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So the big picture of this build is sacrificing econ (later nexus and less chrono on probes) for safety and intel. It'd be a pretty good ladder build.
Suggestions:
1. have you tried hallucinating a void for scouting and sending it pass the watchtower? It would get the same thing done (but take longer) and with 7 chronos on cybercore it seems it would look like a quick void, enough to make zerg scramble their queens.
2. your build's strength is safety and INTEL. I suggest studying more replays or try playing zerg yourself, to make better use of the intel. It seems you have pidgeonholed yourself into 2 timings, and 3 flow-chart-esque responses, when you should be real-time adapting from the amazing scouting your build allows you. There is no set "build" for zerg, every zerg player has different hatch timings, evo timings, drone pattern/counts, etc. and hence different timings of weakness.
Hope this helps! This can be an awesome ladder build. I would like to add that if a zerg takes an easy 3rd and you take a greedy 3rd in response (if u use this build), it may seem greedy to you but you are conceding the advantage to the zerg, because your probe count is sub-par.
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Reupload on sc2replay pretty please.
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Ye I think the replays are borked...
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Thank you sir! Have you tried this build out against Zerg?
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great build order and explanation. I've been using a similar 2 gate expand opening, and I love your building placement and the transition into 2 well-defined timing attacks.
Nice thread, thanks and keep posting!
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Have you tried chronoing out units, instead of the warpgate?
It seems a little less important to get warpgate fast, when you don't have that many gates.
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On September 10 2011 18:02 ejozl wrote:
Have you tried chronoing out units, instead of the warpgate?
It seems a little less important to get warpgate fast, when you don't have that many gates.
I haven't tried this, but my initial reaction is that because you have to spend the resources on the units earlier, this would probably delay the nexus a bit.
If you have tested a slightly different build order that you think is more optimal feel free to post replays and I might look at it when I get the chance.
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anyone have replays of this versus a 7 RR?
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I have been using this build to great success, pretty much 100% win ratio against Z around my diamond level. However I lost to this one zerg and I really cant figure out why.
So if anyone could give me a few pointers. It would be greatly appreciated.
http://www.users.on.net/~rice69/Helpplease.SC2Replay - Replay
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On September 12 2011 12:10 Mitchlew wrote:I have been using this build to great success, pretty much 100% win ratio against Z around my diamond level. However I lost to this one zerg and I really cant figure out why. So if anyone could give me a few pointers. It would be greatly appreciated. http://www.users.on.net/~rice69/Helpplease.SC2Replay - Replay
Your opponent went hatch first and you still took your expo after 2 gates, which puts you behind. Also you should really build your 2nd pylon on 15 or 16 supply.
I think the biggest error was during your first big push, though. You have 7 full energy sentries and blink, but you don't use a single force field, guardian shield, or blink.
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Had another game where I scouted an extremely quick third. I do what I usually do and go and kill his third asap, however he some how had enough speedlings to easily take out my force.
Is it becasue his third was so far away it was safe? How should have I properly reacted. I am thinking about buying some lessons from you.
Replay: http://www.users.on.net/~rice69/earlyexpand.SC2Replay
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On September 12 2011 20:54 Mitchlew wrote:Had another game where I scouted an extremely quick third. I do what I usually do and go and kill his third asap, however he some how had enough speedlings to easily take out my force. Is it becasue his third was so far away it was safe? How should have I properly reacted. I am thinking about buying some lessons from you. Replay: http://www.users.on.net/~rice69/earlyexpand.SC2Replay
Two reasons
a) It wasn't a particularly fast third, 8:00 is reasonably standard.
b) Your execution of the build wasn't good, so everything was late and you did not have enough stuff.
You also need to transfer probes over to your natural, because you lost a lot of minerals due to inefficient mining.
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On September 12 2011 21:49 ForTheDr3am wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2011 20:54 Mitchlew wrote:Had another game where I scouted an extremely quick third. I do what I usually do and go and kill his third asap, however he some how had enough speedlings to easily take out my force. Is it becasue his third was so far away it was safe? How should have I properly reacted. I am thinking about buying some lessons from you. Replay: http://www.users.on.net/~rice69/earlyexpand.SC2Replay Two reasons a) It wasn't a particularly fast third, 8:00 is reasonably standard. b) Your execution of the build wasn't good, so everything was late and you did not have enough stuff. You also need to transfer probes over to your natural, because you lost a lot of minerals due to inefficient mining.
Thanks very much for taking the time to help me. I understand now. Thank you very much.
