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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On December 18 2011 13:45 wOrD yO wrote:
edit:
if one was facing tvp and P is archon zealot, is it smart to get cloak and emp or is it better to just blanket EMP to save energy? thanks.
oh stupid question you can cloak with ghosts and still emp twice ^_^
ok so another question, when LINING THEM UP!! can you shift attack and go back to macro or is smarter to just a move?
thanks
if you have a crapton of ghosts then just cloak, if they're pushing into you theres no real need? to cloak but if you kill obs and have cloaked ghosts its perfect for you.
vs HT in general tho cloak is infinitely better than without due to feedbacks.
i assume you're talking about hellions - just hotkey all your production why are you looking back to macro?
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On December 18 2011 09:10 Clazziquai10 wrote:
Hi guys, a few TvZ questions - have been having a lot of problems in this matchup lately.
1) What is the appropriate response to seeing 2 fast evo chambers by zerg for quick 1/1 upgrades? (I usually reactor hellion expand)
2) When mutas are on the map keeping me pinned in my base, what should I be prioritizing? Upgrades? Expansions? Defence? Should I be aggressive at all like drops and stuff?
I'm gonna second these questions. What should we do?
1. Since the zerg is mass upgrading, do we just sit back and expand while dropping to nullify the upgrade advantage?
2. When is it safe to move out? Should we just go attack if there's only 8-9 mutas to force him to defend? What about a cloud of 20-25-30 mutalisks?
and another question,
3) PF's or OC with bunker+wall?
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This might have already been posted in this thread, but i don't feel like digging through 93 pages of material. My question is how do you deal with blink stalker with obs or warp prism with fourgate when you gasless FE? Seems without the bunker my marine heavy army is just useless...
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On December 18 2011 13:58 KawaiiRice wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2011 13:45 wOrD yO wrote:
edit:
if one was facing tvp and P is archon zealot, is it smart to get cloak and emp or is it better to just blanket EMP to save energy? thanks.
oh stupid question you can cloak with ghosts and still emp twice ^_^
ok so another question, when LINING THEM UP!! can you shift attack and go back to macro or is smarter to just a move?
thanks if you have a crapton of ghosts then just cloak, if they're pushing into you theres no real need? to cloak but if you kill obs and have cloaked ghosts its perfect for you. vs HT in general tho cloak is infinitely better than without due to feedbacks. i assume you're talking about hellions - just hotkey all your production why are you looking back to macro?
thanks for the reply kawaii,
I meant macroing as in building production facilities, expanding. Also I was thinking again. In the matchup of TvT
I was thinking about cloak banshees how they are really great if you keep them alive and get a few scvs, just to snipe sieged tanks mid game. I want to mix it up is there any option of drop play that i can do and what are the steps following up to take cancel out banshees? build a viking and raven or?
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On December 18 2011 16:07 Master FTS wrote:
This might have already been posted in this thread, but i don't feel like digging through 93 pages of material. My question is how do you deal with blink stalker with obs or warp prism with fourgate when you gasless FE? Seems without the bunker my marine heavy army is just useless...
I watched forGG defend this on XNC, he went 1 rax into 4 and pressured, then lost all his marines (not apart of his plan) then of course bunkered his natural, the guy warp prism'd into his main and he just pulled scvs. I think thats all you can do. Unless you are going 1/1/1 for a raven after the expand but its to gas heavy i thought.
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That triple orbital opening that mma used so many times in the final, has anyone managed to analyze it and come out with a bo and key points? It seems very solid and with that heavy eco he was able to survive after losing so much after the roach busts
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Hi, I have a few questions about hotkeys.
My hotkeys currently are:
1 - Starports
2 - Raxes
3 - Army - I just started using army hotkeys
4 - Factories
5 - CCs
Should i just put all of my production buildings on 2 and tab through them? And army on 3?
I also have a question about rallypoints, should i just rally units to my army or should i rally them to the area that i'm moving with my army when i'm attacking?
And also, what is the best way to add units to army hotkey?
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Blazinghand
United States25558 Posts
On December 18 2011 20:52 huehuehuehue wrote:
Hi, I have a few questions about hotkeys.
My hotkeys currently are:
1 - Starports
2 - Raxes
3 - Army - I just started using army hotkeys
4 - Factories
5 - CCs
Should i just put all of my production buildings on 2 and tab through them? And army on 3?
I also have a question about rallypoints, should i just rally units to my army or should i rally them to the area that i'm moving with my army when i'm attacking?
Some players split their production facilities across several hotkeys, and some do not. As a player who puts all of his production facilities on one hotkey, I feel the limitations of this setup from time to time. If you're comfortable with your prod facs sitting on several hotkeys, that's good.
