• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:03
CEST 17:03
KST 00:03
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed14Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll6Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension3Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Who will win EWC 2025? The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome
Brood War
General
How to choose the right travel agency for trips? Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches CSL Xiamen International Invitational [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Summer Games Done Quick 2025!
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 797 users

[G] Twilight Council PvP

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
CecilSunkure
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2829 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-11 01:24:11
July 31 2011 00:58 GMT
#1
Twilight PvP - [ 3rd Draft ]

Changelist (Oldest to Newest Descending order):

◕Reworked the entire Game Flow list!
◕Rewrote most of the Game Plan section.
◕Created a youtube video of me detailing this style between HerO and AliveFan!
◕Other minor clarifications and changes.
◕Clarified expansion timings!
◕Reworked Game Flow list. - New!
◕Removed most information about Forge before Robo. - New!
◕Rewrote most of the Game Plan section. - New!
◕Updated engagement notes. - New!


Overview
I'm finally confident that a completely viable way to play PvP is now with Twilight tech. For the longest time you'd see one of three things: 1) Blink [into base trade if vs Robo]*; 2) 4 Gate; 3) Robo. *Blink would go into a Robo transition if the game went on long enough, or into a base trade. I have yet to see a common Stargate focused mid-game, and Templar tech for the longest time was rather cheesy and risky. However with the new Archon range buff and Massive buff, Twilight tech is a completely viable option for mid-game!

I've developed most of the information here through trial and error, as it's just really hard to get replays of professional Protoss trying new things out. However in the below spoiler detail about a player who won a game with Twilight Toss. As such you might want to take what is here with a grain of salt, and expect the Twilight tech path standard to change over time as reactions/strategies are refined.

Generally the game flow you want is like this:
  • Opening build, survive any aggression and/or be the aggressor. Ultimately you both come out even and then choose tech. This is where you lay down the Twilight Council.
  • Blink finishes -> go try to kill them! Against a 3 Gate Robo, your chance to kill them is before 2 Immortals are out.
  • Detection. You will either get a Robo (Observers) or Forge.
    • Forge + Cannons for Detection. A single cannon is all that is needed if you have good mechanics. If not, lay down 2. If you're sure he does not have DT tech, skip the Cannon.
      • Research Charge followed by +1 attack (or armor, armor better early on, attack better in the long run), cut Stalker production.
      • Expand behind your Blink Stalker pressure, leave your warping in Zealots near your Natural Expansion.
      • Place Templar Archives after Charge is researched, and follow up with Archons whenever you have the vespene.

    • Robotics Facility for Observers
      • Use your Robotics Facility and Observers with extreme mobility. Expand behind this if opponent does not have Blink. Expand if you get an advantage in any situation at this point.
      • Research Charge. Be sure not to do this too early! It takes practice with a unit tester to find out what sort of army can beat what sort of army. Against Robo armies with Colossus in them (around 1-3 Colossus), you only need enough Stalkers to 3 shot Colossus. Against Blink Stalker/Immortal you need a whole lot more Stalkers before going into Chargelot/Archon (about 30).
      • Place Templar Archives. You will now switch into Chargelot/Archon/Immortal!

  • +1 Attack (if not yet researched, and if no Forge get one for the +1 Attack!).
  • Archon + Blink Stalker + Zealot + Sentry (Guardian Shield). Immortals should be added for population efficiency.

You should be able to see why I've dubbed this Twilight PvP! You use up all your tech access with the Twilight council, instead of a Robo-centric army composition. It should be noted that there are two styles I am aware of: 1) Robotics Facility before Blink. This uses Immortals to take an expansion at the Natural and press a Blinking player away from you. Follow up with Blink Stalkers as the Natural Expansion is taken; 2) Blink aggression off of 3 Gates, followed by either a Forge or a Robotics facility. The Forge allows for a faster armor or attack upgrade, although a Robitics facility grants access to Observers for insane Blink mobility, along with the very pop-efficient Immortals. The Forge also allows you to get Archons out faster, as you can allocate your vespene into an aggressive timing earlier on than with a Robotics.

