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The Terran Help Me Thread - Page 398

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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions.
Galaxy345
Profile Joined February 2012
Luxembourg28 Posts
November 13 2012 12:20 GMT
#7941
Hi just 2 small questions in TvZ:
When do you move your SCV to the Side of your Base on maps with close air to check for the Overlord so you can almost always check the right base first (if he sends his initial Overlord to you).

The other one is about scouting the third.
I almost always hide my SCV somewhere to check his third after sseeing his gas (or no gas) timing.
When is the time i should scout if he goes Gas and when if he goes gasless (Is there even an all in he can do if he is gasless except taking gas after my scout is out to mindgame me.

I often scout no third at like 7 minutes and i begin to prepare for an all in, which i think is too early since most of the time the attack never comes and im sitting there with my useless Bunkers ^^

Im in Plat playing Diamonds most of the time, so it could also be my oponnents messing up their 3rd timings
joopajoo
Profile Joined September 2011
Finland67 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-13 20:21:56
November 13 2012 13:42 GMT
#7942
Hey guys, high dia terran here and i'm having huge problems with my TvZ.. Here's my latest game: http://drop.sc/275093 I fucked up upgrades pretty bad and third was really late and not properly saturated and i guess i should have retreated with my first initial push but i thought it would have put me way too much behind. I play both styles(bio/mech) so i'm open for any suggestions.

EDIT: Just to clarify, i feel like i'm doing something very wrong in the matchup and feel very lost in it. Can someone do a (i know it's kind of asking for a lot but..) deep analysis on what i should improve on. I feel very confident in my mechanics but i feel like i have no idea what actually i should do in the MU in order to secure a win. And i'm pretty BM at the end but everyone gets frustrated every now and then, right? Right...?
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-13 16:47:19
November 13 2012 16:43 GMT
#7943
On November 13 2012 11:06 Sotark wrote:
Hey bros.

High diamond Terran player here, recently switched from zerg. My question is, nowadays 1rax FE is standard. So, in the TvZ MU when you go reactor hellion, banshee into bio (Love the shit out of that style and having great success with it. ) - Do you go one rax FE, drop both gases and tech to factory? or do you drop a gas before you expo?

Both exist, though dual gas after expand is much more common. Bomber sometimes uses 15 gas before expand, and ThorZaIN also used this kind of opening in the past. The opening Bomber uses is something like 15 gas → Reactor on Barracks with first 50 gas → Factory with 100 next → switch Barracks and Factory once the latter is complete.

On November 13 2012 21:08 TAAF wrote:
I started to move my bunker from my natural to my third with my 4 marines from the start in it.

I also do this. Don't forget to sacrifice them by lategame, though, as 0/0 Marines are horrible anyway against 3-3 Zerglings raids.

On November 13 2012 21:20 Galaxy345 wrote:
Hi just 2 small questions in TvZ:
When do you move your SCV to the Side of your Base on maps with close air to check for the Overlord so you can almost always check the right base first (if he sends his initial Overlord to you).

On Shakuras I rally my 12th SCV at the ledge, so ~1'50 to check if an Overlord is there. On Antiga it's something like shortly before the 2' mark but it doesn't matter since you can't know which way he'll take with his first Overlord. Same on Entombed Valley (maybe ~2'45?).
Effay
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States153 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-13 17:12:50
November 13 2012 17:11 GMT
#7944
[QUOTE]On November 14 2012 01:43 TheDwf wrote:
[QUOTE]On November 13 2012 11:06 Sotark wrote:
Hey bros.

High diamond Terran player here, recently switched from zerg. My question is, nowadays 1rax FE is standard. So, in the TvZ MU when you go reactor hellion, banshee into bio (Love the shit out of that style and having great success with it. ) - Do you go one rax FE, drop both gases and tech to factory? or do you drop a gas before you expo?[/QUOTE]
Both exist, though dual gas after expand is much more common. Bomber sometimes uses 15 gas before expand, and ThorZaIN also used this kind of opening in the past. The opening Bomber uses is something like 15 gas → Reactor on Barracks with first 50 gas → Factory with 100 next → switch Barracks and Factory once the latter is complete.[/QUOTE}]


Would you happen to know what the rest of the BO is for Bomber's build (the ones he did at Lonestar Clash 2)?
Obsession: The weak minded's name for dedication
Emporium
Profile Joined May 2012
England162 Posts
November 13 2012 17:48 GMT
#7945
Hey all,

Does anyone have a good BO for the open Liquid SEA did versus the zzerg, I watched the replay that DAY9 went over, but would obviously love to nail it down a little bit more.