However, I'd recommend making more room for army hotkeys. Often you'll want to control your army while simultaneously controlling a drop or some other small force. Other times you'll want to have a seperate hotkey for your tanks or ghosts or whatever has a different function.
As far as rally points go, You'll often want to rally not to your army but the front of your natural during a fight when there is worry of a counter attack, drop, or cutting-off of reinforcements-- you'll be moving your reinforcements in groups rather than 1 by 1. This depends on your opponent's style in the matchup. Always move in groups in TvZ.
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On December 18 2011 21:01 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2011 20:52 huehuehuehue wrote:
Hi, I have a few questions about hotkeys.
My hotkeys currently are:
1 - Starports
2 - Raxes
3 - Army - I just started using army hotkeys
4 - Factories
5 - CCs
Should i just put all of my production buildings on 2 and tab through them? And army on 3?
I also have a question about rallypoints, should i just rally units to my army or should i rally them to the area that i'm moving with my army when i'm attacking? Some players split their production facilities across several hotkeys, and some do not. As a player who puts all of his production facilities on one hotkey, I feel the limitations of this setup from time to time. If you're comfortable with your prod facs sitting on several hotkeys, that's good. However, I'd recommend making more room for army hotkeys. Often you'll want to control your army while simultaneously controlling a drop or some other small force. Other times you'll want to have a seperate hotkey for your tanks or ghosts or whatever has a different function. As far as rally points go, You'll often want to rally not to your army but the front of your natural during a fight when there is worry of a counter attack, drop, or cutting-off of reinforcements-- you'll be moving your reinforcements in groups rather than 1 by 1. This depends on your opponent's style in the matchup. Always move in groups in TvZ.
Thanks! I think that I'm going to put my factories and starports both on 1, and ghosts/whatever on 4.
Can you answer my question about adding units to the army hotkey?
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What is the best way to defend from DT drops when you are going 1 rax expand?
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On December 18 2011 21:32 oOOoOphidian wrote:
What is the best way to defend from DT drops when you are going 1 rax expand?
If he goes for 1base, you can definitively save at least 1 scan, and you should have your ebay up at 7ish minutes. The other option is an immortal push, but it's definitely scoutable.
If you've just 1scan you transfer everything to your main, throw down enough turrets to cover your mineral line + production facilities asap. You want to kill the DTs and if possible the warp prism. If you're unlucky, your second scan is quite far away and you've to protect your turrets (hug them with units). You should not have tech very fast against a 1 base protoss so I'd definitely recommand some kind of ghost follow up if the game continues (you suffer heavy damage but not a killing blow).
If you've two scans you can do the same or protect both your main and natural.
If he's on two base you should spot the warp prism with well palced buildings, throw down emergency turrets, pray that you've a scan, and get a raven asap (switch add ons for that). if you're confident in your stutter step micro, just go and kill him he'll have 0 aoe except archons, and probably charge for his lots if the map is wide. The most important point is to catch the warp prism and realize what's going on.
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On December 18 2011 21:32 oOOoOphidian wrote:
What is the best way to defend from DT drops when you are going 1 rax expand?
Your EB should be ready by the 7' mark if you suspect some kind of DT play or couldn't rule out that option; saving a scan would be wise too. DT drops hit a bit later, perhaps around 8' or 9' depending on the distance between your bases; at this time, I always have a turret near my natural (don't let this Turret unprotected, as DTs can make quick work of it), and I can simply go the natural with my SCVs while waiting for the scan if the Protoss drops my main. If you have a scan ready, then build a Turret in the mineral line of main (because you'll have to secure the Barracks which should be nearby); he'll likely send DTs to kill this Turret, so scan and clear DTs. Surround the building Turret with SCVs and your troops so that he can't kill it. Build another Turret in the former one's detection range to secure your production facilities; you may need to rebuild your add-ons as he will likely target them if he can't get your SCVs. If your Starport is already done, you could try to swap it quickly with a Lab Barracks and start producing a Raven so that you can move as soon as possible around the map without having to use scans for lonely DTs.
Protoss don't have much after this attack if you defend well, so pushing with your Raven should be a good deal. I faced this build one time (Master level) and made the mistake not to go after I cleared all DTs without much damage (7 SCVs and 3 Marines lost, one Lab destroyed), so I allowed the Protoss to come back in the game even if his expand was so late (he built his Nexus at the 9' mark, at the same time he was dropping his DTs in my main).
Edit—I can upload the replay if you're interested (my opponent was high Master).
