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man i'm really at a loss at what to do
http://drop.sc/274363
any ideas?
the most glaring thing i saw is that i fucked up my placement of my CC @ my 3rd after he busted it, and was blocked at like 113 supply for way too long but i felt like i was spread pretty well or something, given like 5-10 more seconds with my last batch of reinforcements in i maybe? would've held?
i dunno, maybe i should start putting bunkers and shit up front
ultras just bust me so well
i was preparing for the broodlord transition which i think if i handled the ultras, i would've been ahead? i just don't know how i fucked up the engagement that badly. i think i need thors or something after like 6-8 tanks
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On November 11 2012 19:49 loleq wrote:Oh by the way, can anyone tell me what I had done wrong? http://drop.sc/274327Please ignore my BM at the end...I just got pissed off, he recovered from an all-in like it was nothing. Should I had killed his third expansion? Should I had gone mech?
I mean I can pick out a lot of things where you could improve but the reason you lost this match was the mentality you had in response to the protoss "contain". When someone does a from of aggression you do have to deviate from your normal build to deal with the form of aggression which this obviously will delay tech and other timings that are crucial to your build. What you don't want is to completely Ditch your build all together. By doing this you forgot combat shield your medivac timings was soooo off that you didnt get them until the 20 min mark which is really really bad. Now there are other things you can work on such as macro round timings. Which are essential mechanics you are going to need to get out of GOld which i'm assuming you are from the rep....
If you ever have a protoss do that again think about it like this " I still want to do my build, I've scouted protoss all he has is 1 Forge which means all he can make is cannons.... i'll expand in my base and break contain and play my normal game" Or after scouting that you could go to break the contain by going faster gas putting out 1-2 maur with a couple marines pull 2 scvs and rape that cannon contain ez pz and push to his base making him build cannons. Which you also have to realize that as many cannons as he put up there is no way he could have gateway. Every cannon is the cost of a gateway and he put up 4 which means he is really behind so if you played straightforward and kept your timings you would be really far ahead.
So the Main thing to take out of this by dealing with aggression of this nature or "contain" he is delayed with his tech so you don't have to overreact so as long as you deal with the aggression efficiently then get back to your normal build you will more times then not be ahead and for god sakes build some meds man!!!!!
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On November 11 2012 20:13 Bazy wrote:I also have a replay to analysis http://drop.sc/274336could you please tell me what I did wrong here apart from loosing my army in a stupid way during those doom drops? I thought I was ahead after that failed 6 gate, he had no tech
It looks like you are High plat / Low diamond area from the rep. Honestly you are missing one of the key components of mechanics that really really screwed you on this game. Your bases never at one point ever ever became saturated. i mean going from med to late game you want to get about 57-62 workers then start stock piling orbitals and start ditching workers for army supply you maxed out at 50 workers on 3 bases.... thats 16 workers a base 6 workers go to gas and you have 10 workers on minerals per base thats not including workers that build subtract approx 3-4 for that and you have mules that are BARELY keeping your production going which means you have no money to expand which is exactly the problem you hit.
Another thing you wanna focus on is playing more to your opponent past the 10-12 min mark in TVP. You went maur heavy like really really really Maur heavy which means all he has to do is make chargelot archon and A move and you are going to be struggling with Microing hopefully not misclicking into a murder hole the every time you engage. Also Splitting to minimize the effects of Colo splash is very very effective in engaging a Colo army... Otherwise your Drops were good though you should have put him in a Split situation more and try to save your drops... HItting his 3rd with about 6 marines during that push would have put that game in your favor even in the "Macro Freeze" you put yourself in....
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Thanks IMGrandmaster...I know I suck, but I didn't know I was that bad. I guess I'll train harder
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On November 11 2012 22:53 Chaggi wrote:man i'm really at a loss at what to do http://drop.sc/274363any ideas? the most glaring thing i saw is that i fucked up my placement of my CC @ my 3rd after he busted it, and was blocked at like 113 supply for way too long but i felt like i was spread pretty well or something, given like 5-10 more seconds with my last batch of reinforcements in i maybe? would've held? i dunno, maybe i should start putting bunkers and shit up front ultras just bust me so well i was preparing for the broodlord transition which i think if i handled the ultras, i would've been ahead? i just don't know how i fucked up the engagement that badly. i think i need thors or something after like 6-8 tanks
THors do help ALOT against Ultras though I can tell from this rep you are atleast High Diamond / POssibly masters. your infrastructure was ok... I mean honestly 5 rax isnt 3 Factory is good but in my opinion it isnt going to get you very far in tvz but you did get your 3rd sacked.... Think about it this way though if you had more rax up and had more units out you would have defended your 3rd sufficiently enough that the drop you did would have put you ahead as opposed to just trying to pull even with him. Also after you cleaned up his army and dropped you really need to make those drops mean something. Usually when i double drop take a couple marines to the middle and start poaching some creep tumors so you can do that scary 14 min push that is sooo necessary before BLord timing hits. Also the lack of medivacs in your final engagement definitely hurt you ALOT those fungals turn into instadeathungals when you dont have the necessary medivacs to keep your units alive....