Also any comments on variations on it that people have observed is also cool.

I do like the hellion/tank/viking/banshee composition and i think has loads of potential, so just wondered what others thought of it.

Plat terran here.
Remember your mortality.
eurTsItniH
Profile Joined January 2012
887 Posts
November 13 2012 20:54 GMT
#7946
Hello,

Which maps should I veto on the ladder?
GARcher
Profile Joined October 2012
Canada294 Posts
November 13 2012 21:20 GMT
#7947
On November 14 2012 05:54 eurTsItniH wrote:
Hello,

Which maps should I veto on the ladder?


Cloud Kingdom
Antiga

What I can think of at the moment.
ZvZ is like a shitty apartment: Roaches and Fungal Growth everywhere.
Marathi
Profile Joined July 2011
298 Posts
November 13 2012 23:18 GMT
#7948
What could I have done better vs this 3gate robo? It was really dreadful, like one of the weakest 3gate robo's I've faced on ladder recently and I face it probably 75% of TvPs, but I still couldn't hold.

I didn't have all my units in bunkers when he pushed but I moved them in quite quickly, could've probably pulled some more SCVs to help repair and act as meat shields, but apart from that I don't know what else to do.

http://drop.sc/275265
eSports tees designed by me - http://tinyurl.com/bqmexd9
Jazzman88
Profile Joined January 2012
Canada2228 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-13 23:34:40
November 13 2012 23:30 GMT
#7949
[QUOTE]On November 14 2012 02:11 Effay wrote:
[QUOTE]On November 14 2012 01:43 TheDwf wrote:
[QUOTE]On November 13 2012 11:06 Sotark wrote:
Hey bros.

High diamond Terran player here, recently switched from zerg. My question is, nowadays 1rax FE is standard. So, in the TvZ MU when you go reactor hellion, banshee into bio (Love the shit out of that style and having great success with it. ) - Do you go one rax FE, drop both gases and tech to factory? or do you drop a gas before you expo?[/QUOTE]
Both exist, though dual gas after expand is much more common. Bomber sometimes uses 15 gas before expand, and ThorZaIN also used this kind of opening in the past. The opening Bomber uses is something like 15 gas → Reactor on Barracks with first 50 gas → Factory with 100 next → switch Barracks and Factory once the latter is complete.[/QUOTE}]


Would you happen to know what the rest of the BO is for Bomber's build (the ones he did at Lonestar Clash 2)?[/QUOTE]

The exact build order is not as important as the very quick upgrades and third base, aiming for a massed bio/tank 2-2 slow push.

Here's a Daily on it: [url=http://day9.tv/d/Day9/day9-daily-395-terran-week-bomberss-tvz/]http://day9.tv/d/Day9/day9-daily-395-terran-week-bomberss-tvz/[/url]

*Edit: can someone confirm why my BBC codes aren't actually appearing properly? The quote/URL/spoiler tags aren't working like they usually do.
bwodie
Profile Joined June 2011
Australia41 Posts
November 13 2012 23:40 GMT
#7950
On November 14 2012 08:30 Jazzman88 wrote:

The exact build order is not as important as the very quick upgrades and third base, aiming for a massed bio/tank 2-2 slow push.

Here's a Daily on it: http://day9.tv/d/Day9/day9-daily-395-terran-week-bomberss-tvz/

*Edit: can someone confirm why my BBC codes aren't actually appearing properly? The quote/URL/spoiler tags aren't working like they usually do.