Note: I don't think anyone really goes for Forge before Robo anymore due to the extreme necessity of Observers because of the ramp vision change! Since I've seen no replays of Forge + Blink, it's basically a stagnant strategy (I'm not even using it, I go for Obs).

Choose Opening
There isn't necessarily a single opening that is best, but I have my own triple Stalker variant modified from YongHwa's play I usually run in PvP. Most notably Liquid`Tyler beat ChoyaFou with a twilight tech path, only using a Robotics Facility for Observers. He opened with a defensive 4 Gate and immediately obtained Blink the moment he realised a 4 Gate wasn't going to come from Choya.
I'll share my opening with you all as an example:
  • Standard Pylon -> Gateway -> Assimilator -> Pylon -> Cybernetics Core
  • If you chrono twice and 13 Gate, you have enough minerals to get either a Zealot or an Assimilator before your second Gateway. I suggest an Assimilator (as it requires no supply and prevents a gas steal).
  • Second Gateway @50%-75% Cybernetics Core
  • Stalker + WG Research @ 100% Cybernetics Core
  • Pylon
  • 2 Stalkers (Chrono'd) @100% Second Gateway
  • Send 3 Probes to mine on second Assimilator
  • Gateway
  • Depending on opponent's presence, order 2 more Stalkers or place a Twilight Council.*
  • *If he's 4 Gating, you'll want to order 2 more Stalkers followed by another Gate. If you for some reason with your triple Stalkers kill off a couple enemy Stalkers, you can actually get a Twilight council instead of another Gateway. You just have to keep your Stalkers alive, and keep the opponent's Stalker count low. This is often times possible because your Stalkers can pick off a stray Stalker, or take down an enemy Stalker warping in.

+ Show Spoiler [3 Stalker Video] +


The Overall Game Plan (the Build)
You can either get Blink then Robotics Facility or Forge, or Robotics Facility then Twilight Council. Blink then Forge is uncommon these days, so I won't talk about it anymore. I've had trouble getting it to work, and moved onto fast Obs.

I usually have Blink finish just at 8 minutes. This is often times too late for you to kill an opponent that went for Robo tech and has sat up their ramp all game. If however you perhaps held off a 4 Gate, then you should immediately try to kill your opponent (assuming you have a lead) when Blink finishes. Either way, you need to have your Blink Stalkers at the bottom of your opponent's ramp once it finishes, and this will allow you to get your Observer -which is where the real fun begins.

An Observer should be constructed the moment you realize you cannot kill your opponent shortly after Blink finishes. The faster your observer, the faster you can expand. This is because once you have an Observer on the map an opponent without Blink cannot take their Natural Expansion easily at all. You can blink into your opponent's main and snipe buildings, then blink back out if the opponent has a slower army. Due to this, you can effectively expand safely while delaying or punishing an expansion from your opponent, for a significant amount of time.

[image loading]
Applying Blink Pressure while Expanding!

If the opponent went for Gateways + Robo for Immortal, then he'll likely go for either Colossus tech, or Blink + Immortals. Against Colossus tech you simply delay their expansion and abuse your mobility by blinking into their bases, while expanding yourself. If the opponent tries to Colossus allin you off of one base, simply Blink into their base as they leave! You will have the advantage in a base trade.

Against Blink + Immortals, you can either Blink + Immortal yourself, or go for Charge + Blink. I've played successfully with both, and I prefer Blink + Charge due to higher mobility. The key to winning a battle against Blink + Immortal with Blink + Charge is to get a good engagement. You want to slam Zealots into his Immortals first, and you don't want your Stalkers to be shot by his Immortals. This means a lot of the time I don't send in my Chargelots to the battle until after the battle starts. This is important! Imagine your opponent with a ball of Blink Stalkers. Your Zealots will run up, and all the Stalker will begin firing at your Zealots all at once, and then they'll die. After that all you have is a bunch of naked Stalkers and your Zealots won't have killed anything. When you engage, you want the Zealots to run in once both of the armies form more of two parallel lines. This is because when this happens, his Immortals will be more exposed, and not all of his Stalkers will be firing at your Zealots while your Stalkers are still behind!

[image loading]
Blinking up the ramp with a Blink into Obs style!

