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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. |
On October 13 2011 07:53 Quochobao wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2011 02:05 QTIP. wrote:On October 13 2011 01:34 UmbeXCII wrote:On October 13 2011 01:32 Teoita wrote:On October 13 2011 01:23 UmbeXCII wrote:
how do you seriously beat the 111?
I usually open 2 gas 1 gate FE, fallowed by 2 more gates and a robo but even though i know a 111 is coming i don't know how i'm really supposed to stop it.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=250379First result from searching "defending 1-1-1". The search function is your friend  I searched "how to beat 111" and "111"...didn't think about "1-1-1" lol Thank you, hope it will help Let me know if you have any questions ^^ Sigh... I actually have questions about the 1-1-1. So am I supposed to keep 2 obs at home just to defend against banshee harass? It seems inevitable, but that's so... UNFAIR to build 2 obs and yet cannot afford to keep one at his base. What if he changes plan or something? >.< I just want to confirm...
Others may do it differently, but personally I build 2 obs and only keep 1 at home. I just make a 50/50 guess which base he'll attack with cloaked banshees. Most players now don't even get cloak. If I can confirm cloak though, I will chrono out a 3rd obs. If he gets lucky and attacks the base without an obs, the damage 1 cloaked banshee can do when I have an obs in the other base is not that big.
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I been doing the 3 gate sentry expand for a while but I got bored. So right now im trying to learn the forge fast expand. Can somebody tell me the optimal build in patch 1.4? but most importantly I need to know what is the correct building placement and if somebody would like to upload a photo of the best building placement in each map of the current map pool it would be great for all of us protoss players. I also heard day9 saying you should throw down the gateway before the first cannon so a build that follows that would be great. Any advice is help full
Thanks in advance
Greetings from Mexico
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On October 13 2011 08:10 eduardodelagarza wrote:
I been doing the 3 gate sentry expand for a while but I got bored. So right now im trying to learn the forge fast expand. Can somebody tell me the optimal build in patch 1.4? but most importantly I need to know what is the correct building placement and if somebody would like to upload a photo of the best building placement in each map of the current map pool it would be great for all of us protoss players. I also heard day9 saying you should throw down the gateway before the first cannon so a build that follows that would be great. Any advice is help full
Thanks in advance
Greetings from Mexico
This is all depending on how safe you want to play, or how much greed you can get away with. The normal safe build is as follows:
9 pylon (scout)
13 forge (scout)
17 nexus
17 gate
17 cannon
17 pylon
Or something along those lines. Some people prefer to get their 18th probe earlier, or the pylon before the gate etc. The build sets you up safely and with a decently fast gate. The other build is nexus first which is far more greedy and looks something like:
9 pylon (scout)
15 nexus
15 forge
17 gate
17 cannon
17 pylon
Usually this is done either on 2 player maps or when you scout your opponent fast. That's because you need to be safe against early pool. That's also the reason you send 2 scouting probes with the first variation; you need another scout to be sure to see it in time so you can either wall off on maps like shakuras plateau or put a pylon in your mineral line on maps like xel naga caverns.
If you know what you can get away with things like 17 nexus 17 forge etc is possible but I wouldn't recommend it if you don't have all timings and scouting down to perfection. The gateway before cannon part isn't actually that important though, it's all about how fast you want to tech against how safe or economic you want to play. For example i can get a cannon on 17 and then the pylon, making probes and making the gate later on when I can afford it with constant probe production. The problem is that most current PvZ strategies after a forge FE relies on some kind of tech (void rays, 6gate etc).
As for the actual building placement it is possible to figure it out yourself. Most players don't do it the same way as others because there's no optimal solution on a lot of maps. This thread can help you a bit on the way http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=221763. Maybe someone else got a good answer as well.
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United States8476 Posts
On October 13 2011 08:10 eduardodelagarza wrote:
I been doing the 3 gate sentry expand for a while but I got bored. So right now im trying to learn the forge fast expand. Can somebody tell me the optimal build in patch 1.4? but most importantly I need to know what is the correct building placement and if somebody would like to upload a photo of the best building placement in each map of the current map pool it would be great for all of us protoss players. I also heard day9 saying you should throw down the gateway before the first cannon so a build that follows that would be great. Any advice is help full
Thanks in advance
Greetings from Mexico
This thread has a lot of the answers you seek:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=269312
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I have been getting absolutely smashed in PvZ lately. Like, smashed every single game.
