EPT[G] QTIP’s guide to defending the 1-1-1 (PvT) - Page 9
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dinosaurcow
United States31 Posts
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Govou
Canada1072 Posts
http://www.playxp.com/sc2/gosureplays/view.php?article_id=3277407 I know most of you guys dont read korean but he doesnt really explain it neither. Just offered his replays. how to download: click '원원원.sc2replays' and other ***.sc2replays at top part of your screen. I'm not a competitive player nor a protoss player. I did not watch the replays myself yet but from the comments it looks legit and a real easy build against 1-1-1. | ||
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L3g3nd_
New Zealand10461 Posts
On August 12 2011 13:06 Govou wrote: a new build just came about in korea specifically designed to counter 1-1-1. Here are some replays of korean protoss player using that build. I hear this guy is 5th in Grand Master in Korea and is Zenex player. http://www.playxp.com/sc2/gosureplays/view.php?article_id=3277407 I know most of you guys dont read korean but he doesnt really explain it neither. Just offered his replays. how to download: click '원원원.sc2replays' and other ***.sc2replays at top part of your screen. I'm not a competitive player nor a protoss player. I did not watch the replays myself yet but from the comments it looks legit and a real easy build against 1-1-1. it was just a one base collosus build, which isnt really that optimal, as if he scouts no expansion, the T should just expand himself. | ||
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Dsn4001
Korea (South)106 Posts
On August 12 2011 13:06 Govou wrote: a new build just came about in korea specifically designed to counter 1-1-1. Here are some replays of korean protoss player using that build. I hear this guy is 5th in Grand Master in Korea and is Zenex player. http://www.playxp.com/sc2/gosureplays/view.php?article_id=3277407 I know most of you guys dont read korean but he doesnt really explain it neither. Just offered his replays. how to download: click '원원원.sc2replays' and other ***.sc2replays at top part of your screen. I'm not a competitive player nor a protoss player. I did not watch the replays myself yet but from the comments it looks legit and a real easy build against 1-1-1. Most of the people talking about the build says this build only should really be done if its close positions and fast expanding is far too risky. Otherwise most are still saying fast expanding and going 5/6 gate + robo is the best way to defend 1/1/1. | ||
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ins(out)side
220 Posts
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DoubleDouble
United States106 Posts
On August 12 2011 19:59 ins(out)side wrote: Yowza! Who saw Puzzle hold the the 1-1-1 banshee all in with a robo, stargate, and an expansion? It was effin CRAZY! Any high level players want to comment on it? not a high level player but siege mode wasnt even finished and he sniped 2 banshees before the terran even moved out? it was more of asdfou messing up on the all in rather than puzzle doing amazing holding it off. | ||
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chipman
United States139 Posts
I think protoss lost 1 phoenix and maybe 1 zealot for 3 banshees and a tank before the big engagement even happened lol. | ||
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chauder
United States4 Posts
Here are some replays: http://www.sc-replay.com/replay/10-08-11/169626-RRose-VS-unx.html?justUp=1 http://www.sc-replay.com/replay/11-08-11/169628-unx-VS-왕봉추.html?justUp=1 http://www.sc-replay.com/replay/09-08-11/166166-unx-VS-최주오엠지.html let me know what you think of this counter build | ||
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On August 12 2011 21:09 chauder wrote: hello, mid-high NA masters here. I been holding off 1-1-1 all-ins on the korean(diamond) ladder with 1 or 2 gate 1 robo opening into 3 gate 1 robo 1 stargate play if i scout the all-in. I had a lot of success with this build, the difference from my build & puzzle's(gstl 8/12) is that I don't get any stalkers i depend on my phoenix to kill any banshee's. Doing that I have a stronger anti-ground army to crush the push. This build is a little micro intensive with the phoenix, force-fields, & target firing immortals (if tanks aren't lifted by phoenix). Here are some replays: http://www.sc-replay.com/replay/10-08-11/169626-RRose-VS-unx.html?justUp=1 http://www.sc-replay.com/replay/11-08-11/169628-unx-VS-왕봉추.html?justUp=1 http://www.sc-replay.com/replay/09-08-11/166166-unx-VS-최주오엠지.html let me know what you think of this counter build It's been discussed before, 1 base play is not the way to go against this because what if the terran decides not to attack and just expand instead? | ||
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Jumbled
1543 Posts
On August 12 2011 22:53 Anihc wrote: It's been discussed before, 1 base play is not the way to go against this because what if the terran decides not to attack and just expand instead? Surely that's not an issue unless the Terran can establish a contain, and presumably any viable 1-base build would be designed to prevent/break that. | ||
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mordek
United States12704 Posts
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On August 13 2011 00:10 Jumbled wrote: Surely that's not an issue unless the Terran can establish a contain, and presumably any viable 1-base build would be designed to prevent/break that. I still think it's an issue. The terran can decide to expand instead of attacking and start his expansion way before yours. It's difficult to scout because he can build it in base and deny obs scouting with raven. Then you will be behind in both econ and tech, and protoss armies without tech (i.e. colossus or ht) scale horribly with terran armies. | ||
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QTIP.
