EPThttp://drop.sc/96881
Two TvPs
They get deep into late game, I'm having so much trouble, and I can't seem to find what I'm doing wrong. I'm sure my upgrades are fine, but HOW do i beat turtle into Deathball?????
The Terran Help Me Thread - Page 131
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Shankapotamus
United States428 Posts
http://drop.sc/96881 Two TvPs They get deep into late game, I'm having so much trouble, and I can't seem to find what I'm doing wrong. I'm sure my upgrades are fine, but HOW do i beat turtle into Deathball????? | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
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segfault-
United States7 Posts
On January 24 2012 14:58 Chaggi wrote: anyone have good replays of a reactor hellion into like 3 OC's? Check out KawaiiRice's replay pack. | ||
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saaaa
Germany419 Posts
Bomber TvZ 3CC build in this forum is really nice let me search it... Bombers TvZ | ||
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VoO
Germany278 Posts
On January 24 2012 12:47 Shankapotamus wrote: http://drop.sc/96882 http://drop.sc/96881 Two TvPs They get deep into late game, I'm having so much trouble, and I can't seem to find what I'm doing wrong. I'm sure my upgrades are fine, but HOW do i beat turtle into Deathball????? I can't really help you there since I have the same problems but I like to add the question: "How to drop vs. this common turtle style?" I really can't see an opening. Your macro is pretty good, you have your build order down but what strikes me the most is that your opponent always was one tech step ahead. You got Vikings after he had collosi, you got ghosts after he had templars, which basically denied all possible timing pushes. A scan or two wouldn't have hurt, I guess. | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
On January 24 2012 12:47 Shankapotamus wrote: http://drop.sc/96882 http://drop.sc/96881 Two TvPs They get deep into late game, I'm having so much trouble, and I can't seem to find what I'm doing wrong. I'm sure my upgrades are fine, but HOW do i beat turtle into Deathball????? it's kinda sad because I was gonna be like oh well you could do this, and then noticed you were doing it already, and it happened a lot I think the big thing is that him having that 4th base for a bit too long. I feel like you need to go between sniping the 3rd and the 4th to basically keep it under control. Then again, I'm under the assumption that if it goes over 3 base, I'm gonna just lose. Also losing the ghosts to go in and EMP was a bit bad. You lost a LOT to just them moving in. | ||
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leecx
Singapore41 Posts
P.S. REMEMBER TO SCOUT, HAVING 20 GHOSTS AGAINST 7 COLOSSI ISN'T GOING TO DO SHIT. | ||
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Ezkaton
Japan416 Posts
 I'm a High diamond toss that is switching to Terran currently, and I'm having some problems. They mainly revolve around HOW to engage armies properly, I feel like I've lost many games to poor engagements. So firstly in TvT when its marine/tank vs marine/tank how do you engage each other? And also is there a way to force an engagement (drops, nukes etc)? Secondly in PvT how do you engage a protoss army efficiently? I mean is it best to kite the zealots while vikings kill colossi then kill stalkers, or just stand still, or focus fire certain units? It really has me confused Thats all thanks guys ^^ | ||
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Squigly
United Kingdom629 Posts
I decided the land war was drawn so went BCs, with 2-2 air as i started, 3-3 soon, his air was 2-1. I kinda went more BC than vikings which i assume was my issue as i got kinda owned by viking thor marine. What sort of ratio of BC-viking (raven?) is normal? | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
P.S. REMEMBER TO SCOUT, HAVING 20 GHOSTS AGAINST 7 COLOSSI ISN'T GOING TO DO SHIT. Or embarrass him for having no OB and physically kill the collsai with the 20 cloaked ghosts. That's always an option. | ||
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Absentia
United Kingdom973 Posts
On January 24 2012 12:47 Shankapotamus wrote: http://drop.sc/96882 http://drop.sc/96881 Two TvPs They get deep into late game, I'm having so much trouble, and I can't seem to find what I'm doing wrong. I'm sure my upgrades are fine, but HOW do i beat turtle into Deathball????? Game 1: 8:40 Use your factory for something. Personally I prefer to fly it over one of my base edges so I can scout for drops, (like an overlord) You can use it to scout alternatively, which is something you've neglected to do this game. I tend to drop two scans at most in my TvPs during the early mid game. The first is at 6:00-6:30 to confirm an expansion. The second is at 8:00-8:30 to check his 3/4 gases. This will confirm if there's an all in coming. General: If you're going to go 1 ebay into double ebay 2/2, you need to start your upgrades a little bit earlier. I think my +1 upgrade starts around 6:30 so I have +1 for a small push at about 9 minutes with 2/2 starting at about 12. 