I don't beleive this is the build they are talking about. The turtle 3 base style is much older.
lannisport
Profile Joined February 2012
878 Posts
November 14 2012 05:32 GMT
#7951
This is a bit of a general question, but can anyone recommend me some code A matches to learn late game TvZ from? I'm switching from zerg to terran and I'd just like to see how good players deal with mass broodlords and 15+ infestors. I've seen some great TvZ games in code S (i.e. Ryung) but the terrans never seem to think it a good idea to face this late game zerg death ball directly (Even a lot of the mech tvz's i've seen go for a push before BLs). Is there an army that can beat it? (What kind of a composition should I aim for if I start with marine tank vs starting out with mech) What is the best way to control the terran army in the big engagements? (Linking to code A matches or otherwise for examples would be great).

GARcher
Profile Joined October 2012
Canada294 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-14 07:53:24
November 14 2012 07:50 GMT
#7952
On November 14 2012 14:32 lannisport wrote:
This is a bit of a general question, but can anyone recommend me some code A matches to learn late game TvZ from? I'm switching from zerg to terran and I'd just like to see how good players deal with mass broodlords and 15+ infestors. I've seen some great TvZ games in code S (i.e. Ryung) but the terrans never seem to think it a good idea to face this late game zerg death ball directly (Even a lot of the mech tvz's i've seen go for a push before BLs). Is there an army that can beat it? (What kind of a composition should I aim for if I start with marine tank vs starting out with mech) What is the best way to control the terran army in the big engagements? (Linking to code A matches or otherwise for examples would be great).



You just can't win as a Terran by the time that army hits if you have equal economy. Even if you manage to clean it up, Zerg just techswitches. There's a reason we call them GGlords.

Dunno about code A but Code S Taeja vs Leenock GSL games are pretty good examples of lategame TvZ.

If you really want to learn TvZ, watch MVP's games.
ZvZ is like a shitty apartment: Roaches and Fungal Growth everywhere.
Kamwah
Profile Joined February 2012
United Kingdom724 Posts
November 14 2012 09:01 GMT
#7953
On November 14 2012 16:50 GARcher wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 14 2012 14:32 lannisport wrote:
This is a bit of a general question, but can anyone recommend me some code A matches to learn late game TvZ from? I'm switching from zerg to terran and I'd just like to see how good players deal with mass broodlords and 15+ infestors. I've seen some great TvZ games in code S (i.e. Ryung) but the terrans never seem to think it a good idea to face this late game zerg death ball directly (Even a lot of the mech tvz's i've seen go for a push before BLs). Is there an army that can beat it? (What kind of a composition should I aim for if I start with marine tank vs starting out with mech) What is the best way to control the terran army in the big engagements? (Linking to code A matches or otherwise for examples would be great).



You just can't win as a Terran by the time that army hits if you have equal economy. Even if you manage to clean it up, Zerg just techswitches. There's a reason we call them GGlords.

Dunno about code A but Code S Taeja vs Leenock GSL games are pretty good examples of lategame TvZ.

If you really want to learn TvZ, watch MVP's games.


Don't listen to all the crap people spew in this thread and forums about how BL+Infestors being unbeatable. It is hard just as the pros say but its not impossible even without Ravens.

I'm not going to say anything more specific because I'm sure you've heard it all before. I'd suggest watching any TvZ from various Terrans because you learn a lot by watching.
Learn to count with CatsPajamas!
Creizai
Profile Joined November 2010
United States14 Posts
November 15 2012 03:22 GMT
#7954
As terran what is the best way to scout after you see an early 2nd gas. To know how to prepare for these builds
4 Gate <- lose to $$ spend on turrets for possible dt
3gate1robo Blink Stalker < Lose to defense up front / turret for dt $$.
DT < - Usually holds off
Proxy starport <- Usually finds

As you can see I have about 50/50 chance of winning. Its just when I prepare for DT/Voidray play it leaves me at almost an autolose for 4gate or blinkstalker play.

Thanks!
GARcher
Profile Joined October 2012
Canada294 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-15 06:13:27
November 15 2012 06:00 GMT
#7955
On November 15 2012 12:22 Creizai wrote:
As terran what is the best way to scout after you see an early 2nd gas. To know how to prepare for these builds
4 Gate <- lose to $$ spend on turrets for possible dt
3gate1robo Blink Stalker < Lose to defense up front / turret for dt $$.
DT < - Usually holds off
Proxy starport <- Usually finds

As you can see I have about 50/50 chance of winning. Its just when I prepare for DT/Voidray play it leaves me at almost an autolose for 4gate or blinkstalker play.

