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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On August 16 2012 05:38 Kamwah wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 05:33 sAsImre wrote:On August 16 2012 05:27 Kamwah wrote:On August 16 2012 05:22 sAsImre wrote:On August 16 2012 05:14 Kamwah wrote:On August 16 2012 05:00 Blazinghand wrote:On August 15 2012 05:16 Kamwah wrote:On August 15 2012 05:01 TheDwf wrote:On August 15 2012 01:04 Kamwah wrote:
Also on smaller maps remember that mech is at a disadvantage because he's not going to be able to get many Thors and his siege tanks are largely immobile so drops work very well (like a 10-11min TvP timing except Hellions don't tank like Zealots).
I feel that transitioning to Air is a bad move because a Mech'ing player will always have vikings because they need air dominance. Mass marauder is bad because when I see that I just throw down a few startports for PDDs and then his army is useless and it allows me to move anywhere and be caught unsieged and still have time to go into siege mode. I don't get why you write such things. 1. Smaller maps does not necessarily mean disadvantage for mech. You have to factor terrain (chokes or wide open middles, is the third/fourth hard to protect or not, etc.). Besides, I don't see any relation between map size and Thors (which are not even necessary against bio). 2. The bio → air transition is forced at some point. Some games will never reach that point, but if the mech player stabilizes while mining 8 gas, he'll be able to afford armies against which no bio army will be cost-efficient, even with sick concaves and flanking. Regardless of your midgame composition, your lategame goal should always be getting Vikings/Ravens/BCs. 3. How can mass Marauders be bad? Bio = MMM, what else would you do? Marines? You sure make Marines but you don't want to have mainly them since BFH and Tanks shut them down easily. And yes, Marauders are vulnerable to PDDs, which is why you have to transition to air because once he has enough Tanks and some Ravens MMM won't do anything. It does not matter if he already has some Vikings, you can just go double Reactor Starport to outproduce him and take back air control. XD I'd just woken up when I typed that. I meant to write that on smaller maps with short rush distances the bio player can have a considerable force to attack the Mech'ing player before he has siege tanks and good micro against hellions works well. I disagree that bio is unable to beat a mech'ing player at any point. He said mass marauders, not MMM. You can disagree, but you'll still be wrong. Barring an unusually open map that favors Bio a great deal, or some serious advantages gained in the early and mid game, eventually, yes, the bio play MUST tech up. He needs to do an air transition, because mech scales better than bio. As turrets and statics come up and the mech player becomes more and more unassailable, the advantages of bio die out. Any pro player who goes for bio is eventually forced into an air transition, and honestly it's not a bad transition, since in TvT air units are excellent. At a low level you could probably go Bio all game, though it'd be tough, but if you want to play well you'll learn an air transition. Ok then if that's what you wish to believe random GM Terran. Talking about Thors and small map in the same sentence about TvT is enough to discredit anything you'll say in the strategy section, no need for ad hominems. Especially when Mvp disagree with you. Every kor T say the same thing atm: mech rapes bio if you force a fight on equal supply. You claimed to be smarter than Mvp tho so I'll beg you to leave those forums, we don't deserve such a godlike insight. On every tournament map you need to transition sooner or latter into air play against mech, wether you're playing bio or mech if you can't kill him in mid game. Tanks scale way to well and you simply can't deal with 10+ tanks on the ground. If you crippled him enough in mid game pure macro + doom drops can work. On ladder maps I think that pure bio might work on condemned ridge and TDA. You can deny mech bases after the 3rd and with huge macro mode afford bad trades as long as you prevent the meching players from expanding. Tho an air transition is viable too and while it's riskier in term of stragtegy it's way easier to execute. Already mentioned it was a mistype. Seeing how you read every post except the one that mentions that. I won't bother replying to such retards that are just going to sprout crap like "You must be smarter than MVP!" Btw Blazing, I gave some comments to someone asking for help. You're the one who claimed something first. Quoting yourself: Casters and players don't know how to play mech, sorry but IMMvp comments are the opposite of what you're claming, same for Polt. You pretend they're wrong and then go for ad homines, moking Blazing skill (btw his contribution to TL is a 1000times worth yours) or calling me a retard. There is one moron here and you're unable to recognize who it is. it's sad that such poor advices who are either made because of incompetency or pure malice are written in the Terran Help me Thread when they don't help at all. You are a retard, I said they had the wrong view on Bio Vs Mech. Not that they don't know how to play it. Learn to read. You're probably one of those guys who was like "wtf why have Zergs suddenly started going Ultras?" Just because it's the popular opinion doesn't make it correct. Just to add, this started out as me arguing against someone who said bio was not viable against mech. I say it is and I've never once said that Bio or Mech is stronger.