As far as openers go, I try and 1gate expand but if I see an early gas then I 3gate to avoid getting overwhelmed by speedlings.
I understand how to FFE on every map, but I don't like doing it. Unless I think I can catch somebody going hatch first and cannon them with it, I avoid it as giving Zerg a free 3rd and 60 drones isn't my cup of tea.
Once I have my 2 bases, I go with a variation of builds. If I feel like the guy is greedy I do a 7gate +1 attack with just the 2 gas at my main and about ~40-45 probes. If I 3gate expand I am more likely to get hallucination and try and play based on his build (gateway push for a quick 3rd/robo for a roach warren).
Assuming I either go robo or snipe his third with my 7gate and then transition to robo, I have a real trouble at this juncture.
Taking my 3rd seems nearly impossible against good Zergs, as they just flood me with units and I can't keep my colossus or sentry count high enough off 2bases worth of gas/buildings to trade efficiently for long.
Any advice for that would be appreciated.
If I make it past my 3rd and into the lategame, I usually get stomped in the endgame by Broodlords. I keep equal/ahead on bases with the Zerg and upgrade as quickly as I can. However, I usually get stuck on 3/4 base with ~10+ gateways and ~2+ robos. I scout the hive going up and immediately start double void ray, but if he sacks a corrupter/roach army first then I don't have enough voids for his broods and I have to remax on mostly stalkers because his remax is so fast I can't wait for colossus. This basically ends up with him hitting me again with roaches/broodlords on top. At this point, I always lose. Don't think I have ever beaten Zerg after he gets out broodlords.
Any help for microing/preventing/comping against broodlords? I don't necessarily want to hear "just go HT" or something unless there's some thought behind it, as I think storm is pretty iffy in most situations against Zerg and I typically don't feel comfortable putting that much gas into templar tech when he has a million roaches.
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United States8476 Posts
On October 13 2011 10:12 hunger wrote:
I have been getting absolutely smashed in PvZ lately. Like, smashed every single game.
As far as openers go, I try and 1gate expand but if I see an early gas then I 3gate to avoid getting overwhelmed by speedlings.
I understand how to FFE on every map, but I don't like doing it. Unless I think I can catch somebody going hatch first and cannon them with it, I avoid it as giving Zerg a free 3rd and 60 drones isn't my cup of tea.
Once I have my 2 bases, I go with a variation of builds. If I feel like the guy is greedy I do a 7gate +1 attack with just the 2 gas at my main and about ~40-45 probes. If I 3gate expand I am more likely to get hallucination and try and play based on his build (gateway push for a quick 3rd/robo for a roach warren).
Assuming I either go robo or snipe his third with my 7gate and then transition to robo, I have a real trouble at this juncture.
Taking my 3rd seems nearly impossible against good Zergs, as they just flood me with units and I can't keep my colossus or sentry count high enough off 2bases worth of gas/buildings to trade efficiently for long.
Any advice for that would be appreciated.
If I make it past my 3rd and into the lategame, I usually get stomped in the endgame by Broodlords. I keep equal/ahead on bases with the Zerg and upgrade as quickly as I can. However, I usually get stuck on 3/4 base with ~10+ gateways and ~2+ robos. I scout the hive going up and immediately start double void ray, but if he sacks a corrupter/roach army first then I don't have enough voids for his broods and I have to remax on mostly stalkers because his remax is so fast I can't wait for colossus. This basically ends up with him hitting me again with roaches/broodlords on top. At this point, I always lose. Don't think I have ever beaten Zerg after he gets out broodlords.
Any help for microing/preventing/comping against broodlords? I don't necessarily want to hear "just go HT" or something unless there's some thought behind it, as I think storm is pretty iffy in most situations against Zerg and I typically don't feel comfortable putting that much gas into templar tech when he has a million roaches.
Post a replay if you want the best help possible. It sounds like there's more fundamental problems than you're describing. While you get that replay up, check out this thread:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=269312
It has a lot of the simple answers to simple protoss questions.
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On October 13 2011 10:36 NrGmonk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2011 10:12 hunger wrote:
I have been getting absolutely smashed in PvZ lately. Like, smashed every single game.
As far as openers go, I try and 1gate expand but if I see an early gas then I 3gate to avoid getting overwhelmed by speedlings.
I understand how to FFE on every map, but I don't like doing it. Unless I think I can catch somebody going hatch first and cannon them with it, I avoid it as giving Zerg a free 3rd and 60 drones isn't my cup of tea.