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On December 18 2011 22:40 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2011 21:32 oOOoOphidian wrote:
What is the best way to defend from DT drops when you are going 1 rax expand? Your EB should be ready by the 7' mark if you suspect some kind of DT play or couldn't rule out that option; saving a scan would be wise too. DT drops hit a bit later, perhaps around 8' or 9' depending on the distance between your bases; at this time, I always have a turret near my natural (don't let this Turret unprotected, as DTs can make quick work of it), and I can simply go the natural with my SCVs while waiting for the scan if the Protoss drops my main. If you have a scan ready, then build a Turret in the mineral line of main (because you'll have to secure the Barracks which should be nearby); he'll likely send DTs to kill this Turret, so scan and clear DTs. Surround the building Turret with SCVs and your troops so that he can't kill it. Build another Turret in the former one's detection range to secure your production facilities; you may need to rebuild your add-ons as he will likely target them if he can't get your SCVs. If your Starport is already done, you could try to swap it quickly with a Lab Barracks and start producing a Raven so that you can move as soon as possible around the map without having to use scans for lonely DTs. Protoss don't have much after this attack if you defend well, so pushing with your Raven should be a good deal. I faced this build one time (Master level) and made the mistake not to go after I cleared all DTs without much damage (7 SCVs and 3 Marines lost, one Lab destroyed), so I allowed the Protoss to come back in the game even if his expand was so late (he built his Nexus at the 9' mark, at the same time he was dropping his DTs in my main). Edit—I can upload the replay if you're interested (my opponent was high Master).
Thanks, a replay would be helpful. I've faced this build before with 2 rax expands and it was easier to hold due to having more units, but when I 1 rax expand it seems I am having trouble getting enough units to actually kill the ~3 DTs they drop even if I have a scan ready. Not sure what the safest way to produce units is after a 1 rax FE to defend void ray all-ins and things like this.
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I've been reading through these past few posts and it seems that people have been struggling in some matchups and some situations which i find rather ok to deal with.
TvP - DTs
I go 2 rax in almost all my TvP games and i start putting some pressure on early with said raxes while securing my expo. Now the thing is, i don't have a build order for this (i don't actually have ANY build orders) but i time my stuff based on upgrades, rough estimates on resource distribution and so on. This is also the best way in my view (just a random tip here  ). So, i move out, see what he is doing, test the waters a little bit to gain time to get my expo up. As it goes up i will build an EB and another rax before grabbing my second gas. This should give me plenty of space to work around it. If for some reason he goes for air, you can grab turrets really soon (but chances are that you could also potentially just kill him with the 2 rax if he skips to many gateway units) and you can also get detection as well as +1 attack for your bio.
The timing for it is ... i think around 7 ish :D i don't know, i just know that if i'm pressuring, i'm building units, supply and scvs and i'll get some leftover money with which i grab the 3rd rax and the EB (its usually before 50 pop).
The EB will give you a great help vs 2 strategies and the quick +1 will get done around the time your first 2 medvacs will pop out considering that you will be starting your 2nd gas as soon as you have the money for it AFTER building the 3rd rax and the EB. This wil make both your drops or any form of pressure mass up. Also, if you see you can get away with it, grab the 3rd gas, keep pumping units and get the 2nd EB as well as an armory to start +2/+1. As i said it before, the main key is the 2rax since people don't know how to read the amount of units from their opponent. If you see an early second gas (you should be able to scout that before the stalker comes out anyway) and if you see him mining from it yet the sentry count is low (1/2) then you can expect tech. That's where the rest of the gas was dumped. Same for a higher number of zealots instead of stalker/sentry. This should really clear it up. Also by pressuring you might get the chance to see the amount of units he warps in. As such, if you pressure and manage to get some kills here and there look for the warp ins. If you see 2 units, it might be very well be a 2gate robo, if you see 3 units yet you hhaven't seen an expo yet, it might just very well be dts.
TvZ
I've seen and played against the quick upgrade style yet lately i've been playing around a lot with pure marine forces and quick upgrades. Opponents with even up to 15-20 mutas couldn't harass because that would weaken their main force while the excess gas can be dumped into a couple of thors as well as quick upgrades. 3-3rines with some medivac support will simply shred things. Note that, despite me going mass marines, the trick is aggression like a boss... you will be staying on 2 gases for a very long time and a single moment of pause in the attacks or a failed drop will cost you the game. This is by no means a forgiving style. Miss-micro/poor control/multitasking will also end up killing you seriously quickly.
