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On August 17 2011 20:53 Tazerenix wrote:
So how does a ht rush work against the 1-1-1.
Usually i just do the standard zealot sentry immortal with a few stalkers but imagine if you detect it early you could get out a couple of HT and lots of zealots.
Thoughts?
Someone always mentions this in 1-1-1 threads. There isn't a chance in hell that you could get HT+storm in time with enough of an army to back it up.
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I holded a 1/1/1 but was not all-in, I was "all-inyng" when i saw.
http://drop.sc/27716
I saw the tank, so I presumed that he will not have cloak(at least not in time).
The engage was not good... but I'm just a diamond noob.
Here is how a BOSS take care of it:
http://drop.sc/27715
Whitera holded using gateway units and expandind. (3gate expand)
Even Though, the mules gave to terran the oportunity for a second push.
I hope it help.
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just saw Tassadar losing to this in the GSL twice in a row...
He tried pheonix build failed
expand/voidray failed
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On August 18 2011 12:46 Crysack wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 20:53 Tazerenix wrote:
So how does a ht rush work against the 1-1-1.
Usually i just do the standard zealot sentry immortal with a few stalkers but imagine if you detect it early you could get out a couple of HT and lots of zealots.
Thoughts? Someone always mentions this in 1-1-1 threads. There isn't a chance in hell that you could get HT+storm in time with enough of an army to back it up.
Unfortunately, quick HT's does NOT work. You simply won't have them up in time with storm with typical 1-1-1 timings. If you have HT's with Storm + 75 energy at 8-9 minutes, then you should have died a long time ago.
I will say this: Against the 2-2-2 (2 base variation of this build) I think Storm and Charge are requirements. As many have mentioned in this thread, the Protoss anti-1-1-1 composition scales poorly in comparison with the Terran army. You need these upgrades to even stand a chance.
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Whoever says going quick HT is the solution needs to actually play the game first before posting.
Seriously.
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On August 19 2011 03:32 novabossa wrote:
Whoever says going quick HT is the solution needs to actually play the game first before posting.
Seriously.
Couldn't agree more.
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On August 19 2011 02:04 QTIP. wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2011 12:46 Crysack wrote:On August 17 2011 20:53 Tazerenix wrote:
So how does a ht rush work against the 1-1-1.
Usually i just do the standard zealot sentry immortal with a few stalkers but imagine if you detect it early you could get out a couple of HT and lots of zealots.
Thoughts? Someone always mentions this in 1-1-1 threads. There isn't a chance in hell that you could get HT+storm in time with enough of an army to back it up. Unfortunately, quick HT's does NOT work. You simply won't have them up in time with storm with typical 1-1-1 timings. If you have HT's with Storm + 75 energy at 8-9 minutes, then you should have died a long time ago. I will say this: Against the 2-2-2 (2 base variation of this build) I think Storm and Charge are requirements. As many have mentioned in this thread, the Protoss anti-1-1-1 composition scales poorly in comparison with the Terran army. You need these upgrades to even stand a chance.
Do you have any opinions on a late 1 base thor push? Basically it's 3/1/1(3 naked racks) and hits at about 13 minutes with 35+marines, 3 thors, 5 banshees, a raven,and scvs.
I got completely rolled trying colossus/gateway, immortal/gateway, and chargelot/archon (granted my micro wasn't flawless by any means, but the terran essentially just 1a'd anyway). Hts seem like they are worth trying, I'm just hesitant to rely on them because I can't always tell if it's this late thor push or a standard 1/1/1, with the early raven possibly killing obs.
I can upload replays if you'd like to see/aren't familiar with it. Masters toss here btw
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On August 19 2011 03:54 ant885 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2011 02:04 QTIP. wrote:On August 18 2011 12:46 Crysack wrote:On August 17 2011 20:53 Tazerenix wrote:
So how does a ht rush work against the 1-1-1.
Usually i just do the standard zealot sentry immortal with a few stalkers but imagine if you detect it early you could get out a couple of HT and lots of zealots.