If you went Robotics First, you'll definitely need Blink (or charge) to match your opponent's mobility. Once you take your natural you need to lay down a Twilight Council and up your Stalker count. You should be expecting your opponent to be abusing Blink + Observers to try to pick things off or catch your army out of position. Be prepared for this, as you'll have less Stalkers for a good amount of time. Once your Stalker count matches the opponents, or somewhere close, you want to make the switch into your next tech of choice. It's highly common for the next tech of choice to be Colossus tech. Colossus + Blink is a really strong composition! The idea behind Blink into Colossus is to delay whatever your opponent is doing as long as possible (or punish them if they expand too fast), while teching to Colossus. Once your Colossus count is up to 3+, you can hold off the likely push coming from the opponent with an equal army value. Another option is to go into Chargelot/Immortal/Archon, which is super badass and fun to play compared to Colossus tech.

It's my understanding that Blink Stalker Chargelot Immortal Archon > Colossus Stalker Sentry Zealot. If Colossus aren't in play, Immortals are probably going to be pretty unnecessary. Assuming your opponent went for Immortal/Blink Stalker (which I feel is the strongest option against Blink Stalker), a strong timing attack can be dealt once they try to start adding on Colossus, with your Chargelot/Archon/Blink Stalker army. Just don't engage up a ramp.

The biggest problem I've had in PvP going with Twilight Protoss is when the opponent gets out 5+ Colossus. When this happens they seem to dominate the ground too heavily and sorta negate your Zealots from the battle. You must engage an army of 5+ Colossus in a very open area, or you just won't be able to kill the army off.

Personally I like to add in Storm for late game to blanket the enemy in insane DPS, followed by a morphing of Archons that come into battle near the end. I also like to add in a group of voidrays late game into my army to start focusing down Colossus once a battle starts, as they take down Colossus so so fast. However how good either of these ideas are has no backing or sources, as it's just my own opinion.

Notes for Engagements
If your army consists of Blink Stalker/Chargelot, you're most likely going to be up against Immortal/Blink Stalker. Although often times opponents will not get Blink, and perhaps go for DT or start Colossus Tech (I think Blink is the best option for the opponent at this point [Source, Set 5]). You want your Zealots to charge in and slam into his Immortals. This will not only kill them, but up the probability that an Immortal will start shooting a Zealot instead of a Stalker. Against Blink/Immortal it's important to engage properly. This will take some practice, go to a unit tester map! Imagine your opponent with a ball of Blink Stalkers. Your Zealots will run up, and all the Stalker will begin firing at your Zealots all at once, and then they'll die. After that all you have is a bunch of naked Stalkers and your Zealots won't have killed anything. When you engage, you want the Zealots to run in once both of the armies form more of two parallel lines. This is because when this happens, his Immortals will be more exposed, and not all of his Stalkers will be firing at your Zealots while your Stalkers are still behind!

Once you have your Archons, you want them spread about your army so that Force Fields can do absolutely nothing. If all your Archons are on one side of your army, the other side can be potentially devestated by Force Fields, as you really need a good surface area for your Zealots. Your Archons are also going to want to target enemy Zealots first, as they do plus damage to bio, and the small collision radius of Zealots makes Splash all the better. Archons murder Zealots.

In the event you don't need Immortals, you more than likely have an idle robo. Make use of it and get a Warp prism! Use it to drop off some Zealots into mineral lines during engagements, or just before. Warp in behind your army to reinforce in the battle. Anything! Just use the Warp Prism to your advantage. It only costs 200 minerals (2 Zealots), but can easily be used to grant much much more than 2 Zealots into key areas at key times. I've even loaded it up with Immortals and dropped them onto Colossus during large battles.

The Opposing Viewpoint
I currently feel the best reaction to Blink Stalker, if you have a Robo up, is to get Immortal/Blink Stalker. Immortals will win you a direct engagement, but your own rabble of Blink Stalkers grants you mobility equal to the opponent. The idea behind this timing is that just as Blink finishes you engage down your ramp with your Immortals/Sentry/Zealot, and Blink down the ramp with your Stalkers. If your natural expansion is choky, you can often times just trap all enemy Stalkers with your own, and force them to blink over you, thusly wasting a blink and allowing the rest of your forces down the ramp.