Logic: Mvp says mech > bio as long as you force a fight.
Random TL poster says mech = bio.
Mvp > Random TL poster in term of game knowledge in 100% of the case
You're wrong.
On August 16 2012 05:41 VanillaSky wrote:
masters terran here.
I'm having trouble against zerg doing the standard fe into 4 hellion banshee because the hellion and banshee cant do anything. Is there any better build these days?
Hellions and banshee are supposed to do two things:
Slow the creep spread as much as possible
Gain and keep map control
If you don't go for at least 6hellions or cloack you don't expect to do any damage in favor of an earlier double ebay/armory
There are two other type of openings:
Hellion/bio pressure, think about a rework of DeMuslim's build, MajOr vs JRecco game 2 is a good exemple despite an awful execution
Bio pressure, you go for 3raxes like vP after FE and go for a timing against his 3rd, either stim or cs while taking your own 3rd and teching. You can see MMA vs ViOlet on Whirlwind (ro24 code A iirc)
Both those openings have a slight delay on the 3rd CC and upgrades so be aware that you'll need to do damage contrary to the opening you're currently using.
There is a slight contradiction in your question since your using one of the heaviest (you could do the same with a 14CC) macro build and expect to do damage.
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On August 16 2012 05:44 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 05:38 Kamwah wrote:On August 16 2012 05:33 sAsImre wrote:On August 16 2012 05:27 Kamwah wrote:On August 16 2012 05:22 sAsImre wrote:On August 16 2012 05:14 Kamwah wrote:On August 16 2012 05:00 Blazinghand wrote:On August 15 2012 05:16 Kamwah wrote:On August 15 2012 05:01 TheDwf wrote:On August 15 2012 01:04 Kamwah wrote:
Also on smaller maps remember that mech is at a disadvantage because he's not going to be able to get many Thors and his siege tanks are largely immobile so drops work very well (like a 10-11min TvP timing except Hellions don't tank like Zealots).
I feel that transitioning to Air is a bad move because a Mech'ing player will always have vikings because they need air dominance. Mass marauder is bad because when I see that I just throw down a few startports for PDDs and then his army is useless and it allows me to move anywhere and be caught unsieged and still have time to go into siege mode. I don't get why you write such things. 1. Smaller maps does not necessarily mean disadvantage for mech. You have to factor terrain (chokes or wide open middles, is the third/fourth hard to protect or not, etc.). Besides, I don't see any relation between map size and Thors (which are not even necessary against bio). 2. The bio → air transition is forced at some point. Some games will never reach that point, but if the mech player stabilizes while mining 8 gas, he'll be able to afford armies against which no bio army will be cost-efficient, even with sick concaves and flanking. Regardless of your midgame composition, your lategame goal should always be getting Vikings/Ravens/BCs. 3. How can mass Marauders be bad? Bio = MMM, what else would you do? Marines? You sure make Marines but you don't want to have mainly them since BFH and Tanks shut them down easily. And yes, Marauders are vulnerable to PDDs, which is why you have to transition to air because once he has enough Tanks and some Ravens MMM won't do anything. It does not matter if he already has some Vikings, you can just go double Reactor Starport to outproduce him and take back air control. XD I'd just woken up when I typed that. I meant to write that on smaller maps with short rush distances the bio player can have a considerable force to attack the Mech'ing player before he has siege tanks and good micro against hellions works well. I disagree that bio is unable to beat a mech'ing player at any point. He said mass marauders, not MMM. You can disagree, but you'll still be wrong. Barring an unusually open map that favors Bio a great deal, or some serious advantages gained in the early and mid game, eventually, yes, the bio play MUST tech up. He needs to do an air transition, because mech scales better than bio. As turrets and statics come up and the mech player becomes more and more unassailable, the advantages of bio die out. Any pro player who goes