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Any other terrans been doing well with highly aggressive builds like 4 rax expand into 8 rax stim/cs vs zerg, marine/hellion 1/1/1 all in vs toss, and just going back to 1 base style play?
I got back into this highly aggressive style recently because I got tired of the passivity of builds that have become standard such as 1 rax fe and I've been having a lot of success with it on the ladder, it got me back into masters and I'm wondering what the other terrans opinions are on highly aggressive 1 base play styles that rely heavily on micro.
To me they seem to be the best way to play terran as it profits on terrans early to mid game strength whereas the longer the game goes on the weaker terran gets.
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On August 17 2012 12:21 Sovern wrote:
Any other terrans been doing well with highly aggressive builds like 4 rax expand into 8 rax stim/cs vs zerg, marine/hellion 1/1/1 all in vs toss, and just going back to 1 base style play?
I got back into this highly aggressive style recently because I got tired of the passivity of builds that have become standard such as 1 rax fe and I've been having a lot of success with it on the ladder, it got me back into masters and I'm wondering what the other terrans opinions are on highly aggressive 1 base play styles that rely heavily on micro.
To me they seem to be the best way to play terran as it profits on terrans early to mid game strength whereas the longer the game goes on the weaker terran gets.
I've been having alot of success just harass/turtle with Tank/Sky Terran vs P into BC/Ghost/Raven transition late game. Then again, it's mostly because the P players are not accustomed to seeing Sky Terran nor a T player that actually doesn't directly engage.
Against Z, there is no such option so I've been playing a very aggressive style off of a fast CC, usually a 10 minute push or so with Helion/Medivac/Stim Marines to force the Z to expend larvae instead of droning really hard. If I see alot of units I just pick up and leave.
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Does anyone know a CC first into a big push against Z at a good timing?
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On August 17 2012 13:01 SurroundSound wrote:
Does anyone know a CC first into a big push against Z at a good timing?
You can do what Bomber does; when he opens CC first he opens with a 3 rax timing into Stim or CS, and attacks the Z with a group of Marines early when the Z attempts to take his third. When this occurs, the Z either has to stop taking the 3rd or he has to react and expend larvae on alot of Lings early, which allows you free time to secure your natural and put up a 3rd OC to work towards midgame with an economic advantage because of mules.
Afterwards you proceed with standard 2/2 timings or 3/3 timings depending on what the Z player does.
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So I'm fairly new to Starcraft 2 and the hardest thing for me is knowing where I should be in terms of food/supply at the 5, 10, 15, 20 min marks..more just along the lines of what goals/milestones should I be hitting? For example:
- amount of production buildings
- number of Scvs
- number expansions
- how many food should I be at
I like to play with MMM builds...
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On August 17 2012 13:34 Flak wrote:
So I'm fairly new to Starcraft 2 and the hardest thing for me is knowing where I should be in terms of food/supply at the 5, 10, 15, 20 min marks..more just along the lines of what goals/milestones should I be hitting? For example:
- amount of production buildings
- number of Scvs
- number expansions
- how many food should I be at
I like to play with MMM builds...
Usually by 15 minutes you should be somewhere around maxed, if you are not trading armies and are not doing any fights in the game before then, and by 10 minutes you should have about 100 food..
The amount of production buildings, amount of scvs, expansions, and food you should be at is depending on what build you are doing. Like, most terrans and protosses would like to be at 100+ food at 10 minutes, but stephano's zvp has him maxed at the 10:00 to 11:00 min mark. It all depends on the build that you are using, that will tell you all the answers. If you see a pro do it first, you have some nice benchmarks, but keep in mind that they might have higher or lower food counts depending on if there were engagements or things that made them rise or lower in food. If you test the build a lot, you will find situations that you haven't seen using the build and will be able to then come up with the appropriate counter.
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i haven't played in many months due to school, but i want to start playing again. i want to watch some vods or replays for a few days.
which televised terrans are doing well these days in vP and vZ matchups?