Once I have my 2 bases, I go with a variation of builds. If I feel like the guy is greedy I do a 7gate +1 attack with just the 2 gas at my main and about ~40-45 probes. If I 3gate expand I am more likely to get hallucination and try and play based on his build (gateway push for a quick 3rd/robo for a roach warren).
Assuming I either go robo or snipe his third with my 7gate and then transition to robo, I have a real trouble at this juncture.
Taking my 3rd seems nearly impossible against good Zergs, as they just flood me with units and I can't keep my colossus or sentry count high enough off 2bases worth of gas/buildings to trade efficiently for long.
Any advice for that would be appreciated.
If I make it past my 3rd and into the lategame, I usually get stomped in the endgame by Broodlords. I keep equal/ahead on bases with the Zerg and upgrade as quickly as I can. However, I usually get stuck on 3/4 base with ~10+ gateways and ~2+ robos. I scout the hive going up and immediately start double void ray, but if he sacks a corrupter/roach army first then I don't have enough voids for his broods and I have to remax on mostly stalkers because his remax is so fast I can't wait for colossus. This basically ends up with him hitting me again with roaches/broodlords on top. At this point, I always lose. Don't think I have ever beaten Zerg after he gets out broodlords.
Any help for microing/preventing/comping against broodlords? I don't necessarily want to hear "just go HT" or something unless there's some thought behind it, as I think storm is pretty iffy in most situations against Zerg and I typically don't feel comfortable putting that much gas into templar tech when he has a million roaches. Post a replay if you want the best help possible. It sounds like there's more fundamental problems than you're describing. While you get that replay up, check out this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=269312It has a lot of the simple answers to simple protoss questions.
Alright I will definitely search out some replays that are good examples and come back with them soon.
It definitely isn't a "Hey you only have 50 probes on 4 bases" or "Your build makes zero sense" kind of thing, so the thread (although great) doesn't have too much for me.
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as a scrubby gold level player I am having realy trouble against Terran when they turtle, and its really only in one scenario, I have no problems dealing with bunkered expansions or anything like that but in the early-mid game when I make my push with stalker-sentry-immortals I mop up easily out on the battlefield and really in any situation unless he has tanks sieged up on his high ground around his choke, some games i can get vision of the high ground with an obs or something of the sort and just kill the tanks with immortals but if hes turret'd up around his perimeter i cant get an air unit there long enough to give me high ground vision and even if i have him far and away in supply I just get crushed by tanks trying to go up his ramp, I usually make my push with +1 armor and 2 immortals and with guardian shield up but I still get shredded unless hes just really bad
any tips for a turtled terran, should I just hold the contain and macro up and just pound him with a death ball? It just seems like siege tank range is a little crazy
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United States8476 Posts
On October 13 2011 13:36 Big.E33 wrote:
as a scrubby gold level player I am having realy trouble against Terran when they turtle, and its really only in one scenario, I have no problems dealing with bunkered expansions or anything like that but in the early-mid game when I make my push with stalker-sentry-immortals I mop up easily out on the battlefield and really in any situation unless he has tanks sieged up on his high ground around his choke, some games i can get vision of the high ground with an obs or something of the sort and just kill the tanks with immortals but if hes turret'd up around his perimeter i cant get an air unit there long enough to give me high ground vision and even if i have him far and away in supply I just get crushed by tanks trying to go up his ramp, I usually make my push with +1 armor and 2 immortals and with guardian shield up but I still get shredded unless hes just really bad
any tips for a turtled terran, should I just hold the contain and macro up and just pound him with a death ball? It just seems like siege tank range is a little crazy
Don't think that you should be able to always kill him straight up. Instead, get more ahead by taking more bases.
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On October 13 2011 07:53 Quochobao wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2011 02:05 QTIP. wrote:On October 13 2011 01:34 UmbeXCII wrote:On October 13 2011 01:32 Teoita wrote:On October 13 2011 01:23 UmbeXCII wrote:
how do you seriously beat the 111?
I usually open 2 gas 1 gate FE, fallowed by 2 more gates and a robo but even though i know a 111 is coming i don't know how i'm really supposed to stop it.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=250379First result from searching "defending 1-1-1". The search function is your friend I searched "how to beat 111" and "111"...didn't think about "1-1-1" lol Thank you, hope it will help Let me know if you have any questions ^^ Sigh... I actually have questions about the 1-1-1. So am I supposed to keep 2 obs at home just to defend against banshee harass? It seems inevitable, but that's so... UNFAIR to build 2 obs and yet cannot afford to keep one at his base. What if he changes plan or something? >.< I just want to confirm...