for bio is eventually forced into an air transition, and honestly it's not a bad transition, since in TvT air units are excellent. At a low level you could probably go Bio all game, though it'd be tough, but if you want to play well you'll learn an air transition. Ok then if that's what you wish to believe random GM Terran. Talking about Thors and small map in the same sentence about TvT is enough to discredit anything you'll say in the strategy section, no need for ad hominems. Especially when Mvp disagree with you. Every kor T say the same thing atm: mech rapes bio if you force a fight on equal supply. You claimed to be smarter than Mvp tho so I'll beg you to leave those forums, we don't deserve such a godlike insight. On every tournament map you need to transition sooner or latter into air play against mech, wether you're playing bio or mech if you can't kill him in mid game. Tanks scale way to well and you simply can't deal with 10+ tanks on the ground. If you crippled him enough in mid game pure macro + doom drops can work. On ladder maps I think that pure bio might work on condemned ridge and TDA. You can deny mech bases after the 3rd and with huge macro mode afford bad trades as long as you prevent the meching players from expanding. Tho an air transition is viable too and while it's riskier in term of stragtegy it's way easier to execute. Already mentioned it was a mistype. Seeing how you read every post except the one that mentions that. I won't bother replying to such retards that are just going to sprout crap like "You must be smarter than MVP!" Btw Blazing, I gave some comments to someone asking for help. You're the one who claimed something first. Quoting yourself: Casters and players don't know how to play mech, sorry but IMMvp comments are the opposite of what you're claming, same for Polt. You pretend they're wrong and then go for ad homines, moking Blazing skill (btw his contribution to TL is a 1000times worth yours) or calling me a retard. There is one moron here and you're unable to recognize who it is. it's sad that such poor advices who are either made because of incompetency or pure malice are written in the Terran Help me Thread when they don't help at all. You are a retard, I said they had the wrong view on Bio Vs Mech. Not that they don't know how to play it. Learn to read. You're probably one of those guys who was like "wtf why have Zergs suddenly started going Ultras?" Just because it's the popular opinion doesn't make it correct. Just to add, this started out as me arguing against someone who said bio was not viable against mech. I say it is and I've never once said that Bio or Mech is stronger. Logic: Mvp says mech > bio as long as you force a fight. Random TL poster says mech = bio. Mvp > Random TL poster in term of game knowledge in 100% of the case You're wrong.
You're a joke.
All you can say is that MVP once gave a quick opinion on Mech vs Bio which i'm pretty sure was from a winner's interview where he can't really talk for 5+minutes about the pros and cons.
He may be the Terran with the most results in the world but that doesn't make his opinion any more than an opinion.
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On August 16 2012 05:50 Kamwah wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 05:44 sAsImre wrote:On August 16 2012 05:38 Kamwah wrote:On August 16 2012 05:33 sAsImre wrote:On August 16 2012 05:27 Kamwah wrote:On August 16 2012 05:22 sAsImre wrote:On August 16 2012 05:14 Kamwah wrote:On August 16 2012 05:00 Blazinghand wrote:On August 15 2012 05:16 Kamwah wrote:On August 15 2012 05:01 TheDwf wrote:
[quote]
I don't get why you write such things.
1. Smaller maps does not necessarily mean disadvantage for mech. You have to factor terrain (chokes or wide open middles, is the third/fourth hard to protect or not, etc.). Besides, I don't see any relation between map size and Thors (which are not even necessary against bio).
2. The bio → air transition is forced at some point. Some games will never reach that point, but if the mech player stabilizes while mining 8 gas, he'll be able to afford armies against which no bio army will be cost-efficient, even with sick concaves and flanking. Regardless of your midgame composition, your lategame goal should always be getting Vikings/Ravens/BCs.
