EPTAlso! In tvp always get your eng bay up at 6:40, as this is when dt's can appear in the game
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ThirDilemma
64 Posts
Also! In tvp always get your eng bay up at 6:40, as this is when dt's can appear in the game | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
- 1/1/1 all-in if toss goes for a early nexus. I really like this build because vs 4gates/blink all-in/dt/voidray is just an auto win :D I hate to be that guy... but really? Fast nexus/1 gate FE is a direct counter to 1-1-1. People give some downright odd 'advice' in this thread. I almost think it should be a mandatory thing to post your ranking, level, and points. ...again 2000! A helpful timing to remember in tvz is mutas should pop at around 11:30. Also! In tvp always get your eng bay up at 6:40, as this is when dt's can appear in the game Those are some fucking LATE mutas. Mutas pop anywhere, pending pressure, from ~9:00-10:30 dude. And DTs can HIT at 6:40 ish, so you want ebay down at 6 minutes. Although, in many builds, a 6 minute ebay just isn't worth it, as you don't have to gas to utilize it. Should be more like you scout 2 gas protoss, no FE by 6 or so (about the time a DT expo will be dropping an expo) then you drop an ebay and a turret. | ||
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saaaa
Germany419 Posts
i want to do my TvZ more flexible than now. I know always play the 2 Fac Reactor Hellion into TMM (Mvp Style) and it works quite nice but i want a build that is more flexible on my scouting infos etc.. for example against protoss i always do a 1rax FE but it depends on the opponents build if I do a 2 MediVac, +1, StimPack, Conc timining push or a 2 ghost timing push. In fact, i saw that puma followed the 2 Reactor Hellion Push with Thor+BF Hellion but when i should do this... if my opponent is going for the standard Muta+Ling+Bling? if my opponent is going for Infestor+Ling? if my opponent is going for MASS roaches? if my opponent just build some roaches? my thoughts till now: against the muta composition you can play TMM or Thor+BF Hellion but i would say that the second is better.. against Infestor+Ling i would prefer TMM with fast Ghost and Drops against MASS roaches i really dont know.. against some roaches just play TMM with some maradaur as support? I'm just plat so be nice please ^^ | ||
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5unrise
New Zealand646 Posts
On December 30 2011 05:25 ThirDilemma wrote: 2000! A helpful timing to remember in tvz is mutas should pop at around 11:30. Also! In tvp always get your eng bay up at 6:40, as this is when dt's can appear in the game Mutas can pop any time after 9 minutes man... the best defence against them is always to scan for the spire | ||
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BlommaN
Sweden19 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On December 30 2011 06:39 iAmJeffReY wrote: I hate to be that guy... but really? Fast nexus/1 gate FE is a direct counter to 1-1-1. Only if you wait too long before attacking. I've seen ThorZaIN win against Nexus first with 1-1-1; if I remember correctly, he attacked around 8'30 instead of the usual later timing. Of course, if you wait until 10' or 11', you will be crushed. | ||
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BlitzerSC
Italy8800 Posts
On December 30 2011 06:39 iAmJeffReY wrote: I hate to be that guy... but really? Fast nexus/1 gate FE is a direct counter to 1-1-1. People give some downright odd 'advice' in this thread. I almost think it should be a mandatory thing to post your ranking, level, and points. I don't need to post my level, ranking and point. Just watch Puma doing a 1/1/1 most of the time he still wins even if the toss went for fast nexus. Maybe you should post your rank ? -.-" | ||
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GzStrom
South Africa51 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
Honestly though a 1 rax gasless fe isnt that far behind nex 1st eco wise so id stick with that. | ||
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spbelky
United States623 Posts
On December 30 2011 06:39 iAmJeffReY wrote: I hate to be that guy... but really? Fast nexus/1 gate FE is a direct counter to 1-1-1. People give some downright odd 'advice' in this thread. I almost think it should be a mandatory thing to post your ranking, level, and points. ...again Those are some fucking LATE mutas. Mutas pop anywhere, pending pressure, from ~9:00-10:30 dude. And DTs can HIT at 6:40 ish, so you want ebay down at 6 minutes. Although, in many builds, a 6 minute ebay just isn't worth it, as you don't have to gas to utilize it. Should be more like you scout 2 gas protoss, no FE by 6 or so (about the time a DT expo will be dropping an expo) then you drop an ebay and a turret. Hate to be what guy? The guy who uses his superior knowledge and experience to correct someone else's misinformation? I love that guy! I'm pretty sure most people like the guy who corrects people in a non-condescending manner... Be that guy Jeffrey, and be proud of it. Anyway, on to my simple question, though I fear it may require a not so simple answer: What are the best ways of correctly identifying an aggressive (all in or not) "6gate"? as opposed to just an expanding toss who has six gateways... and perhaps a tech structure somewhere my scouts/scans have missed. Expanding on that question, what is to stop the Protoss from just having 6 gateways, proxy pylons on the map, applying a little bit of pressure, but in reality be teching behind it. Meanwhile I've thrown up quite a few bunkers and kept scvs at the ready for his 6gate. At what point should I know that he isn't actually "6gating" me and what is the best response? | ||
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Recognizable
Netherlands1552 Posts
What are the best ways of correctly identifying an aggressive (all in or not) "6gate"? as opposed to just an expanding toss who has six gateways... and perhaps a tech structure somewhere my scouts/scans have missed. Scout if he has a 3rd going up. Expanding on that question, what is to stop the Protoss from just having 6 gateways, proxy pylons on the map, applying a little bit of pressure, but in reality be teching behind it. Meanwhile I've thrown up quite a few bunkers and kept scvs at the ready for his 6gate. At what point should I know that he isn't actually "6gating" me and what is the best response? Scan his main, see if he techs or scout if he's going for an expo. He will usually back off, so scout with a marine in front of you bunkers to see if his army is still there so your scv's aren't idling for nothing next to the bunker | ||