11:00 this is when you should be on 5 rax with a third on the way (generally speaking). Judging from your money at 12:00 you've obviously slipped on your macro a little. It's certainly not game breaking but it can be a big deal. You should've seen he's gone colossus. A personal preference I have is to throw down a second starport as soon as I scout a robo bay. This allows you to maintain medivac production as well as producing vikings at the same time (1:2 ratio of medivacs to vikings). I've found this allows me to defend much easier against any kind of 2 base all in but it also enables you to be more aggressive in directconfrontations. In other words instead of having to do cutesy harrass play, you'll be able to actually push with a decent viking/medivac count to keep the protoss army honest. You'll end up with a slightly weaker ground army, (in terms of marine/marauder count) but the extra medivacs are way more beneficial that an extra marauder of two in my experience. An extra point is that it also allows you to drop more without having to worry (as much) about losing medivacs. Obviously you wont want to throw medivacs away, but losing 1 of 2 during constant viking production can be stressful. 20:00 You've dropped the 4th and you've dropped his main but your army is sitting at your ramp. Stick the vikings above that cliff by the protoss's third and try to snipe it with your main army. There's no point dropping hoping for massive economic damage in max vs max scenarios. Use the drops to divert attention and push somewhere with your main army. 21:00 You're going for an engagement but 7 ghosts is WAY too few for a max vs max engagement. As soon as your ghost academy finishes, just make sure you're constantly producing ghosts so your max army has plenty of them. Honestly I tend to go up to 17+ and use drops/sacrifice SCVs to make room for that number if I max on, say, 10. Instead of going for big engagements up his ramp, focus on sending a marine to his possible 4th expansions and use your army to deny him economy, (instead of using it to attack his army). You need a lot more barracks and you need to be expanding more at this point as well. Effectively you're barely on 2 base at this point and in the late game you should be on three constantly. I just want to draw attention to how low your medivac count is in your main army as well. 2 is nowhere near enough for an endgame engagement. My personal preference is 8. The difference between 2 and 8 medivacs in the lategame is obviously going to be gigantic. Cutesey harass is ok but when you've got no medivacs with your main army, you're just going to get rolled. 22:00 You can tell you're having difficulty with this engagement. EMP'ing practically his entire army was nice but if you're not going to push up, what's the point? You also missed the most crucial of his units to emp - the templar. No matterhow much you EMP his army, if the toss has storms, the engagement is very likely going his way. As a result you basically end up throwing ghosts away. 22:30 was obviously a horrible engagement for both of you. His position was terrible, your army was even worse. The protoss is on 3 base economy max with no fourth on the way.... what are you attacking him for? 23:00 Your low economy/low barracks count is really hurting you on your remax. That's why focusing on your economy and denying his is so important. At least if you have a somewhat crappy engagement, you'll have decent production to fall back on. 25:30 Scan his main army to snipe observers. It makes your ghosts way more effective. 26:00 You throw your ghosts away for some ok-ish EMPs and then follow up with a non-max army vs superior supply protoss. Ghosts aren't a throw away unit - you do want to keep them alive so far as possible. You need to choose way better engagements. After that, the game is basically over. General: Work on your general army control. Suiciding ghosts is never a good thing. Keep your whole army fairly close together,scan the protoss army and dance with your vikings to snipe any observers. If he blinks forward to kill your vikings, stim some units and push them forward. In terms of EMPs, prioritise his hts. If you get his hts, you can pull the ghosts back, stim in and carpet emp the rest of the army if it surges forward. If you're confident there's no detection, you can try to carpet EMP immediately and then stim in but this can be more difficult depending on the protoss's position. Focus fire with the vikings, stutter step your MMM and try to save your ghosts. On January 24 2012 20:00 Squigly wrote: I still have no idea of what im aiming for lategame TvT. Like at all. I palyed a game against a low master and was ahead all game by quite a lot (supply income and army, even upgrades) then just died lategame. I decided the land war was drawn so went BCs, with 2-2 air as i started, 3-3 soon, his air was 2-1. I kinda went more BC than vikings which i assume was my issue as i got kinda owned by viking thor marine. What sort of ratio of BC-viking (raven?) is normal? BCs are the least helpful component of the terran air force against anything other than mass thor play and mass marines (In air vs air). With that in mind, try and keep your BC count relative to however many Thors your opponent has. If he's spamming marines for some reason, that is also when you'll want to use BCs. A decent raven count is crucial to air vs air. They make a colossal difference. Whether or not your opponent spreads his vikings, HSM is going to be extremely good. Drop some PDDS before the engagement to buy time for the ravens and then spam HSM as much as possible. The ravens are going to die for sure but the amount of damage you can cause with them more than pays for their cost. Having a few thors sprinkled in to focus fire clumps of vikings is also extremely beneficial. In the end it's quite a rock/paper/scissors game in air vs air tvt. BCs > Thors > Vikings > BCs All things ideal, I feel that it's the usage of ravens that determines the victor. Edit: I suppose I should add that i'm thinking of this from a mech perspective whereby if the marine/tank player switches into mass marine after losing the air battle, I switch into hellion/siege tank/battlecruiser with some vikings. | ||