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United States4883 Posts
On August 17 2012 13:34 Flak wrote:
So I'm fairly new to Starcraft 2 and the hardest thing for me is knowing where I should be in terms of food/supply at the 5, 10, 15, 20 min marks..more just along the lines of what goals/milestones should I be hitting? For example:
- amount of production buildings
- number of Scvs
- number expansions
- how many food should I be at
I like to play with MMM builds...
7:30 is the latest time for natural expansion
You should be getting a 3rd around 11:00
9:00 - 50 SCVs
11:00 - full 3-base worker saturation (~65 workers)
4-5 barracks on 2 bases, additional 3 on 3 bases (Total of 7-8)
Maxout should be around 15:00
4th base around 14:00-16:00 depending on how aggressive your midgame is
Hope that helps!
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On August 17 2012 20:00 klops wrote:
i haven't played in many months due to school, but i want to start playing again. i want to watch some vods or replays for a few days.
which televised terrans are doing well these days in vP and vZ matchups?
Taeja and Gumiho.
Although it's not necessarily their strategies that make them successful. They have some of the best multi tasking and decision making in the MU out there.
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On August 17 2012 20:47 SC2John wrote:
7:30 is the latest time for natural expansion
You should be getting a 3rd around 11:00
9:00 - 50 SCVs
11:00 - full 3-base worker saturation (~65 workers)
[...]
Isn't 50 SCVs at 9:00 a bit high, especially if you take your natural somewhat late? Filtersc's Bronze to Master's Benchmarks aim for at least 50 SCVs at 10:00 and that's with 1 Rax FE. Unless you drop a third CC in somewhere in your base really early I don't see how you can get 50 SCVs at 9:00. Seems difficult, maybe with CC first.
Let's do some Math 
Assuming constant SCV production for 9 minutes except when you upgrade to Orbital:
1 CC: 6 SCVs at the start, SCV build time is 17s OC upgrade time is 35s:
6 + ( ( 9 * 60 - 35 ) / 17 ) = 35
2nd CC starts at 3:45 (1 Rax FE): CC + OC is 135s:
35 + ( ( 6 * 60 + 15 - 135 ) / 17 ) = 49
Numbers are floored, we only count SCVs which have finished building.
More than I expected, but this assumes pitch perfect play and is somewhat optimistic. You will have the short pause while you wait for the first depot to finish and you tend lose a few seconds at the start and when starting/finishing the OC upgrade. So 50 at 9:00 could be doable if you start your 2nd CC around 3:00 or if you add a third CC before 7:30. I don't mind aiming high, but maybe 50 at 9:30 or more than 50 at 10:00 is a bit more realistic.
@Flak:
You may find Filtersc's Bronze to Masters playlist worth looking at.
General rule of thumb for production facilities you can support is 3.5 per saturated mining base, i.e. 3 rax on 1 base, 6rax and a starport on two bases and so on. You build less than that since you want to keep money for upgrades and additional bases, which leads to the numbers given by SC2John
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On August 17 2012 12:21 Sovern wrote:
Any other terrans been doing well with highly aggressive builds like 4 rax expand into 8 rax stim/cs vs zerg, marine/hellion 1/1/1 all in vs toss, and just going back to 1 base style play?
I got back into this highly aggressive style recently because I got tired of the passivity of builds that have become standard such as 1 rax fe and I've been having a lot of success with it on the ladder, it got me back into masters and I'm wondering what the other terrans opinions are on highly aggressive 1 base play styles that rely heavily on micro.
To me they seem to be the best way to play terran as it profits on terrans early to mid game strength whereas the longer the game goes on the weaker terran gets.
I am having the exact same experience, helping me to get back into top 8 diamond and hopefully soon masters. Against protoss I am doing the 1/1/1 with helions that ForGG was doing at IEM. Against zerg I don't feel like I have that good micro with bio units so I prefer helion timings with banshee's around 8-10Minutes off 1 or 2 base.
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In Tvz, in the late game, when is it optimal to start switching over to sky terran vs broodlords?