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AcesAnoka
Belgium262 Posts
Is there anything i can do in TvP lategame? the toss simply outproduces me, even when i'm on 16raxes and more... I'm dia if it matters to you | ||
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Nightshake
France412 Posts
On December 31 2011 03:57 anoka wrote: I can easily win vs a protoss using cheesy tactics or midgame timings, but whenever i get into the lategame (20+ warpgates) and the 2 deathballs collide, i can take the deathball out, but then i get struck by 20 warpgate reinforcements. Is there anything i can do in TvP lategame? the toss simply outproduces me, even when i'm on 16raxes and more... I'm dia if it matters to you You have to consider that 3-3 Bio crushes buildings, much faster than 0-0. But that's the only thing I can say... You just have to micro well but there is not that much to do... | ||
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c0se
Germany148 Posts
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GuiRao
Spain29 Posts
http://sc2rep.com/replays/download?id=16995 | ||
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AcesAnoka
Belgium262 Posts
On December 31 2011 04:27 c0se wrote: Build more Marauder/Ghosts instead of Marines. Ghosts are really good in high numbers (12+) and with 3/3. Take all Gas on your Expos and you can afford alot Marauder/Ghost and skip Marines instead. Marines die too quickly to Storm/Collosus/Archon. Hey, I go really marauder heavy, but i only take about 6 ghosts, is that my fatal flaw you think? | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On December 31 2011 02:42 GzStrom wrote: Anecdotal evidence of a game a pro used 1 build vs another and won means very little besides 'its possible', 1/1/1 tends to come down to control mostly & puma is a 1/1/1 god. Most masters toss players I know consider nexus 1st to be very good vs 1/1/1 It's a matter of timing. Attacking too late = freelose. Attacking earlier than expected with Bunkers and Tanks with Siege Mode (instead of delaying it) can definitely work. Your opponent will have to get at least 2 Obs because of Banshees (he has to assume Cloak, otherwise he might lose straightaway), which will delay his Immortals, which should allow you to establish a good Bunker push on his natural. Then it comes down to micro, etc. On December 31 2011 03:07 spbelky wrote: What are the best ways of correctly identifying an aggressive (all in or not) "6gate"? as opposed to just an expanding toss who has six gateways... and perhaps a tech structure somewhere my scouts/scans have missed. Expanding on that question, what is to stop the Protoss from just having 6 gateways, proxy pylons on the map, applying a little bit of pressure, but in reality be teching behind it. Meanwhile I've thrown up quite a few bunkers and kept scvs at the ready for his 6gate. At what point should I know that he isn't actually "6gating" me and what is the best response? This is definitely tricky, but here are some signs: 1. Army composition: Mostly Zealots/Sentries by early game; he has to build up his energy count since Forcefields and Guardian Shield are the key in his push. Since he invests his gas in Sentries and takes late gases on his natural, he will have few or no Stalkers before he moves out to try to kill you (e. g. MC vs MVP on TDA @ MLG Providence). 2. Late gases on the natural (perhaps around 8'30), fewer Probes than usual (they will cut Probes around 40). I may add 3. no Robo and thefore no Immortal and no Observer; though noticing the lack of those units is definitely tricky, especially for the Observer, it's an additional sign. (Besides, from what I watched, Protoss are very often on 5GR when they go Colossi, not 6GR.) Knowing if he will commit or not comes down to: a) your scouting — e. g. have a Marine somewhere around the map to check if he's going a third, or have your Factory float over his base to see if he went double Forge and Council behind his pressure, etc. b) his degree of agressivity; basically, if he's all-in, he will not wait too long before trying to kill you. Sure, he may pick bunkers and retreat while warping additional rounds of whatever he needs, but as time should be against him he will not wait too long. If he's pressuring for too long, it should mean he's teching something behind his 6-gate. There should be a SaSe vs SeleCT game @ DreamHack Winter (?) showing this. I can easily win vs a protoss using cheesy tactics or midgame timings, but whenever i get into the lategame (20+ warpgates) and the 2 deathballs collide, i can take the deathball out, but then i get struck by 20 warpgate reinforcements. Is there anything i can do in TvP lategame? the toss simply outproduces me, even when i'm on 16raxes and more... Have a heavily-defended position in which you can retreat. This is the most important thing. If you don't have PF/bunkers/etc. to fall back on, retard warp-ins will kill you even if you have many Barracks. Build additional Ghost Academies, get Cloak if you don't alreavy have it and start nuking his expands/tech/Warpgates. Build macro OCs and progressively get rid of some of your SCVs so you have a bigger army size than him. | ||
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metcw
United States28 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On December 31 2011 05:03 metcw wrote: If I want to go for reactor helions in TVZ and then get a quick third CC for macro, when should I put down the CC and what should I follow it up with? As soon as possible, i. e. before you get extra Barracks (if you head for Marine/Tanks), but you should first check if he's going a Spine or not. I'd advise to get 6 Hellions when you go this third CC, you don't want to lose map control because of some random Zergling swarm while you're building a Supply depot. Follow-ups are up to you, depends if you want Tanks straightaway (delaying Tanks is not the safest way to play, though), or earlier Medivacs, etc. Generally, I see things such as +3 Barracks (one on the former Reactored Fact) and Lab on Fact. | ||
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Kyokai
Canada19 Posts
I really like playing bio in TvZ but I always end up dying to mass speedlings and banelings. Everytime Zerg just overruns my forces and I end up dying really badly. This always happens at the early game 3 rax push and I lose all my forces. Then he counterattacks me and I die. Any suggestions? | ||
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