Note that going this, means you will kick it off with a 2rax (which, if well controlled can do damage even in cross map positions or give you massive amounts of damage or even a win if its close air). It can fend of a huge variety of attacks and early pushes but the main idea is that you will always want to keep your army split up in as many places as you can control. I've been working with it lately and despite my poor macro at times and still my attempts at finding the right number of rax/gas timings and expo timings, if you make a single mistake you will die. However, if you don't well... you can grab wins even against muta/ling/bane or festor/ultra/ling... the key is to deny expansions and constantly keep his baneling numbers low.
There is also a transition out of it, but you must make sure that you will not give up either map control or aggression while doing it. You will start adding your gases and add factories as well as mass mech upgrades . Your marines will ensure that you can safely push out, take expos and all that. But again, one mistake and you are dead.
This is mainly because European Zergs in particular have gotten hella greedy lately. As injects aren't missed as often and as players learn timings better and better, there is the issue of them grabbing very very quick 3rds or 4th bases. At this point, any stop in aggression will lose you the game. In order to prevent that from happening you need to force your opponents. By continuously massing marines you will force banes early on (festors later on) and thus reduce the gas income for mutas. Micromanagement is the key and as i said, i'm still trying to get a hang of it, yet if you pull it off correctly you will see your TvZ win% sky rocket.
Today I lost a game against a master zerg with roughyl 1200 points and that within like 50 games... His win% is really huge (almost 66%) and even so i had the game for a good portion of it, yet that made me slack off and eventually lost me the game after 25 mins of non-stop marine/medvac production  There were no tanks made, 2 bunkers and that's basically it. If i were to play more games (and i just started playing again basically..) then i think i should be able to take on even gm zergs with mass marines, but it all depends on timings and aggression.
Another small tip in this huge ass post - learn scouting patterns based on position. This can give you early overlord kills and thus mess with his economy. Even your first marine can get a kill off if you know where to look. Even if the 2 rax fails, don't suicide all your rines since they can get you map control, force more lings out, maybe even spines while at the same time giv eyou the chance to snipe ovies = again, map control is the key!
check out my channel for some of these games... i will be posting more up today and every day basically
http://www.youtube.com/user/pSYoniK?feature=mhee
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On December 18 2011 23:02 oOOoOphidian wrote:
Thanks, a replay would be helpful. I've faced this build before with 2 rax expands and it was easier to hold due to having more units, but when I 1 rax expand it seems I am having trouble getting enough units to actually kill the ~3 DTs they drop even if I have a scan ready. Not sure what the safest way to produce units is after a 1 rax FE to defend void ray all-ins and things like this.
You should have enough Marines to deal with the DTs, whether you go +2 or +3 rax after your expand (I'm talking about gasless 1 rax FE, by the way). For the replay:
http://drop.sc/75829
I went +3 rax after expand in the replay, and since I scouted dual gas at the beginning and no expand after a while, I delayed my Starport tech and built a lot of Marines. Hilariously enough, my scan revealed a Chronoboost on a hidden build; I correctly assumed it was a Robo, but had no clue he was going DTs along with it. I had a Turret near my natural with a full bunker nearby, so DTs were not allowed to threaten my natural, and this allowed me to concentrate on defending the main. Messed up my second scan, but did not lose much. I had a clear push window after this, but since I had no Starport yet I did not feel like going out without a Raven... Should have tried anyway, since my passivity allowed him to go double Robo Colossi as a follow-up (I was expecting Archons, so I went Ghost Academy).
About defending Void Ray all-in with gasless 1 rax FE, I have this one (opponent was midMaster at the time we played, I think): http://drop.sc/53574 (messed up with no Turrets in my mineral line and not pulling SCVs for the main fight).
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On December 18 2011 20:52 huehuehuehue wrote:
And also, what is the best way to add units to army hotkey?
You can create a unit hotkey by clicking ctrl+#
You can add units and buildings to an existing hotkey using shift+#
Hope this helps
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that was my first post btw as im new to the forum...im a diamond level terran looking to improve on his game
thanks guys
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Hey there,
I recently had a game against a Protoss opponent. I lost the game after only the first large engagement due to not being able to produce as quickly. At the time of the battle, I felt as though I had a better economy and a larger army.
I would appreciate if someone would take the time and watch the replay and explain to me how to properly engage a Protoss army.
http://drop.sc/75850
Things I feel as though I did wrong in the game:
Awful concave in the big fight, got ghosts too late.
Did not drop harass or pressure
If someone has any other faults in my game play they witness after watching the replay, I would appreciate if you would let me know.
Thanks in advance
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Pointers for TvZ Mech?
Like, dangerous timings, composition, maps, etc?
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EPT