3. How can mass Marauders be bad? Bio = MMM, what else would you do? Marines? You sure make Marines but you don't want to have mainly them since BFH and Tanks shut them down easily. And yes, Marauders are vulnerable to PDDs, which is why you have to transition to air because once he has enough Tanks and some Ravens MMM won't do anything. It does not matter if he already has some Vikings, you can just go double Reactor Starport to outproduce him and take back air control. XD I'd just woken up when I typed that. I meant to write that on smaller maps with short rush distances the bio player can have a considerable force to attack the Mech'ing player before he has siege tanks and good micro against hellions works well. I disagree that bio is unable to beat a mech'ing player at any point. He said mass marauders, not MMM. You can disagree, but you'll still be wrong. Barring an unusually open map that favors Bio a great deal, or some serious advantages gained in the early and mid game, eventually, yes, the bio play MUST tech up. He needs to do an air transition, because mech scales better than bio. As turrets and statics come up and the mech player becomes more and more unassailable, the advantages of bio die out. Any pro player who goes for bio is eventually forced into an air transition, and honestly it's not a bad transition, since in TvT air units are excellent. At a low level you could probably go Bio all game, though it'd be tough, but if you want to play well you'll learn an air transition. Ok then if that's what you wish to believe random GM Terran. Talking about Thors and small map in the same sentence about TvT is enough to discredit anything you'll say in the strategy section, no need for ad hominems. Especially when Mvp disagree with you. Every kor T say the same thing atm: mech rapes bio if you force a fight on equal supply. You claimed to be smarter than Mvp tho so I'll beg you to leave those forums, we don't deserve such a godlike insight. On every tournament map you need to transition sooner or latter into air play against mech, wether you're playing bio or mech if you can't kill him in mid game. Tanks scale way to well and you simply can't deal with 10+ tanks on the ground. If you crippled him enough in mid game pure macro + doom drops can work. On ladder maps I think that pure bio might work on condemned ridge and TDA. You can deny mech bases after the 3rd and with huge macro mode afford bad trades as long as you prevent the meching players from expanding. Tho an air transition is viable too and while it's riskier in term of stragtegy it's way easier to execute. Already mentioned it was a mistype. Seeing how you read every post except the one that mentions that. I won't bother replying to such retards that are just going to sprout crap like "You must be smarter than MVP!" Btw Blazing, I gave some comments to someone asking for help. You're the one who claimed something first. Quoting yourself: Casters and players don't know how to play mech, sorry but IMMvp comments are the opposite of what you're claming, same for Polt. You pretend they're wrong and then go for ad homines, moking Blazing skill (btw his contribution to TL is a 1000times worth yours) or calling me a retard. There is one moron here and you're unable to recognize who it is. it's sad that such poor advices who are either made because of incompetency or pure malice are written in the Terran Help me Thread when they don't help at all. You are a retard, I said they had the wrong view on Bio Vs Mech. Not that they don't know how to play it. Learn to read. You're probably one of those guys who was like "wtf why have Zergs suddenly started going Ultras?" Just because it's the popular opinion doesn't make it correct. Just to add, this started out as me arguing against someone who said bio was not viable against mech. I say it is and I've never once said that Bio or Mech is stronger. Logic: Mvp says mech > bio as long as you force a fight. Random TL poster says mech = bio. Mvp > Random TL poster in term of game knowledge in 100% of the case You're wrong. You're a joke. All you can say is that MVP once gave a quick opinion on Mech vs Bio which i'm pretty sure was from a winner's interview where he can't really talk for 5+minutes about the pros and cons. He may be the Terran with the most results in the world but that doesn't make his opinion any more than an opinion.
if you believe than everyone's opinion is worth the same...
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mech and bio are both good and some fit other players differently , mkp shouldnt play mech for example. Safest is too go siege tank marine. Going mech in tvt is very risky early mmm drop harass could fuck u up so badly and once behind with mech against bio almost impossible to comeback against good players.
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On August 16 2012 05:44 sAsImre wrote:
Logic: Mvp says mech > bio as long as you force a fight.
Random TL poster says mech = bio.
Mvp > Random TL poster in term of game knowledge in 100% of the case
You're wrong.
Look dude, just because Mvp says mech is better than bio doesn't automatically make bio out of the picture.
I bet that if you went mech, and Mvp went bio, he'd win. Does that mean bio > mech?