Thoughts? Someone always mentions this in 1-1-1 threads. There isn't a chance in hell that you could get HT+storm in time with enough of an army to back it up. Unfortunately, quick HT's does NOT work. You simply won't have them up in time with storm with typical 1-1-1 timings. If you have HT's with Storm + 75 energy at 8-9 minutes, then you should have died a long time ago. I will say this: Against the 2-2-2 (2 base variation of this build) I think Storm and Charge are requirements. As many have mentioned in this thread, the Protoss anti-1-1-1 composition scales poorly in comparison with the Terran army. You need these upgrades to even stand a chance. Do you have any opinions on a late 1 base thor push? Basically it's 3/1/1(3 naked racks) and hits at about 13 minutes with 35+marines, 3 thors, 5 banshees, a raven,and scvs. I got completely rolled trying colossus/gateway, immortal/gateway, and chargelot/archon (granted my micro wasn't flawless by any means, but the terran essentially just 1a'd anyway). Hts seem like they are worth trying, I'm just hesitant to rely on them because I can't always tell if it's this late thor push or a standard 1/1/1, with the early raven possibly killing obs. I can upload replays if you'd like to see/aren't familiar with it. Masters toss here btw
I'd like to see a replay. I've played against a similar Thor/banshee/marine ball (though I'm not sure about the timing). I remember defeating it quite handily with a Stalker Colossus Ball by just abusing thermal lance. The situation might be different though, so a replay would be great. Perhaps you can make it as another thread and we can comment there to avoid derailing.
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This thor push seems to be a late version of the normal one which hits by 11. It hits when there will be 2 colossi out max. Im sure i have replays if u want to compare. Normally there is a raven 3-4 banshees, 2-3 thors depending on map and marines.
I have very good results with it. 1 base play obv does very well against it. That aside chargelot immortal also does well. Saying that i havent done is much since thors got nerfed hard, so maybe HTs now jsut tear it apart.
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I'll make a separate thread, just wanted to be sure you saw.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=256508
gateway/colossus
http://drop.sc/28032
immortal/gateway
http://drop.sc/28033
chargelot/archon
http://drop.sc/28034
Not viable. Dies flat out to a 4 gate. You dont even scout in one of them. Also the P players you are playing against also see to refuse to scout. No expo at 9 min and they arent cutting probes.... or suiciding a probe to see whats up.
Im not saying you wont win some games with it. But the build is not solid, it auto dies to too many common P builds. You dont even put up 1 bunker
Please post comments to this in the thread I linked. Don't want to get off topic from Qtip's guide.
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Not viable. Dies flat out to a 4 gate. You dont even scout in one of them. Also the P players you are playing against also see to refuse to scout. No expo at 9 min and they arent cutting probes.... or suiciding a probe to see whats up.
Im not saying you wont win some games with it. But the build is not solid, it auto dies to too many common P builds. You dont even put up 1 bunker
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On August 19 2011 03:54 ant885 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2011 02:04 QTIP. wrote:On August 18 2011 12:46 Crysack wrote:On August 17 2011 20:53 Tazerenix wrote:
So how does a ht rush work against the 1-1-1.
Usually i just do the standard zealot sentry immortal with a few stalkers but imagine if you detect it early you could get out a couple of HT and lots of zealots.
Thoughts? Someone always mentions this in 1-1-1 threads. There isn't a chance in hell that you could get HT+storm in time with enough of an army to back it up. Unfortunately, quick HT's does NOT work. You simply won't have them up in time with storm with typical 1-1-1 timings. If you have HT's with Storm + 75 energy at 8-9 minutes, then you should have died a long time ago. I will say this: Against the 2-2-2 (2 base variation of this build) I think Storm and Charge are requirements. As many have mentioned in this thread, the Protoss anti-1-1-1 composition scales poorly in comparison with the Terran army. You need these upgrades to even stand a chance. Do you have any opinions on a late 1 base thor push? Basically it's 3/1/1(3 naked racks) and hits at about 13 minutes with 35+marines, 3 thors, 5 banshees, a raven,and scvs. I got completely rolled trying colossus/gateway, immortal/gateway, and chargelot/archon (granted my micro wasn't flawless by any means, but the terran essentially just 1a'd anyway). Hts seem like they are worth trying, I'm just hesitant to rely on them because I can't always tell if it's this late thor push or a standard 1/1/1, with the early raven possibly killing obs. I can upload replays if you'd like to see/aren't familiar with it. Masters toss here btw
13 minutes? Pfft.. that means you have had about 6-7 mins of mining off 2 base as toss, should be easily holdable with gateway + immortal/colossus.