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On September 12 2011 15:18 iSTime wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2011 12:10 Mitchlew wrote:I have been using this build to great success, pretty much 100% win ratio against Z around my diamond level. However I lost to this one zerg and I really cant figure out why. So if anyone could give me a few pointers. It would be greatly appreciated. http://www.users.on.net/~rice69/Helpplease.SC2Replay - Replay Your opponent went hatch first and you still took your expo after 2 gates, which puts you behind. Also you should really build your 2nd pylon on 15 or 16 supply. I think the biggest error was during your first big push, though. You have 7 full energy sentries and blink, but you don't use a single force field, guardian shield, or blink.
I just had a game on xelnaga where my opponent went hatch first so I thought it would be safe to do a 1 gate expand. I ended up getting crushed my a roach ling attack. I looked at the replay he still had more harvesters than me and was able to get an army out. Is it really viable to 1 gate FE after opponent goes hatch first.
Maybe I should have put forge down before 2nd gate?
Replay: http://www.users.on.net/~rice69/hatchfirst.SC2Replay
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On September 13 2011 11:13 Mitchlew wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2011 15:18 iSTime wrote:On September 12 2011 12:10 Mitchlew wrote:I have been using this build to great success, pretty much 100% win ratio against Z around my diamond level. However I lost to this one zerg and I really cant figure out why. So if anyone could give me a few pointers. It would be greatly appreciated. http://www.users.on.net/~rice69/Helpplease.SC2Replay - Replay Your opponent went hatch first and you still took your expo after 2 gates, which puts you behind. Also you should really build your 2nd pylon on 15 or 16 supply. I think the biggest error was during your first big push, though. You have 7 full energy sentries and blink, but you don't use a single force field, guardian shield, or blink. I just had a game on xelnaga where my opponent went hatch first so I thought it would be safe to do a 1 gate expand. I ended up getting crushed my a roach ling attack. I looked at the replay he still had more harvesters than me and was able to get an army out. Is it really viable to 1 gate FE after opponent goes hatch first. Maybe I should have put forge down before 2nd gate? Replay: http://www.users.on.net/~rice69/hatchfirst.SC2Replay
It takes a good amount of practice to hold that with a 1 gate FE no matter how he opened... Keep at it. I personally like to get a forge and cannons, but then again, thats a different build.
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On September 13 2011 11:13 Mitchlew wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2011 15:18 iSTime wrote:On September 12 2011 12:10 Mitchlew wrote:I have been using this build to great success, pretty much 100% win ratio against Z around my diamond level. However I lost to this one zerg and I really cant figure out why. So if anyone could give me a few pointers. It would be greatly appreciated. http://www.users.on.net/~rice69/Helpplease.SC2Replay - Replay Your opponent went hatch first and you still took your expo after 2 gates, which puts you behind. Also you should really build your 2nd pylon on 15 or 16 supply. I think the biggest error was during your first big push, though. You have 7 full energy sentries and blink, but you don't use a single force field, guardian shield, or blink. I just had a game on xelnaga where my opponent went hatch first so I thought it would be safe to do a 1 gate expand. I ended up getting crushed my a roach ling attack. I looked at the replay he still had more harvesters than me and was able to get an army out. Is it really viable to 1 gate FE after opponent goes hatch first. Maybe I should have put forge down before 2nd gate? Replay: http://www.users.on.net/~rice69/hatchfirst.SC2Replay
You did not scout at all. You should always send your scouting probe back into their base around 4:00. Since he had no lings and no queen you would have seen the roach warren.
Also against late gas you need to send the zealot and stalker to harass. If for whatever reason your probe got no scouting intel, this poke will give you more information, as well as force lings, which you need to do to stay even with hatch first.
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How fast constitutes a "Greedy" third base? I've had several Zergs take a 3rd base at around 6 minutes while doing this 2 gate expand build, I research blink and move out at 10 minutes to kill it, and he has enough roaches or speedlings or infestors out to stop the push easily by the time I get there.
In this game I just played, for example.
http://www.mediafire.com/?ancsxe0y2g2223s
Zerg got a 6 minute 3rd, and by the time blink is done he has like 40 speedlings and I lose everything when I move out. Granted, my micro could have been better, but I'm pretty sure as long as he kept pumping out speedlings I can't kill that 3rd. Please let me know if I'm wrong.
Sigh, I feel like I just don't understand this matchup at all anymore.
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Great Guide!
Helped me a lot in my PvZ.
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EPT