Nope. It just means, in the current metagame, mech is better than bio if both are played correctly. But Starcraft is a game where mistakes happen from both ends, and all-in-all it depends on who can capitalize on those mistakes; it's not as easy as just saying "mech > bio, you're wrong, go mech every game cause bio is not viable anymore".
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
@SKDN and Cyclone, you're missing the context of the discussion, which is the following statement: "as TvT progresses towards the late game, when a bio player is playing a mech player, it becomes optimal for the bio player to do an air transition"
Any discussion of whether or not bio is a legitimate style isn't the point. The point is that eventually, a direct attack on siege tanks becomes difficult (except on some maps, like TDA, where tanks can't easily secure 4th bases, and bio can just outmacro and engage on the open field), and big air support in the form of ravens and BCs is required, especially for a bio player who has no tanks of his own.
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On August 16 2012 15:27 Blazinghand wrote:
@SKDN and Cyclone, you're missing the context of the discussion, which is the following statement: "as TvT progresses towards the late game, when a bio player is playing a mech player, it becomes optimal for the bio player to do an air transition"
Any discussion of whether or not bio is a legitimate style isn't the point. The point is that eventually, a direct attack on siege tanks becomes difficult (except on some maps, like TDA, where tanks can't easily secure 4th bases, and bio can just outmacro and engage on the open field), and big air support in the form of ravens and BCs is required, especially for a bio player who has no tanks of his own.
I thought that was obvious? that you learned in gold league. What I tried to say with my earlier post is that mech is that mech above 150 supply is strong but getting there can be tough against a good bio opponent.
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On August 16 2012 05:38 Kamwah wrote:
Just to add, this started out as me arguing against someone who said bio was not viable against mech. I say it is and I've never once said that Bio or Mech is stronger.
Thing is, I never said that if you read carefully my post. I said at some point (not any point), i. e. when the mech player has too many Tanks (and possibly Ravens), bio can no longer realistically expect to win a fight head-on.
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Lets stop talking about it then and actually discuss something that can help us beat Zerg or Protoss  Just bashing each others and misreading isnt good. I have alot of success with mvps mech build which you can find replay of here. http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/replays/57846
Even if he gets rushed, you could get the clue of how to transition and ofc how to beat allins, sometimes you should just make marines if he goes way too aggressive. I have alot of replays of performing the build but im Just diamond so if anyone wants it just say so. build works very well on entombed
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On August 16 2012 17:53 SKDN wrote:Lets stop talking about it then and actually discuss something that can help us beat Zerg or Protoss Just bashing each others and misreading isnt good. I have alot of success with mvps mech build which you can find replay of here. http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/replays/57846Even if he gets rushed, you could get the clue of how to transition and ofc how to beat allins, sometimes you should just make marines if he goes way too aggressive. I have alot of replays of performing the build but im Just diamond so if anyone wants it just say so. build works very well on entombed
Can't watch the replay but i suppose you use his 1rax FE build?
I'm still not sold on the way I personnaly like to go mech, off a 1-1-1 or Mvp style
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I personally love it, Diamond zergs just freak out when banshees come, Can kill queens sometimes even make raven after 3rd banshee drop PDD kill hatchery or just all queens this only fails if there is tons of spores and then you just dont go in or when he goes mutas and those mutas are such a waste against mech.
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On August 14 2012 20:44 OneBaseKing wrote:
How many workers should i have per patch? I'm in masters but i don't even know it..
for minerals 16 is kind of semi-saturation, this is the point where any extras still give you more minerals but not as efficiently as the first 16. up to 24 you still gain minerals, more than 24 and you gain 0 minerals from the scvs over 24.
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Hey Guys!
I have a rather basic question regarding my 10 minute MMM push as I plant my 3rd base down.
@10 minutes, I have ~100 food, +1 attack, stim and combat shields half done. I have 4 medivacs and 70% marine and 30% marauder.
I'm curious your opinions of how to set up the attack. Assuming each opponent has expanded and has ~100 food army as well and has their army positioned below their ramp by their natural, and my enemy owns the watch towers (worst case scenario) what is the best way to setup and attack?:
Vs. Protoss army with 2 colossi and heavy zealot
Vs. Zerg with ling/bling/muta
Vs. Terran going tank marine
I'm only a gold level player, but I'm playing customs and getting diamond/masters almost exclusively and getting owned in regard to engagements (though my macro is stronger than my opponents 9 out of 10 times). Initially, I realized against protoss that I have lost most engagements due to an observer in my army (and and since started scanning to kill before moving). Should I split my drops, keep my army together, not drop at all.... what do you think?
