EPTThe Terran Help Me Thread - Page 297
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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chambertin
United States1704 Posts
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Omgoodnessess
United States61 Posts
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SgtJoKeR
Canada37 Posts
On July 10 2012 22:43 Omgoodnessess wrote: Does anyone know a solid step by step build order for a double expand in TvP for 3 OCC when the protoss does a 14 nexus? I just use my own variation after expanding again after i get 400 minerals after my natural expansion. However, my build is not really good as i always run short on gas and really delayed on tech etc. I wouldn't suggest you to go 3 oc in TvP but you can try it if you want and see if you have success with it. Normally you would want to stop the protoss from doing what he wants and 3OC is kinda againts this. It really isn't complicated to do 3 oc though. You can do it off 1 rax FE and at 22-23 you get a third (@400 mineral) Then along the way you continue just like a standard 1 rax FE, add rax , add gas, add more rax ( because the money will come in faster on 3OC, get factory and starport along the way. get double ebay up and get upgrades. or you can do 3OC off a cc first, need top control though. 14 cc, 16 rax, 20 oc , 21 cc add 3-4 more rax. or a safer way : 14 cc, 15 rax, 17 rax, @6:00 minutes 3rd. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On July 10 2012 22:21 chambertin wrote: Can a Thor Strike cannon a CC/OC and prevent a lift? Yes, and it can also strike cannon a P Fort to prevent it from shooting back. I'm unsure as to the effect on bunkers, though. | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On July 09 2012 19:37 Qibla wrote: Ok I'll try that, but say on a 4 base map where you scout after nexus is planted. What is your follow up? I haven't played around with this too much, but I'm fairly sure the answer lies somewhere between teching and an early attack. The scariest thing you HAVE to deal with is like a 7 or 8-rax push around 9:00-10:00. I pretty much always go 3CC off of 1 marine. I've played around with doing a 4rax marine/SCV attack, limiting the number of sentries/FF that protoss can have, followed up by a big MMM push. However, I don't think this works nearly as well as getting a 1-1-1 setup. I think getting fast tanks after expanding is definitely optimal, going for a push at about 10:00 with stimmed marines/tanks/SCVs. After this you can set up a strong contain, take a 3rd+4th, and switch to whatever tech you want. Try it and let me know how it goes! Hope this helps! | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On July 11 2012 01:02 SC2John wrote: I haven't played around with this too much, but I'm fairly sure the answer lies somewhere between teching and an early attack. The scariest thing you HAVE to deal with is like a 7 or 8-rax push around 9:00-10:00. I pretty much always go 3CC off of 1 marine. I've played around with doing a 4rax marine/SCV attack, limiting the number of sentries/FF that protoss can have, followed up by a big MMM push. However, I don't think this works nearly as well as getting a 1-1-1 setup. I think getting fast tanks after expanding is definitely optimal, going for a push at about 10:00 with stimmed marines/tanks/SCVs. After this you can set up a strong contain, take a 3rd+4th, and switch to whatever tech you want. Try it and let me know how it goes! Hope this helps! 1 rax CC opener works just fine against a 15 Nexus, and you have a number of options. Assuming he went 15 Nexus with a gateway followup (as opposed to a forge), a quick third is advisable if not perfect. Dealing with big marine pressure can be tough for a 15 nexus player, but bear in mind that once warpgate is done, any sort of attack purely by ground without factory or starport tech won't work. Here are my typical responses to a 15 nexus, having openeed 1 rax FE: 1) go with a 2 base tank allin. This will typically be with like 4-5 tanks, siege, a ton of marines, stimpack, and a few scattered air units, such as banshees, vikings, medivacs, to deal with what he has. This allin hits at or below 150 supply and is quite strong. 2) take a quick third. The protoss basically can't attack you until WG tech, which is delayed with 15 nexus. an in-base third will drastically boost your scv production, give you a couple mules, and can fly out to let you take a quick third. 3) do a normal medivac rush. This is my least favorite, which is to just play like he did a 1 gate FE, and go for medivacs off of 3 rax, and a third behind the medivacs. I think a 15 nexus is just ahead in this situation. | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On July 11 2012 01:10 Blazinghand wrote: 1 rax CC opener works just fine against a 15 Nexus, and you have a number of options. Assuming he went 15 Nexus with a gateway followup (as opposed to a forge), a quick third is advisable if not perfect. Dealing with big marine pressure can be tough for a 15 nexus player, but bear in mind that once warpgate is done, any sort of attack purely by ground without factory or starport tech won't work. Here are my typical responses to a 15 nexus, having openeed 1 rax FE: 1) go with a 2 base tank allin. This will typically be with like 4-5 tanks, siege, a ton of marines, stimpack, and a few scattered air units, such as banshees, vikings, medivacs, to deal with what he has. This allin hits at or below 150 supply and is quite strong. 2) take a quick third. The protoss basically can't attack you until WG tech, which is delayed with 15 nexus. an in-base third will drastically boost your scv production, give you a couple mules, and can fly out to let you take a quick third. 