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This is a question about drop micro. When you do the "D click" method where your medi's can drop on the run, how do you stop them from dropping all the marines if you find yourself dropping on lings or banes. My guys just die 1 by 1 while i try and figure out how to make my medivacs stop dropping </3
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Is marauder expand still viable in TvP?
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Blazinghand
United States25558 Posts
On August 18 2012 06:24 SoulAbyss94 wrote:
Is marauder expand still viable in TvP?
It has some issues dealing with VR all-in, and it's sub-optimal for fighting a macro protoss-- large maps, ramped naturals, long rush distances, and better protoss micro have all made it weaker. That being said, it still gets used occasionally by progamers like Kas, on maps with unramped or semi-unramped naturals and shorter rush distances.
It's safe against most protoss openings, but it can't really punish a 1 gate FE. It'll get a gateway unit, probably, but don't expect it to deal probe damage any more.
It's fun though! I need to bring in some new replays, but here's a guide: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=303159
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On August 18 2012 00:19 Garns wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 20:47 SC2John wrote:
7:30 is the latest time for natural expansion
You should be getting a 3rd around 11:00
9:00 - 50 SCVs
11:00 - full 3-base worker saturation (~65 workers)
[...]
Isn't 50 SCVs at 9:00 a bit high, especially if you take your natural somewhat late? Filtersc's Bronze to Master's Benchmarks aim for at least 50 SCVs at 10:00 and that's with 1 Rax FE. Unless you drop a third CC in somewhere in your base really early I don't see how you can get 50 SCVs at 9:00. Seems difficult, maybe with CC first. Let's do some Math Assuming constant SCV production for 9 minutes except when you upgrade to Orbital: 1 CC: 6 SCVs at the start, SCV build time is 17s OC upgrade time is 35s: 6 + ( ( 9 * 60 - 35 ) / 17 ) = 35 2nd CC starts at 3:45 (1 Rax FE): CC + OC is 135s: 35 + ( ( 6 * 60 + 15 - 135 ) / 17 ) = 49 Numbers are floored, we only count SCVs which have finished building. More than I expected, but this assumes pitch perfect play and is somewhat optimistic. You will have the short pause while you wait for the first depot to finish and you tend lose a few seconds at the start and when starting/finishing the OC upgrade. So 50 at 9:00 could be doable if you start your 2nd CC around 3:00 or if you add a third CC before 7:30. I don't mind aiming high, but maybe 50 at 9:30 or more than 50 at 10:00 is a bit more realistic. @Flak: You may find Filtersc's Bronze to Masters playlist worth looking at. General rule of thumb for production facilities you can support is 3.5 per saturated mining base, i.e. 3 rax on 1 base, 6rax and a starport on two bases and so on. You build less than that since you want to keep money for upgrades and additional bases, which leads to the numbers given by SC2John
I think it's actually 45 possible SCVs @ 9:00. In the second equation you have it calculated out to 10 minutes (6 * 60 + 15 on top of 3:45).
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Blazinghand
United States25558 Posts
One hard-and-fast rule is that each CC makes ~3.5 scvs per minute. It's a little more than this, but 3.5 is an easy number to calculate with At the 10 minute mark, with just your main, if you cut 2 scvs to make an orbital command and you start with 6 scvs, you should be at 39 scvs.
so on one base, you'll be at about 35 scvs at the 9 minute mark. If you want to be at 50 scvs, that means your nat has to make 15 of them, which means it had to be producing for 4 minutes, which means it has to finish becoming an OC at 5:00, which means you need to start it at 3:25, which isn't normally doable with a 1 rax FE.
That being said, you can definitely get CLOSE to 50 scvs with a 1 rax FE, and you definitely definitely can get 45.
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No you would have to start the second command center at 2:45 for it to have finished becoming an OC at 5:00. It takes 2:15 to build a CC + OC time. 45 is the most possible at 9 minutes off of a 1 rax FE after 2nd depot that goes down at 3:45.
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EPT