Also keep a close watch on your worker count it was exceedingly high at your last push making it considerably weaker about 20 supply weaker which iS HUGE in Tvz. when it comes to Ultra infestor play one thing I had to learn the hard way is once you have your units in place DON"T A move into his army it clumps you making it ezier for his infestors to pick good fungals.... let his ultras come to your maurader comp and Focus fire Ultras as much as possible.... I think with those 2 things it will make your engagements 100xs more effective vses ultra infestor play....
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On November 11 2012 23:55 loleq wrote:
Thanks IMGrandmaster...I know I suck, but I didn't know I was that bad. I guess I'll train harder
I wouldn't say you suck we all need improvement its all about learning how to improve  . If you need advice feel free to PM me ! always happy to help!
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hey buddies
I'd like to ask about the third we take as a mech player. Should we make it OC or PF ? And what is the better way to defend the third early ?
Thanks
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On November 12 2012 02:10 foxj wrote:
hey buddies
I'd like to ask about the third we take as a mech player. Should we make it OC or PF ? And what is the better way to defend the third early ?
Thanks
IN my experience PF is almost a must past your Nat when meching. I mean Every base you take past that. Not to say not to take OCs after your nat but in your bases you want a PF in every expansion after that. What i've done especially vs Zerg is build a PF and as I get past 1k minerals I immediately start CCs around the PF to protect it against Ling runbys and Bane busts and make those OCs then i start ditching workers. Again though thats Late game. That PF is just extremely important as it gives you ALOT of utility vses a very power Roach PUsh that usually comes in the 11-13 mins when you mech.
To help defend your third early would be the PF and also utilizing Banshees in your mech assortment helps a TON especially vses a Roach heavy army.....
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On November 12 2012 00:37 IMGrandmasterFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2012 23:55 loleq wrote:
Thanks IMGrandmaster...I know I suck, but I didn't know I was that bad. I guess I'll train harder I wouldn't say you suck we all need improvement its all about learning how to improve . If you need advice feel free to PM me ! always happy to help!
No. Most maps can be defended by tanks and turrets and mobile hellions and can be an OC. Certain maps with unsafe thirds must be OC. Anything after 3rd, should be a PF. Then you flood OCs in non expo bases.
Abuse the fact you probably got an early 3rd OC with mech, and use tanks, turrets, and sensor towers to zone out units.
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On November 12 2012 02:51 iAmJeffReY wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 00:37 IMGrandmasterFTW wrote:On November 11 2012 23:55 loleq wrote:
Thanks IMGrandmaster...I know I suck, but I didn't know I was that bad. I guess I'll train harder I wouldn't say you suck we all need improvement its all about learning how to improve . If you need advice feel free to PM me ! always happy to help! No. Most maps can be defended by tanks and turrets and mobile hellions and can be an OC. Certain maps with unsafe thirds must be OC. Anything after 3rd, should be a PF. Then you flood OCs in non expo bases. Abuse the fact you probably got an early 3rd OC with mech, and use tanks, turrets, and sensor towers to zone out units.
Yes your third has to be an OC in TvZ, but still you need PFs later on to deal with Roaches; otherwise Zerg simply counters your pre-Hive timing (leaving 2 or 3 Tanks behind is too much if he chooses to engage you, and not enough if he chooses to commit to his counter). For example, on a map like CK I feel you have to add one PF at the choke near your natural and one near your third.
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I have a question regarding when to take gases while 1 rax fe'ing.
For a while i've been going 1 rax cc and getting my supply after my cc and before my 2x refinerys. I've been trying to go rax - cc - 2x refinerys - supply, but it doesn't look efficient.
Do you make scv's to 16/19 supply or stop @ 15/19 supply?
Basically i'm just looking for a basic build order to go 2x refinerys before supply, without cutting workers for a long period.
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How do I stop late game dt harass. When late game come they just warp in 4 dts and rally them to each of my expansions. This causes so much multitasking from the me its insane. And I can't have a bunker at each expansion because I need the marines for my army, late game TvP is hard enough as it is. Often I just die because my army get out of position and they just roll me.
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On November 12 2012 06:09 RMonkeyF wrote:
I have a question regarding when to take gases while 1 rax fe'ing.
For a while i've been going 1 rax cc and getting my supply after my cc and before my 2x refinerys. I've been trying to go rax - cc - 2x refinerys - supply, but it doesn't look efficient.
Do you make scv's to 16/19 supply or stop @ 15/19 supply?
Basically i'm just looking for a basic build order to go 2x refinerys before supply, without cutting workers for a long period.