One goes to his base to scout the unit composition as well as time he moves out - and the other observer stays at home to defend against cloaked banshee. You should be able to deny excessive banshee harass with a single Observer at home. Just make sure you split your stalkers/sentries, so you will always have something to shoot it as soon as it is visible.
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Question: In PvT, when doing either the 1 or 2 gas 1 gate FE, what is the correct responds to a 2 rax conc push? I personally add 2 gates while cutting probes and then use all saved chronos on gateways. I tend to have trouble if I went for the 2 gas varaition more so than the 1 gas.
Follow up question, what panic reaction is best if he tricks you into thinking a non 2 rax and then a 2 rax comes (starts depot before 2nd rax and/or starts a 2nd marine then cancels it before starting reactor etc)?
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On October 14 2011 00:30 vaderseven wrote:
Question: In PvT, when doing either the 1 or 2 gas 1 gate FE, what is the correct responds to a 2 rax conc push? I personally add 2 gates while cutting probes and then use all saved chronos on gateways. I tend to have trouble if I went for the 2 gas varaition more so than the 1 gas.
Follow up question, what panic reaction is best if he tricks you into thinking a non 2 rax and then a 2 rax comes (starts depot before 2nd rax and/or starts a 2nd marine then cancels it before starting reactor etc)?
That's pretty much the correct response. If you are unsure you reall want to add the additional gates before you make the 34 pylon. If he tricked you there's nothing you can do about it. Hopefully his trick will have delayed the 2rax enough for you to get out some units anyway. Making more gates after a 1gate FE should be in your build anyway if you want to play it safe.
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On October 14 2011 02:04 Latedi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 00:30 vaderseven wrote:
Question: In PvT, when doing either the 1 or 2 gas 1 gate FE, what is the correct responds to a 2 rax conc push? I personally add 2 gates while cutting probes and then use all saved chronos on gateways. I tend to have trouble if I went for the 2 gas varaition more so than the 1 gas.
Follow up question, what panic reaction is best if he tricks you into thinking a non 2 rax and then a 2 rax comes (starts depot before 2nd rax and/or starts a 2nd marine then cancels it before starting reactor etc)? That's pretty much the correct response. If you are unsure you reall want to add the additional gates before you make the 34 pylon. If he tricked you there's nothing you can do about it. Hopefully his trick will have delayed the 2rax enough for you to get out some units anyway. Making more gates after a 1gate FE should be in your build anyway if you want to play it safe.
I guess I should add some more pointed questions:
1. Is it ever ok to cancel the Nexus?
2. How many probes should you bring to the fight?
3. Exact desired unit comp.
4. Which is better, the 1 gas or 2 gas vs this (I think the 1 gas)?
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On October 14 2011 10:05 vaderseven wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 02:04 Latedi wrote:On October 14 2011 00:30 vaderseven wrote:
Question: In PvT, when doing either the 1 or 2 gas 1 gate FE, what is the correct responds to a 2 rax conc push? I personally add 2 gates while cutting probes and then use all saved chronos on gateways. I tend to have trouble if I went for the 2 gas varaition more so than the 1 gas.
Follow up question, what panic reaction is best if he tricks you into thinking a non 2 rax and then a 2 rax comes (starts depot before 2nd rax and/or starts a 2nd marine then cancels it before starting reactor etc)? That's pretty much the correct response. If you are unsure you reall want to add the additional gates before you make the 34 pylon. If he tricked you there's nothing you can do about it. Hopefully his trick will have delayed the 2rax enough for you to get out some units anyway. Making more gates after a 1gate FE should be in your build anyway if you want to play it safe. I guess I should add some more pointed questions: 1. Is it ever ok to cancel the Nexus? 2. How many probes should you bring to the fight? 3. Exact desired unit comp. 4. Which is better, the 1 gas or 2 gas vs this (I think the 1 gas)?
Everything Latedi said is correct in my opinion btw. By marauder push with concussive I'm assuming you're referring to 2 rax reactor first? Because 2 rax tech lab first can be easily handled with a 1 gate expand.