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saaaa
Germany419 Posts
On January 24 2012 05:28 saaaa wrote: How do i scout a zerg exactly? Against protoss i know do the following scouting and it works really well i always know what the protoss does - it's like: first scv scout after baracks and scout gas and chronoboost second poke with the hidden scv at 4:35 if i see the stalker at my base at 6:00 send the scv to scout the expansion and maybe his tech etc.. otherwise i scan his base ---- But i don't know how it exactly works against zerg. I know i should scout if they mine over 100 Gas or not? but when should i scout this? Should i just sacrifice my first 2 hellions to see if there's a baneling nest, he mined over 100 gas or he already has a roach warren? What are the exact timings of my "scouting"? anyone? | ||
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Huggerz
Great Britain919 Posts
Otherwise, best way to scout a Zerg is forcing him to show units - moving out on the map into his vision and scanning his front, or dropping in his base and quickly look for tech, things like that | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
ugh.. basicly, check the gas timing with the first scout, the opening ( hatch first or pool first ) and if you can ( not always the case ) if he's still mining gas after the first 100. Second scout is when your hellion come at his front door near 5:30 / 6:00. At this time you can check if there's roaches or not. Put turret for Muta at 11min if you're unsure of what tech choice he chose. ( later if you see roaches ) It's not that important to scout what zerg is doing in comparaison to protoss. Because zerg can't hide tech as much, and you are usualy the one on the offensive, so they have to reveal what choice they made pretty quickly in a game. The only important scouting timing is the Hive timing. Scan their main ( or nat if the lair is here ) at around 17min is a good time. But during midgame, marine tanks medivac should be able to deal with everything with little to no adjustement. | ||
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Wrathsc2
United States2025 Posts
i know its ez to execute and i can probably do it myself but it would be nice to know for sure. | ||
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VoO
Germany278 Posts
On January 25 2012 05:51 radiantshadow92 wrote: hey guys ive been looking all over the place for a solid 1/1/1 build against protoss on xelnaga to no avail. touneys dont use the map so i never see 1/1/1 on it so i was hoping someone would post the build order for me here on a replay. thank you! i know its ez to execute and i can probably do it myself but it would be nice to know for sure. There isn't too much difference from the standard I guess. The BoxeR/Incontrol game is the only I know of. | ||
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NewbieOne
Poland560 Posts
On January 24 2012 02:50 Zombo Joe wrote: What's the correct response to this mass ling TvZ metagame? Every time I push out to do pressure or I do drops, his upgraded zerglings just rape all my army cost efficiently. Then he techs to Infestors and completely crushes me with Ultras because his army twice as big and my Tanks are no longer effective. I feel like I have to keep doing marine drops all game long and starve him to death if it ever gets to that point and I'm still alive. Do I need to take map control with Blue Flame Hellions and then do a midgame push so he doesn't get out of control? I tend to favour hellion/thor for the reason you mention. No sieging, no getting caught off position (so much), no friendly fire and thors are hardy enough to survive while BFH mop the floor. Thors may die to investors (true story) but not really hellion/thor. Striking cannon will kill ultras cost-efficiently with good micro. And handling mutas is easier. Handling broodlings isn't all that difficult either (BFH fry broodlings while thors focus-fire the broodlords, especially if clustered) Plus, a buncha thors can still bite into stationary defences more than competently, they don't lack the muscle. Attacking chokes with it is cool, too, just need to have some scans saved to avoid getting hit from upcliff. Then, you can always grab 30 SCVs along on auto-repair. Getting a bunch of tanks instead of a couple of excess thors is probably superior gameplay (and results in pretty much Goody style mech) but may be more burdensome to handle. | ||
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awakenx
United States341 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
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Ziken
Ghana1743 Posts
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