While you chase the enemy Blink Stalkers with your own + Immortals, the enemy Protoss will either have to lose a lot of Stalkers just running from you, or they will engage you when you Blink chase. This isn't very bad for you, as this should allow your Immortals to come into range and deal more damage than the opponent's higher Blink Stalker count can dish out to your smaller Blink Stalker pursuers. The goal is to kill as many opposing Blink Stalkers as possible, while taking your Natural Expansion. From here I'm not very sure of what to do, as I'm usually on the other side of the battle, but what seems most dangerous is DT tech into Archons, or DT tech + Colossus. The Colossus seem risky as if the opponent attacks your Natural before you get a critical mass it seems the opponent's Archon/Chargelot/Blink Stalker will beat you, though the DT tech beforehand allows you to harass the oppponent's side of the map rather freely.

Sources/Examples
  • Set 5 - The famous IMYongHwa 3 Stalker opening. This is my source to show that Immortal/Blink Stalker beats Blink Stalker during mid-game.
  • Tyler vs ChoyaFou - MLG Anahiem. Tyler loses some Stalkers to the Immortal/Blink timing, but survives and crushes the offense of Choya with Charge/Blink timing defense. Tyler follows this up with a timing attack of Chargelot/Archon/Blink against Archon/Zealot/One Colossus. The timing hit before Choya could get a few Colossus out, so Tyler had more Zealots and more splash dealers to kill opposing Zealots. Yes I used the word timing a lot just now, but honestly these are all timings, as the result of each battle is heavily dependent on when a tech or research finishes.
  • CecilSunkure vs CCalms - Bnet. This game was close pos Shattered Temple, and I came out on top. It was very close, but what won the game was the combination of +1 attack for my Zealots, and my Archons tanking SO much damage. I feel if the opponent is pushing you like CCalms did this game, the Archon is pivotal for the engagement. +1 attack I know helps tremendously as well.
  • Squirtle vs Hero - GSTL Set 1. Squirtle uses Immortal/Archon/Chargelot/Blink against Blink/Zealot/Colossus to great affect. The immortals seem pivotal against Blink/Colossus.
  • Liquid`HerO replay pack! - Watch all of these replays honestly they all rock... The one in particular to watch is HerO vs AliveFan.
  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2koIkKrAByE
    Video analysis of HerO explaining a style of Twilight PvP!
  • CecilSunkure Vs Ladder Dude - Blink Allin vs Immortal Expand

  • More to come as I get in touch with my PvP practice buddies and find more pro games!
  • MrRicewife
    Profile Blog Joined February 2011
    Canada515 Posts
    Last Edited: 2011-07-31 08:56:36
    July 31 2011 01:09 GMT
    #2
    mod edit
    User was warned for this post
    So? My dad can beat up your dad. - Jesus
    eFonSG
    Profile Joined November 2010
    United States255 Posts
    July 31 2011 01:13 GMT
    #3
    Another great guide! I cant wait to have some structure in my twilight play in PvP. Thanks a lot!
    Hybris
    Profile Joined August 2010
    United States185 Posts
    July 31 2011 01:20 GMT
    #4
    I've been doing chargelot archon for most of my PvP's that go to two base. I usually open similarly to you do (blink stalkers), but I especially like the additions you have mentioned like the +1 attack upgrade as well as the timing on the robo. My only concern about this style is how it fares in a later game against a ton of collossi. I know that ideally you want to end the game before mass colossus is out on the field (I mean like 7-8), but sometimes that just isn't possible.

    I feel like if you don't kill your opponent before he gets a CM of colossus, assuming he is going the mass colossus route, then you will be in a ton of trouble; however, I do love this style in the midgame due to the fact that you have insane mobility as well as a strong standing army that won't just die to a colossus player.
    justin.tv/hybriss
    happyness
    Profile Joined June 2010
    United States2400 Posts
    July 31 2011 01:22 GMT
    #5
    Nice to see a *real* guide in the strategy forums. I've been doing roughly the same thing for PvP but this should help me refine it a lot!
    Bartimaeus
    Profile Joined January 2011
    United States67 Posts
    July 31 2011 02:35 GMT
    #6
    A very nice and well-thought out guide, especially appreciated as PvP is a very volatile matchup and seeing a clear picture of an entire game through one strategy writeup is rare . . . and I also thought about twilight at first lol.

