take a look at it and make my own conclusions.

vVvTime, I now use your PvP 1gate Robo into Blink (like in your VOD vs Katari) and hopefully your PvZ 2gate expand. Do you have any preferred PvT builds?
SpaNkinG
Profile Joined May 2010
Turkey89 Posts
August 12 2011 18:42 GMT
#57
hmm seems interesting Time,
i normally never copy strat's from here but this sounds solid , safe and you still have enough to pressure your oponent!
thanks mate
it's nice to be important but it's more important to be nice
J.E.G.
Profile Joined May 2010
United States389 Posts
August 12 2011 18:44 GMT
#58
Do you have any replays of this against a 5RR? I think it would hold it off since you chrono WG so much, but just wondering
Do or do not; there is no try.
iSTime
Profile Joined November 2006
1579 Posts
August 12 2011 18:46 GMT
#59
On August 13 2011 03:42 SeaSwift wrote:
Very interesting build, will take a look at it and make my own conclusions.

vVvTime, I now use your PvP 1gate Robo into Blink (like in your VOD vs Katari) and hopefully your PvZ 2gate expand. Do you have any preferred PvT builds?


I have a 2 gate FE against PvT as well (currently with many sentries to deal with reactor+tech lab 2 rax), but I have a blink expand build in PvT that I'll write up after I play a lot more games with it and get the timings+responses down.

Also I'm gonna write a mothership rush PvZ guide later this week.
www.infinityseven.net
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
August 12 2011 18:54 GMT
#60
On August 13 2011 03:46 vVvTime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2011 03:42 SeaSwift wrote:
Very interesting build, will take a look at it and make my own conclusions.

vVvTime, I now use your PvP 1gate Robo into Blink (like in your VOD vs Katari) and hopefully your PvZ 2gate expand. Do you have any preferred PvT builds?


Also I'm gonna write a mothership rush PvZ guide later this week.


Will you have my babies? If mommyship rushing is actually a viable all-in, im the happiest person ever.

On a serious note, i have a couple questions after playing a few games with this build:
1) say i scout really late or no third at 9.30, either because he's just bad (yay for diamond ladder) or is doing some funky hydra-ling allin or fast infestor play. At this point i should just not pressure when +1 and blink finish, and kill him off with the colosuss all-in, correct?
2) It seems like you think that nothing without bane bombs can hold your colossus all-in, mostly. Is this the case? In your replays you really rarely take a third, and it seems to work out really well.
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 7 8 9 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
10:00
LiuLi Cup #46 - Day 1
CranKy Ducklings32
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Reynor 346
OGKoka 241
SortOf 140
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 2172
Bisu 1375
Zeus 1069
Horang2 1042
GuemChi 962
Killer 537
Larva 522
actioN 489
Mong 452
TY 409
[ Show more ]
Stork 261
Jaedong 254
hero 252
Hyun 160
Soma 157
Flash 155
Mini 145
PianO 134
EffOrt 132
Pusan 109
JYJ104
ggaemo 62
yabsab 51
Barracks 48
Aegong 46
Rush 45
Shine 25
Bale 25
sorry 24
soO 23
Sharp 21
Sacsri 20
Noble 19
JulyZerg 6
Dota 2
XaKoH 414
XcaliburYe225
League of Legends
JimRising 470
Counter-Strike
olofmeister2087
shoxiejesuss897
x6flipin162
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King110
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor167
Other Games
summit1g11083
singsing963
ceh9573
Pyrionflax170
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 8
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 36
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• HappyZerGling132
Upcoming Events
INu's Battles
43m
ByuN vs Zoun
Monday Night Weeklies
5h 43m
Replay Cast
12h 43m
WardiTV Invitational
1d
WardiTV Invitational
1d 4h
PiGosaur Monday
1d 13h
Replay Cast
1d 23h
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
OSC
3 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
Online Event
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Snow vs Soma
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
CrankTV Team League
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS2
WardiTV TLMC #15
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
EC S1
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
RSL Offline Finals
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
CranK Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.