3) do a normal medivac rush. This is my least favorite, which is to just play like he did a 1 gate FE, and go for medivacs off of 3 rax, and a third behind the medivacs. I think a 15 nexus is just ahead in this situation. The one problem I have with option 3 is that it will not hold off a 7- or 8-gate attack. I've played against a few friends who say they hate that mass warp-gate all in, and beat me pretty convincingly with it even though they don't play protoss. Option 3 will simply just DIE to a 9:00 attack before stim/+1/medivacs are done. Because it's 7-8 warpgates, almost no amount of bunkers will save you, and the protoss can just continually keep warping in. Even with 4-5 rax with add-ons, it's extraordinarily hard to hold this off. I DO NOT suggest this. Ever. | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On July 10 2012 14:33 Daniel C wrote: TvZ: I'm high diamond and I want to know from others of the same level or higher whether and how their strategy changes when scouting gas vs. no gas after hatch/pool with the SCV scout. I find that my decision and build orders (edit: from 1 rax FE) do not change whether I scout gas or no gas - if I was going reactor hellion I would continue to do so, if I planned to get cloak banshees I would continue to do so, I would continue to go bio if that was my plan for the game. I'm thinking that I could improve my play if I were to incorporate this decision-making into my process. Other than the super-early speedling rush, what else changes upon scouting gas? (AFAIK the roach/ling/bane attack comes with later gas, after the scout has been denied with lings/queen...correct?) This is, perhaps completely different for me. I prefer to open up mass rax (generally 4rax) and do some early marine pressure at 7:00. If I scout no gas, this attack is perfectly fine, I execute it, deny the 3rd, kill some lings, kill some queens, etc. If there IS gas, I generally just get all my tech a little faster. Instead of adding 4 gas after pure marine attack, I add 2 gas around 5:00, get marauders and CS faster. This will deny any baneling or roach busts as well as get me started on my midgame upgrades. I can generally get my medivacs out at ~10:30 and push with my MMM force. The biggest problem I've been having, though, is dealing with if he JUST got speed and then took a 3rd. I have no way to deal with it or to scout it (without potentially wasting a scan). Perhaps a single banshee should be added into my play or something. Actually, if anyone has a suggestion on how to deal with it, I'd be happy to hear. | ||
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chambertin
United States1704 Posts
On July 11 2012 00:47 Blazinghand wrote: Yes, and it can also strike cannon a P Fort to prevent it from shooting back. I'm unsure as to the effect on bunkers, though. Wow, had no idea it had that effect on a PF. That's awesome! Thanks for your response  | ||
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jay.li
United States23 Posts
On July 10 2012 12:15 sinisterrtheory wrote: TvT when i go mech i have problems playing terrans cause they drop their medviacs with marines in a line over my seige tanks, i feel like i wanna have a strong tank count but it bites me, any tips? Should i keep the tanks in a flower? or build vikings earlier/cut upgrades etc. Tank spread is extremely important, as is air control when going mech. The combination of hellions near your tanks, more vikings in the air, and well spread tanks should completely solve this problem. On the off chance that he has his entire army loaded up (which is extremely hard to tell) if you unsiege, you will just blow up/fry the units as they pop out of the medivacs 5 or 6 at a time. | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On July 11 2012 01:10 Blazinghand wrote: 1 rax CC opener works just fine against a 15 Nexus, and you have a number of options. Assuming he went 15 Nexus with a gateway followup (as opposed to a forge), a quick third is advisable if not perfect. Dealing with big marine pressure can be tough for a 15 nexus player, but bear in mind that once warpgate is done, any sort of attack purely by ground without factory or starport tech won't work. Here are my typical responses to a 15 nexus, having openeed 1 rax FE: 1) go with a 2 base tank allin. This will typically be with like 4-5 tanks, siege, a ton of marines, stimpack, and a few scattered air units, such as banshees, vikings, medivacs, to deal with what he has. This allin hits at or below 150 supply and is quite strong. 2) take a quick third. The protoss basically can't attack you until WG tech, which is delayed with 15 nexus. an in-base third will drastically boost your scv production, give you a couple mules, and can fly out to let you take a quick third. 3) do a normal medivac rush. This is my least favorite, which is to just play like he did a 1 gate FE, and go for medivacs off of 3 rax, and a third behind the medivacs. I think a 15 nexus is just ahead in this situation. They go gateway if they see a gas opening and stay with their nexus first after pylon probe scout. They see 1 rax FE, and they go forge. The option is there for them to do a fast 2 base +1 armor timing push 6 gate attack that is brutal. | ||
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Douillos
France3195 Posts
Going for gas before third if I scout no gas from Z. I think you really want to be greedy if you see him going for some queen defense third... | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On July 11 2012 04:28 Douillos wrote: Going for gas before third if I scout no gas from Z. I think you really want to be greedy if you see him going for some queen defense third... I never feel safe with it. I feel once they get wind of it, they can go into roach bane, or roach ling all ins and just roll the hell out of you, and because they're on 3 base, probably 4 hatch, they aren't really at all all in. Just my opinion though. You never want to delay tech (ie siege, stim, bf, cs, +1/+1, medics, etc) against zerg, it just never works out well | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On July 11 2012 04:30 iAmJeffReY wrote: I never feel safe with it. I feel once they get wind of it, they can go into roach bane, or roach ling all ins and just roll the hell out of you, and because they're on 3 base, probably 4 hatch, they aren't really at all all in. Just my opinion though. You never want to delay tech (ie siege, stim, bf, cs, +1/+1, medics, etc) against zerg, it just never works out well Just to point out: marines/marauders and well-placed bunkers will hold off any early bust. That being said, you match the zerg economy by delaying gas as well and getting an earlier 3rd. Then you just have to hold as your tech gets up. If you defend a bust until stim/CS is done or medivacs, you're golden. | ||