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check socke vs select on iem.he just used 2 collos.it would be more easy if he didnot expand.OP dont like collo but the progamer who wins vs 1-1-1 uses collos.
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On August 19 2011 02:04 QTIP. wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2011 12:46 Crysack wrote:On August 17 2011 20:53 Tazerenix wrote:
So how does a ht rush work against the 1-1-1.
Usually i just do the standard zealot sentry immortal with a few stalkers but imagine if you detect it early you could get out a couple of HT and lots of zealots.
Thoughts? Someone always mentions this in 1-1-1 threads. There isn't a chance in hell that you could get HT+storm in time with enough of an army to back it up. Unfortunately, quick HT's does NOT work. You simply won't have them up in time with storm with typical 1-1-1 timings. If you have HT's with Storm + 75 energy at 8-9 minutes, then you should have died a long time ago. I will say this: Against the 2-2-2 (2 base variation of this build) I think Storm and Charge are requirements. As many have mentioned in this thread, the Protoss anti-1-1-1 composition scales poorly in comparison with the Terran army. You need these upgrades to even stand a chance.
I've been thinking about this for a while, and while I agree that storm is a bad idea, rushing high templar for archons seems a bit more viable. Archons are nearly as effective as colossus against the marines, and can also help clean up banshees. Their large size helps a bit with tank splash as well. You've also got feedback as an option if the terran skips cloak and energy builds up on banshees. I've only just started experimenting with it, but have had positive results thus far.
The timing for rushing an archon is roughly the same as colossus, but unlike 1-base colossus builds, templar tech gives you more options. If you go colossus and the terran expands and goes for a 2-base push instead, you're stuck on a weaker tech route. If you went templar, you can just expand yourself, get charge and storm, and be in a great spot.
The main problem I have with fast expanding and trying to defend with zealot/stalker or zealot/stalker/immortal is the lack of splash damage. If the terran delays their push, I have trouble dealing with the larger number of marines, but I'm afraid to tech because there's no way to know exactly when they're going to move out.
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QTIP I love you. I have now beaten the terran 4-gate twice in a row. Which is completly awesome. Thank you for this nice guide.
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On August 19 2011 07:24 ssregitoss wrote:
check socke vs select on iem.he just used 2 collos.it would be more easy if he didnot expand.OP dont like collo but the progamer who wins vs 1-1-1 uses collos.
SeleCT didn't use a raven and it was a somewhat delayed push.
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On August 20 2011 00:34 MrPello wrote:
QTIP I love you. I have now beaten the terran 4-gate twice in a row. Which is completly awesome. Thank you for this nice guide.
^_^. you make me happy.
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Italy12248 Posts
Yep, this build is really good vs marine/tank/banshee ^^. Sadly i just lost to a guy going 1-1-1, but instead of allining he went for a fast marine drop with hellions running at the front, and i died because i saw it a bit late and the 8 marines+ 4 hellions killed the few gateway units i had (doesn't help that they were badly out of position); sadly i don't have a replay because i was pissed and didn't save it. So, is it me just being really really bad, or can you hold something like that with robo before the gates?
edit: it actually was longer ago than i thought so nop, not in my unsaved replays :/
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On August 20 2011 03:00 Teoita wrote:
Yep, this build is really good vs marine/tank/banshee ^^. Sadly i just lost to a guy going 1-1-1, but instead of allining he went for a fast marine drop with hellions running at the front, and i died because i saw it a bit late and the 8 marines+ 4 hellions killed the few gateway units i had (doesn't help that they were badly out of position); sadly i don't have a replay because i was pissed and didn't save it. So, is it me just being really really bad, or can you hold something like that with robo before the gates?
If you jsut lost, then its still in your unsaved replays. It holds, i dunno your last 20-30?
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EPT