Thanks!


Watch this series of videos


He talks about counting gas and holding all ins
ZvZ is like a shitty apartment: Roaches and Fungal Growth everywhere.
highmastdon
Profile Joined November 2012
Netherlands1 Post
November 15 2012 09:45 GMT
#7956
(Yet, I'm posting here, because I cannot make a thread myself unless I wait 3 days. I'd be nice if some admin could move this to a separate thread)

Hi, Sorry to interrupt a useful thread in an offtopic way but I'd like to inform you guys, about a recent project I've been working on. It's not very complicated or time spending, and yes, it might have some bugs to be fixed, but as soon as I get more response from you (the users) I'll be happy to invest a little more time to complete it.

What is it...? :O -----Screenshots below-----

I've been using the Talking Build Order app for iPhone, but it isn't patched since who-knows-when, so I thought, lets make the ultimate, not failing to patches with timing errors, text-to-speech build order commander.

So this is wat came out:

Here is the download (you need Java Runtime Edition 7 or higher and this is the source in case you wouldn't trust me

There are some bugs, but if you find any improvements or enhancements (and of course, if you feel like helping me ), you can fill them out here.

I hope you'll like it guys

PS It's made with use of the build order calculator from Jasper A. Visser.

Another screenshot, wasn't about to ruin the post

Screenshots:
[image loading]

User was banned for this post.
W/e
Waio
Profile Joined September 2010
Chile82 Posts
November 15 2012 19:18 GMT
#7957
Back when I was a protoss I learnt somewhere that 1 base can support constant production out of 3 gates and a robo, or 4 gates.

I was wondering if there are such numbers for terran production buildings (ie: 2fact2port, with one tech lab and a reactor each, can run on 1 base)

that way I can aproximate the optimum number of production buildings for, say, 3 bases.
GARcher
Profile Joined October 2012
Canada294 Posts
November 16 2012 00:34 GMT
#7958
On November 16 2012 04:18 Waio wrote:
Back when I was a protoss I learnt somewhere that 1 base can support constant production out of 3 gates and a robo, or 4 gates.

I was wondering if there are such numbers for terran production buildings (ie: 2fact2port, with one tech lab and a reactor each, can run on 1 base)

that way I can aproximate the optimum number of production buildings for, say, 3 bases.


Generally for bio you want to have around 3 raxes per base. Add a bajillion more of them if you are maxed and have money floating.
For mech 1-2 factories per base and 1 starport per base (Assuming 2 gases taken) depending on your supply and whether or not you have an orbital farm. The ideal would be around 5 factories and 4 starports off 4 base.
ZvZ is like a shitty apartment: Roaches and Fungal Growth everywhere.
iAmJeffReY
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4262 Posts
November 16 2012 00:56 GMT
#7959
On November 16 2012 04:18 Waio wrote:
Back when I was a protoss I learnt somewhere that 1 base can support constant production out of 3 gates and a robo, or 4 gates.

I was wondering if there are such numbers for terran production buildings (ie: 2fact2port, with one tech lab and a reactor each, can run on 1 base)

that way I can aproximate the optimum number of production buildings for, say, 3 bases.

I go for 3 rax 2 fac 1 port off 2 base, 5 rax 1 fac 1 port off 2 base, 7 rax 2 fac 1 port off 3, 5 rax 3 fac 1 port off 3 base, etc. Depending on the match up.

It's usually 3 rax 1 base, 5 on 2, 8-9 on 3, and then from there you just add on as you approach max or float minerals. For TvZ/TvT I like to do 1 fac per base, to keep up my tank production and keep gas low.
Unbiased biased terran abuser Jeffrey. Sorry for the rage, friend!
sths
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Australia192 Posts
November 16 2012 06:11 GMT
#7960
hi all. I'd appreciate someone take look at my tvz. Mainly i have no idea what to do against zergs late game mass infestor corrupter broodlord switch into ultra combo.

http://drop.sc/276158

Macro and micro is subpar i know but then i'm only diamond. It just seems he can bleed units but i can't really engage his army and am forced to just rely on drops and small groups to snipe hatch. Pretty lost in the matchup. Would appreciate any helps thanks.
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