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Eee
Sweden2712 Posts
And is there a replay released for the Bio-Mech style MKP played against Stehpano on Entombed Valley at MLG Spring Championship (the same that MVP played against Ret? at Homestory Cup 5 on the same map) | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On July 11 2012 05:21 Eee wrote: Hi, I'm high gold Zerg player but I'm planning to switch to Terran (since i despise roaches and dont want to be forced to use a unit i hate in 2/3 matchups T_T). Any reccomendation of good macro builds to start out with (Want to play micro/multitask intensive styles). And is there a replay released for the Bio-Mech style MKP played against Stehpano on Entombed Valley at MLG Spring Championship (the same that MVP played against Ret? at Homestory Cup 5 on the same map) In TvT, a common macro build is a 1 rax fast expand that adds on more rax. This is 10 depot, 12 barracks, OC after barracks, then a second depot, and a CC as soon as you can afford it. You typically add more rax, take gasses, and try to get out medivacs and tanks to supplement your marines. Combat shield before stim typically. This build can hold a 1-1-1 attack with some difficulty. In TvP, a common macro build is a 1 rax fast expand, add on 2 more rax, take gasses and get stimpack and starport. | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On July 11 2012 05:01 SC2John wrote: Just to point out: marines/marauders and well-placed bunkers will hold off any early bust. That being said, you match the zerg economy by delaying gas as well and getting an earlier 3rd. Then you just have to hold as your tech gets up. If you defend a bust until stim/CS is done or medivacs, you're golden. Yet, all the need is speed, and they can cover the map in creep, and take a 4th once they heed wind of your fast third. It's not a favorable situation. That aside, I still think a roach bane attack will hit too strong, and too early, even after a fast third gasless, that a 1 rax FE into 3rd OC won't be able to power the amount of units needed to hold a bust like that. Even if you do, zerg can tech and bust at the same time, or bust and drone behind it... You never really know for sure. If you have the macro for it, and ability to move on the map against an unharassed, full drone count before 10 min zerg, then by all means you are a better man than I. | ||
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Opasmea
United Kingdom34 Posts
I like macro games and lots of multi tasking and pressure. I just want like the best build order so I can get back into ladder again (all I do is lose atm) just a replay of each build, or even a typed out version would be a big help. I would like strong expansion builds that focus on late game if possible. I am losing a lot on ladder due to helions being a large investment for no reward vs zerg, banshees getting shut down by scouting and turrets, and then my protoss build always has me behind. I understand that leaving the game for a long time will effect your game, but I was winning more than 60% of games before I left, and since I came back, I played like 20 and struggled to keep it at 50% win/loss I am just losing whatever I seem to do and only winning if I get into late game. My problem with vs zerg is that if I play greedy (1 rax expo into early third into bio) I just lose to a roach/baneling timing. My problem with protoss is a little less, if I do 1 rax expo I only ever lose to 6gate zealot sentry all-ins My problem with Terran is the same as it ever was, I scout very poorly because there are so many options with terran Please help, I will love you very much if you take the time to help with my problems, I feel so clueless in every game. Like I am just 1 step behind everyone I play | ||
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Clockkwork
United States7 Posts
On July 11 2012 11:13 Opasmea wrote: My problem with vs zerg is that if I play greedy (1 rax expo into early third into bio) I just lose to a roach/baneling timing. My problem with protoss is a little less, if I do 1 rax expo I only ever lose to 6gate zealot sentry all-ins My problem with Terran is the same as it ever was, I scout very poorly because there are so many options with terran Please help, I will love you very much if you take the time to help with my problems, I feel so clueless in every game. Like I am just 1 step behind everyone I play If you'd like some solid build orders, I would like to refer you to a couple of Day9's recent dailies! TvT: -Basically a 1 rax expand with a very powerful marine/medivac timing with stim, combat shield, and +1 attack. This then transitions into a bit of later tank play as well as an easy-to-establish 3rd base. TvP: -This is also a 1 rax expo, except the CC goes down before the 2nd depot. Everything just seems to be produced faster and more efficiently than a 2 rax pressure. As for zerg... I have been experimenting with some mech play myself, but still that is my worst matchup. While I cannot provide direct advice and help, for I am a mere platinum player, Day9 certainly would do the job! Good luck gettin' back into the swing of things. | ||
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