1) Kind of. If you absolutely have to, you won't be too far behind (as you get the 300 min back), however, know that this kind of rush isn't necessarily all in, and if he doesn't bring scvs, its likely he already has an economic lead and a CC landed.
2) Only as many as you're transferring, however, if he doesn't bring scvs, you shouldn't need probes, or at least, too many of them. Good forcefields and chronoed gates are all thats necessary to stop this push.
3) This is a tough one. You're going to want 3 sentries or so, about 3-5 stalkers to focus down the marauders then marines, and as many zealots as you can muster. Obviously you won't have all this in the beginning, but depending on how long you can delay it you might get to at least a few stalkers and a bunch of zealots.
4) 1 gas by far. Huk's build, in my opinion, can only be executed through using what I call Huk-fields, like he did in the game versus Nada game 2 on Xel Naga Fortress. Well you know I'm j/k but you get my point. 2 gas variant is very risky, sentry heavy and therefore very volatile.
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i m silver player, but tis is how i feel 
first replay: er yr warpg research finishes at around the right timing but yr first engagment nearly cost u yr army as yr zealots were at the back while yr stalkers are right in front. Logically i think, the red should have 1/2 and chomp yr army already. tts how i feel personally. ignore tis comment if u want
P.S. u did not on gs from yr sentries 
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On October 14 2011 10:40 xlava wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 10:05 vaderseven wrote:On October 14 2011 02:04 Latedi wrote:On October 14 2011 00:30 vaderseven wrote:
Question: In PvT, when doing either the 1 or 2 gas 1 gate FE, what is the correct responds to a 2 rax conc push? I personally add 2 gates while cutting probes and then use all saved chronos on gateways. I tend to have trouble if I went for the 2 gas varaition more so than the 1 gas.
Follow up question, what panic reaction is best if he tricks you into thinking a non 2 rax and then a 2 rax comes (starts depot before 2nd rax and/or starts a 2nd marine then cancels it before starting reactor etc)? That's pretty much the correct response. If you are unsure you reall want to add the additional gates before you make the 34 pylon. If he tricked you there's nothing you can do about it. Hopefully his trick will have delayed the 2rax enough for you to get out some units anyway. Making more gates after a 1gate FE should be in your build anyway if you want to play it safe. I guess I should add some more pointed questions: 1. Is it ever ok to cancel the Nexus? 2. How many probes should you bring to the fight? 3. Exact desired unit comp. 4. Which is better, the 1 gas or 2 gas vs this (I think the 1 gas)? Everything Latedi said is correct in my opinion btw. By marauder push with concussive I'm assuming you're referring to 2 rax reactor first? Because 2 rax tech lab first can be easily handled with a 1 gate expand. 1) Kind of. If you absolutely have to, you won't be too far behind (as you get the 300 min back), however, know that this kind of rush isn't necessarily all in, and if he doesn't bring scvs, its likely he already has an economic lead and a CC landed. 2) Only as many as you're transferring, however, if he doesn't bring scvs, you shouldn't need probes, or at least, too many of them. Good forcefields and chronoed gates are all thats necessary to stop this push. 3) This is a tough one. You're going to want 3 sentries or so, about 3-5 stalkers to focus down the marauders then marines, and as many zealots as you can muster. Obviously you won't have all this in the beginning, but depending on how long you can delay it you might get to at least a few stalkers and a bunch of zealots. 4) 1 gas by far. Huk's build, in my opinion, can only be executed through using what I call Huk-fields, like he did in the game versus Nada game 2 on Xel Naga Fortress. Well you know I'm j/k but you get my point. 2 gas variant is very risky, sentry heavy and therefore very volatile.
Yes I pretty much agree with this but I think it might be a good idea to focus the marines first under certain circumstances (mainly if the terran has no ability to kite you) to lower his damage output. This was previously mentioned in this thread as something Axslav does. But if terran can kite you I think marauders should be a priority for the stalkers to take down. In the end though, this will mean very small differences and I don't think micro like this will really affect anyone who doesn't have really smooth builds and good macro.
And about the 1gas or 2gas, 2gas might actually be a really good idea. Getting 2 geysers usually indicate that you want to tech on one base before you expand, pressure or all in. Terran cannot walk up your ramp with a 2rax if you are one basing unless he wants to get forcefielded and lose his army, which let's your attack be that much stronger. This is however only a mind game and therefore a bit risky, don't forget to deny scouting.