United States2113 Posts
On August 13 2011 00:35 mordek wrote: Of all the discussion I've seen on this topic, this one is by far the best. Thanks OP. Thanks ^_^ glad to see it was helpful. | ||
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fadestep
United States605 Posts
Should I make a thread + replay or is that not OK since there is already a discussion about it here and people probably can't tell me anything new? | ||
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Erik.TheRed
United States1655 Posts
moved question to "help me" thread. | ||
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Xahhk
Canada540 Posts
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AA.spoon
Belgium331 Posts
If you see 3-4 marines at this point and they take out your probe instantly, you should be wary of a banshee opening Or it could be 1rax reactor expand, or 2 rax. If you see a marauder / reaper (by luck) you can breathe a sigh of relief, the chances of a 1-1-1 coming just dropped by about 99% actually quite some terrans do 1 rax marauder or 2 rax play into marine/maruader/tank/banshee allin. That is how theBest qualified for code A.There was also a game of Huk vs a terran in GSL on xelanga fortress (tough Huk won). It might sound counterintuitive, I guess the terran hopes to metagame there opponent. Back at your base, I strongly suggest you open with Stalker-sentry-sentry (stolen from MC). The initial stalker will quickly deal with the scouting SCV, and two sentries are sufficient in holding 2 rax pressure before your WG finishes this 1 gate expo build dies so hard vs 2 rax its not even funny. For reference xelnaga caverns bomber vs MC @dreamhack. The idea behind this opening is knowing that you can skimp on units. If you sense the 1-1-1 coming, he will try to deny scouting (possibly a bunker) and will have no effective units (marines, unsieged tanks) to deny your expansion. The only thing that you have to worry about is banshees. This is wrong. There is also a very popular build which looks like the 1-1-1 build: 8 marine drop +4 hellions. Goody and TLO do it all the time. You need alot of units vs this if you expo. If you are very confident in your micro and unit control, many advanced players will attempt to pick off units as the push approaches (forcing multiple siege/unsieges, and buying additional time). This is essential imo.The big trouble vs this build: You see it coming, stop at 32 probes, produce immortal + units out of 5gates, and I still only have 30-40% win ratio vs this. On some maps, its ridiculous (close air meta e.g.). You forget to speak about bunkers. Terran build like 3 bunkers and seiges behind it. Your zealots are worthless then. I play vs hasuobs, and ask him how to hold 1-1-1 allin. He answers me: 'if terrans executes correctly, terran has 90% win ratio.' I offrace as terran and 2-0 a protoss which I have trouble defeating in pvp. I ask my terran friend; he tells me 'banshees should be nerfed imo'. I will continue practicing vs this strategy until I am able to defeat it. rsvp, your idea to flank is a good one, I will be trying it out. This thread is pretty nicely done, and I hope toss keep contributing. But tbh, I expect a nerf incoming as many toss in GSL have been struggling vs terran. PS: banshee tank marine moves out around 8:30-9 min mark and is at your base at 9:30 -10 min. banshee-raven-stim marines (aka polt push- it is less common): moves out 9:30-10min. Like 1 min slower. Now that I am writing this I just got an idea: why don't we bring our army to there ramp and ff? banshees will be annoying, but we should win quite some time by doing this (like forcing seige etc). I will try that out tomorrow and report my results. | ||
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
Now that I am writing this I just got an idea: why don't we bring our army to there ramp and ff? banshees will be annoying, but we should win quite some time by doing this (like forcing seige etc). I will try that out tomorrow and report my results. What, like a 3gate pressure expand? If you take your army to the ramp AFTER you've expanded and so on you risk losing everything if they aren't going 1-1-1. I suppose there might be an Observer timing in Gate-expo-Robo or Gate-Robo-expo where if you scout they are going 1-1-1 you can just take your units and FF the ramp for a while, but I don't think it is a final solution as Banshees will give you problems, and you need like 5-6 sentries to constantly FF a ramp which means you cannot tech up at all and will have too few Stalkers to prevent Banshee harass. If you just mean for like 20 seconds, yeah probably but you have to hit the right timing and hope they aren't going for a delayed Polt-style push, otherwise your FFs will be useless and you waste energy and risk dying to a non-1-1-1 build. 3gate expand is bad vs the Banshees, and plus Terran isn't really in a rush to move out until after he reaches the right number of units, which is after the semi-contain 3gate expo gives you. | ||
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ssregitoss
Turkey241 Posts
On August 12 2011 13:32 L3g3nd_ wrote: it was just a one base collosus build, which isnt really that optimal, as if he scouts no expansion, the T should just expand himself. i think you are wrong.even artosis mentioned best response for 1-1-1 is collo build with one base.if you watch the replays toss take his expo imm. after he saw CC in his base.so you are not behind and still had the same base and eco.i read all OP advice but nothing getting really close to collo build.if there is a hard counter unit for marines why dont we use it?i strongly recommend these replays to get watched. | ||
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Huntz
164 Posts
i think you are wrong.even artosis mentioned best response for 1-1-1 is collo build with one base.if you watch the replays toss take his expo imm. after he saw CC in his base.so you are not behind and still had the same base and eco.i read all OP advice but nothing getting really close to collo build.if there is a hard counter unit for marines why dont we use it?i strongly recommend these replays to get watched. Well i know you're wrong  because terran can just opt to expand and be ahead. seige tanks and bunkers will hold collo in low numbers, especially without chargelots AND he can harass with banshees. im not sure if he could contain you, but i wouldn't be surprised if he could expo first and contain you as wellEDIT: Thank you QTIP (are you the QTIP from that Obs custom a while ago? quite a while ago?) for this guide.. I've had a lot of success holding it off, unfortunately terrans never leave their base before 10:30, so its not very well executed.. or they're waiting longer/too long. But it works so i have no complaints  | ||
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