Jinx
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On August 17 2012 04:03 jinx1281255 wrote:
Hey Guys!
I have a rather basic question regarding my 10 minute MMM push as I plant my 3rd base down.
@10 minutes, I have ~100 food, +1 attack, stim and combat shields half done. I have 4 medivacs and 70% marine and 30% marauder.
I'm curious your opinions of how to set up the attack. Assuming each opponent has expanded and has ~100 food army as well and has their army positioned below their ramp by their natural, and my enemy owns the watch towers (worst case scenario) what is the best way to setup and attack?:
Vs. Protoss army with 2 colossi and heavy zealot
Vs. Zerg with ling/bling/muta
Vs. Terran going tank marine
I'm only a gold level player, but I'm playing customs and getting diamond/masters almost exclusively and getting owned in regard to engagements (though my macro is stronger than my opponents 9 out of 10 times). Initially, I realized against protoss that I have lost most engagements due to an observer in my army (and and since started scanning to kill before moving). Should I split my drops, keep my army together, not drop at all.... what do you think?
Jinx
Against P you do not have to immediately engage or commit to any sort of attack. He cannot chase you so you can poke around and see if you can win the fight or not. If not, secure your 3rd and put down a Ghost Academy, followed up with some Vikings if you see Colossus. Just don't put yourself in a bad position where you will get FF'd.
Against Z, you should be attacking abit earlier or coming in with a 6 Helion/2 Medivac/Bio timing on his 3rd with Stim and a crapload of units to run him over. If he doesn't take his 3rd early, just expand and proceed as usual off your 3 CC build.
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Against Z is very similar to against P, the point of the hellion/medivac attack is not because the composition is strong in battle, but because it can poke and prod with superior mobility just like you do in TvP.
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@Willzzzz
Are you saying the opening I am doing is not very viable in a TvZ? Or if it is, what time is a good time to hit zerg (being that earlier than 9:20 I will have no medivacs)?
Why is it that an attack is not necessary on protoss players? When do I need to engage?
Thanks for your help!
Jinx
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Tank marine is perfectly viable, but you usually want to pair it with a map control unit to make sure that your army doesn't find itself in a position where it can be killed.
This could be just having a few hellions, or a banshee, any unit that can provide a degree of map control. The purpose of this is to gauge whether it is safe or appropriate for your main army to make an attack.
A marine/tank army is very strong, and sometimes they might attack and win a glorious victory, other times they might get crushed by a superior force or a clever surround. Having a few fast units to scout the map can greatly reduce this risk.
You only ever need to attack if your opponent is gaining an advantage that you cannot match. Zerg can do this by playing very greedy, attacking forces them to be less greedy. Protoss can also play quite greedy, but not to the extent that you can't match them.
If both sides are equal there is no need to attack, typically this is the foolish choice of action as the defender usually has the advantage. But you do need to prod and poke to ensure that the enemy is doing what you expect. If they are taking a risk you should attempt to punish it.
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Ok, thanks, that makes sense. My build actually doesn't use any tanks though, it's just MMM with upgrades with added vikings or ghosts are necessary. That was the build I was asking about in conjuction with the three different race situations I listed. I'll post a replay that might clarify my specific question on this topic as well when I get home.
Jinx
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Playing against a lot of platinums at gold (yes, I know I suck) I decided I need to up my game, and most of the reasons why I lose is not because of my mechanics, but my build orders.
Most of the time I would go to sites like liquipedia to find build orders, but some of them are old and a lot aren't up to date, and it's hard for me to find a build that I like, or one that can combat up to date patches. There are other sites that have been recommended to me, but I don't find them good, or they aren't resourceful with their builds.
I see a lot of pros find or make builds that are really good, and just get them and use them instantly, but I don't know where to get or where to find them. Where can I learn how to get good builds or learn how to make decent ones myself?