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Sorry if that has been posted already, but I need help with the 3-gate expand playing versus Terran. My problem isn't so much with the build order, but when to expand. I go in and scout what hes doing after I build my pylon or gate, I react to his build accordingly to what I see. After he kills my probe though I have no form of scouting; his base is completely walled off. Now, can anyone help with finding the right timing to expand with this build? Because usually he just waits until I ty to expand and then all-ins me or does a drop in.
Heres a situation that I have encountered.
I preform the standard 3-gate -> I move in with a pylon outside his ramp at about 6:30-7:00 -> he retreats in his base (now from about 4 minutes I have no idea what he has started because he has killed my scout probe and I have no way into his base) -> I encounter his ramp and see that I am losing so I go on with the containment strategy (now this is when I always expand, when I have him contained) -> most terran usually do the 1/1/1 so by now he is probably harrasing or has already harrassed with banshees or drop-ins so I am forced to pull my army back because I dont want to risk losing any units if he decides to storm out of his ramp. (also if I am too close to the ramp he will just make siege tanks making forcefields nearly impossible)
I usually lose at this point because he knows he is behind and he brings nearly all of his SCV's to push against me. And it works everytime! I get so angry being terran all-inned!
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Italy12246 Posts
On October 14 2011 21:24 PresdantKush wrote:
Sorry if that has been posted already, but I need help with the 3-gate expand playing versus Terran. My problem isn't so much with the build order, but when to expand. I go in and scout what hes doing after I build my pylon or gate, I react to his build accordingly to what I see. After he kills my probe though I have no form of scouting; his base is completely walled off. Now, can anyone help with finding the right timing to expand with this build? Because usually he just waits until I ty to expand and then all-ins me or does a drop in.
Heres a situation that I have encountered.
I preform the standard 3-gate -> I move in with a pylon outside his ramp at about 6:30-7:00 -> he retreats in his base (now from about 4 minutes I have no idea what he has started because he has killed my scout probe and I have no way into his base) -> I encounter his ramp and see that I am losing so I go on with the containment strategy (now this is when I always expand, when I have him contained) -> most terran usually do the 1/1/1 so by now he is probably harrasing or has already harrassed with banshees or drop-ins so I am forced to pull my army back because I dont want to risk losing any units if he decides to storm out of his ramp. (also if I am too close to the ramp he will just make siege tanks making forcefields nearly impossible)
I usually lose at this point because he knows he is behind and he brings nearly all of his SCV's to push against me. And it works everytime! I get so angry being terran all-inned!
Expanding after your first weave of units from warpgates is usually safe as at that point you have enough units to hold off 2rax aggression, and anything threatening really.
If you scout something that looks like a tech build (lots of marines when you poke up his ramp and you saw him taking his gas; bunker at his ramp etc), don't 3gate expand, but 1gate expand instead. It sounds like you expand after you contain, which is actually REALLY late and at that point you might as well try to 4gate.
The reason most players suggest 1gate expanding vs tech allins is that terran on 1base will have a lot more units than p on 1base due to mules; if you expand that late (I guess after 7 minutes?) by the time he all-ins your nexus hasn't even paid off for itself yet and you just die because he attacks at the perfect timing; on the other hand, if you 1gate fe your nexus has been up for a long time and you can overwhelm his push with gateway units from 4-5 gates and a few immortals, thanks to your much superior econ.
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I am wondering, why many (pro) players still 4gate in PvP after patch 1.4. I saw HuK and MC both do this (huk on antiga) on maps with tiny ramps that can now be forcefielded by any decent player. Since i never liked 4gating anyway, I have now been trying to do this build order/opening
9 pylon
13 gateway (scout now, 2x chrono)
15 assimilator
15 assimilator
16 pylon (super slight probe cut)
18 (not 17!) cybercore
when core finishes chrono 3 sentrys, do not chrono warpgate
around 19 1x crhono probes and pylon
from now on it becomes slightly fluid, i follow this up with 1 robo 2x immortal and another gate
expand at around 7:30, after that i usually transition into colossi going the route stalker/sentry/immortal -> colossus zealot stalker with charge and +1
i found it easy to hold any 4gate just because i can have 3 sentrys by the time it hits with WG almost finished and 2 gates worth of potential sentry production. If my opponent decides to expand behind the contain, i will most likely just destroy him with sentry/stalker immortal.
Anyway, does anything come to your mind, this build would just lose to or have a major disadvantage against?
I'm platinum btw.
Thanks in advance
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EPT