I assume this is TvZ, then it's
15/19 OC
16/19 CC
17/19 Supply
Then take refineries when affordable while building constant scvs and marines.
There's no reason to get the refineries before supply, it's just inefficient.
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On November 12 2012 06:45 BrandFilt wrote:
How do I stop late game dt harass. When late game come they just warp in 4 dts and rally them to each of my expansions. This causes so much multitasking from the me its insane. And I can't have a bunker at each expansion because I need the marines for my army, late game TvP is hard enough as it is. Often I just die because my army get out of position and they just roll me.
Well, whenever you enter lategame against Protoss you have to make sure than no DT can walk into your bases without being intercepted. This means walls (depends on map though, for instance you can't really wall your third on Ohana without major investments while 4 Depots are enough on Entombed Valley's third), Turret rings (with the upgrade range if you can afford it) to prevent War Prisms from entering your air space and Turrets at every entrance. No other way, otherwise you get dismantled.
On November 12 2012 06:50 BrandFilt wrote:
I assume this is TvZ, then it's
15/19 OC
16/19 CC
17/19 Supply
Then take refineries when affordable while building constant scvs and marines.
There's no reason to get the refineries before supply, it's just inefficient.
Yes there is. The few seconds you gain to have your first Hellions / Banshee out can be crucial against some Zerg pressure builds (early Roaches or mass Speedlings).
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Another match-up that holds me off: TvZ...
I play mech, going MVP's 2 fact build, but then comes broodlords and infestors...
What could I've done better?
http://drop.sc/274707
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Another match-up that holds me off: TvZ... I play mech, going MVP's 2 fact build, but then comes broodlords and infestors... What could I've done better? http://drop.sc/274707
Hello there, i'm only Diamond so take my advice with a little grain of salt
Early game
your blue flame Hellion build is strong because you surprise the Zerg with a ton off hellions all of a sudden. However, you were busy attacking queens and could have roasted a ton of drones instead.
Mid game
Your 3rd base is extremely late. You can safely put a 3rd base at the 3rd location at the 8:00 minute mark, especially if you scout his 3rd base (wich you did). Your 3rd base was mining at the start of 15:00 minutes!!
I'm going to quote dAppolo's video here and say that the strength of mech lies in that you have fast access to 6 gas geysers. This is the biggest mistake you made in this match in my opinion.
My personal preference is to make Thors sooner instead of tanks. this way you make a bit of a safety net vs Mutas even if you dont scout them. Thors and hellions are adequate versus smaller squads of Roaches.
Late game
Mostly a result of the midgame, but you never expanded further than 3 base until very very late. try to combine your attacks with taking bases(EX: your 20:00 minute push, you could have taken your 4th base during this attack)
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Could someone jot down the transition from Hellion/Banshee into bio for me? I know how to transition to Mech but I'm clueless on transitioning to bio with double upgrades.
I think it's usually 4/5rax with 2 ebays and obviously the third is already complete.
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Hey bros.
High diamond Terran player here, recently switched from zerg. My question is, nowadays 1rax FE is standard. So, in the TvZ MU when you go reactor hellion, banshee into bio (Love the shit out of that style and having great success with it. ) - Do you go one rax FE, drop both gases and tech to factory? or do you drop a gas before you expo?
Also, if anyone could PM Me the answer i'd certainly appreciate it, considering how busy I am and how active this thread is my question will get buried before I can see if it's been answered.
Thanks, Terran bros
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On November 12 2012 03:21 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 02:51 iAmJeffReY wrote:On November 12 2012 00:37 IMGrandmasterFTW wrote:On November 11 2012 23:55 loleq wrote:
Thanks IMGrandmaster...I know I suck, but I didn't know I was that bad. I guess I'll train harder I wouldn't say you suck we all need improvement its all about learning how to improve . If you need advice feel free to PM me ! always happy to help! No. Most maps can be defended by tanks and turrets and mobile hellions and can be an OC. Certain maps with unsafe thirds must be OC. Anything after 3rd, should be a PF. Then you flood OCs in non expo bases. Abuse the fact you probably got an early 3rd OC with mech, and use tanks, turrets, and sensor towers to zone out units. Yes your third has to be an OC in TvZ, but still you need PFs later on to deal with Roaches; otherwise Zerg simply counters your pre-Hive timing (leaving 2 or 3 Tanks behind is too much if he chooses to engage you, and not enough if he chooses to commit to his counter). For example, on a map like CK I feel you have to add one PF at the choke near your natural and one near your third.
I started to move my bunker from my natural to my third with my 4 marines from the start in it. I don't know if it's a good idea but it seems to do fine against lings and delay roaches for a good while. Or are those 4 marines not worth keeping on 3 base and should I just replace them with 2 hellions?
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Is Tvt now the only matchup that doesn't have the 'deathball' thing going on ? Since there are many small encounters across the map like drops and stuff ?
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EPT