I want to learn a lot of macro builds that involve micro as well(I'm pretty good at doing them at the same time) but I don't know how to get to that stage fast enough with what I'm building, or the units that I'm producing. I make scvs on the spot all the time, but the buildings I get and how fast I should get my upgrades and tech are all on the fly, and I think that's what's costing me games.
I know how to play TvT best atm, my TvZ is on and off, and my TvP is very low..
I'm trying to look for FE bulids for TvZ and TvP, or 1 rax FE transitions, that aren't very greedy and can transition into mid and late game very well. I like bio tank builds vs TvZ, but can't really find one on any site, and I just want a standard and decent TvP build that can deal with colossi and HT's. Any recommendations appreciated! Thanks
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United States4883 Posts
On August 17 2012 09:40 Absurd Bunny wrote:
Playing against a lot of platinums at gold (yes, I know I suck) I decided I need to up my game, and most of the reasons why I lose is not because of my mechanics, but my build orders.
Most of the time I would go to sites like liquipedia to find build orders, but some of them are old and a lot aren't up to date, and it's hard for me to find a build that I like, or one that can combat up to date patches. There are other sites that have been recommended to me, but I don't find them good, or they aren't resourceful with their builds.
I see a lot of pros find or make builds that are really good, and just get them and use them instantly, but I don't know where to get or where to find them. Where can I learn how to get good builds or learn how to make decent ones myself?
I want to learn a lot of macro builds that involve micro as well(I'm pretty good at doing them at the same time) but I don't know how to get to that stage fast enough with what I'm building, or the units that I'm producing. I make scvs on the spot all the time, but the buildings I get and how fast I should get my upgrades and tech are all on the fly, and I think that's what's costing me games.
I know how to play TvT best atm, my TvZ is on and off, and my TvP is very low..
I'm trying to look for FE bulids for TvZ and TvP, or 1 rax FE transitions, that aren't very greedy and can transition into mid and late game very well. I like bio tank builds vs TvZ, but can't really find one on any site, and I just want a standard and decent TvP build that can deal with colossi and HT's. Any recommendations appreciated! Thanks
This might be really awful advice, but I'm going to give it anyway:
Just watch some VoDs of pro players doing their thing, note BIG things, and then just try to do it yourself. For instance, you may watch a ForGG build and think "Hmm, so it's a 1rax expo into reactored hellions...he gets 2 gas before barracks, then he gets a starport afterwards for 2 barracks, 1 reactor factory, and 1 techlab starport. It seems he does a poke when he gets 4 hellions, then starts going apeshit aggro once the 3rd banshee pops out...he also takes his 3rd around this time."
There you have an entire build stated in simple observations. From there, you can work on all the fine points yourself, making sure you have good macro and managing your economy well (primarily meaning the times at which you take your gases). I do this all the time, and I LOVE spending like 60 games refining a build until it's perfect based off of a simple idea of "hellion/banshee harass". In addition to learning these builds super well over time, you also begin to understand the inner workings of your race, and duplicating builds becomes easier because it's just some kind of variation on something you already know (e.g. 1rax FE into 4rax versus 1rax FE into 5rax). You can do this for ANY build. Just practice watching GSL or something and noting really broad ideas like "oh, Bomber pushes out with his MMM force with his first 2 medivacs, which happens to be 10:00"; Now you have an ultra specific timing to work towards, etc.
It helps to have really specific guidelines based on the midgame. For instance, a PvT build I'm working on is based on having 3 bases, 7gates, +1 armor, blink, and 2 immortals with some sentries out by 10:30 when the first terran poke comes. It took a lot of time and money management and thought to figure it out, but I got it working, and I did it all just by using a broad 1-gate triple nexus build I saw. From the terran's perspective, you can say something like, "I want a bio ball with +1 attack/stim and medivacs popping out right at 10:00 so I can start attacking." You can make it work, just think about broad goals and spend a lot of time working out the builds.
P.S. Working out builds also makes your APM higher and your multitasking and general macro better.
EDIT: P.P.S. If you find you're doing everything right but you still get everything out 2 minutes later, think about optimizing things or reordering things so that your economy works out better. OR, just make absolutely sure your macro is spot on with 0 or negligible delays.
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