    As for constructive criticism, a replay of a pro doing this would be very helpful if you could find one, but other than that it looks great to me. Is there any point in time where you would add 3 or 4 HTs with storm? As a small part of a maxed army I don't see why a tiny sprinkling of storm wouldn't be effective - most people, until this becomes popular, wouldn't move out of it as storm is highly underestimated in PvP.
    CecilSunkure
    Profile Blog Joined May 2010
    United States2829 Posts
    July 31 2011 03:00 GMT
    #7
    On July 31 2011 11:35 Bartimaues wrote:
    As for constructive criticism, a replay of a pro doing this would be very helpful if you could find one, but other than that it looks great to me. Is there any point in time where you would add 3 or 4 HTs with storm? As a small part of a maxed army I don't see why a tiny sprinkling of storm wouldn't be effective - most people, until this becomes popular, wouldn't move out of it as storm is highly underestimated in PvP.

    I'm definitely working on that. I'll have a VOD of that one pro player as detailed in the OP in the spoiler, asap.
    Amui
    Profile Blog Joined August 2010
    Canada10567 Posts
    July 31 2011 03:01 GMT
    #8
    I feel like immortals are a fairly good supplement to a twilight player against colossi. You should usually win the chargelot/archon war, and then immortals clean up quite well if they don't get focused down, and if colossi focus them, it's very good for your army. I do have a replay somewhere of me going chargelot archon immortal, and taking down a 6 colossus army. I'll edit it in if I can find it.
    Porouscloud - NA LoL
    Salivanth
    Profile Blog Joined October 2010
    Australia1071 Posts
    July 31 2011 03:06 GMT
    #9
    You're awesome Cecil, love reading your guides. I already use your 3-Gate aggressive expand PvT, and since I've recently started using Geiko's 3-gate PvP that is supposed to transition into Blink Stalker, this guide is invaluable.
    <@Wikt> so you are one of those nega-fans <@Wikt> that hates the company that makes a game and everything they stand for <@Wikt> but still plays the game <@Wikt> (like roughly 30% of blizzard's player base, maybe much more...)
    lowkontrast
    Profile Blog Joined August 2010
    United States855 Posts
    Last Edited: 2011-07-31 05:37:01
    July 31 2011 03:18 GMT
    #10
    + Show Spoiler [MLG spoilers] +
    Is this what Tyler did against Choya?


    User was warned for this post
    SCPlato
    Profile Blog Joined May 2010
    United States249 Posts
    July 31 2011 03:24 GMT
    #11
    Always impressed by your write ups. Well done.
    All men are by nature equal, made all of the same earth by one Workman; and however we deceive ourselves, as dear unto God is the poor peasant as the mighty prince. -Plato
    -XSV-
    Profile Joined July 2011
    United States23 Posts
    July 31 2011 03:36 GMT
    #12
    Great write up! Can't wait to try it out!
    ranjutan
    Profile Joined November 2010
    United States636 Posts
    July 31 2011 03:58 GMT
    #13
    Sick write-up. I usually play this style in PvP on large maps (except tal'darim T_T) and only rarely find myself losing games I feel like I should have won. The only losses come against players who just mass colossi and match me in expansions. Once there are, like, 10 colossi with gateway support only the perfect arc can win the fight for me. Recently I have started dropping double stargates once on 3 bases (stolen from Minigun's stream ^_^) against this style. Even if the mass voidrays aren't a surprise, the combination of voidrays and zeal/stalker/archon is incredibly strong against any response you'd expect, like mass blink stalkers or even counter air.
    Also this style is very fun to play, especially when both players are willing to play a macro game
    http://i53.tinypic.com/1r3j0p.gif
    NB
    Profile Blog Joined February 2010
    Netherlands12045 Posts
    July 31 2011 04:06 GMT
    #14
    you need to edit: 1st stalker after 100%core, not gate
    also need to add when to research wrap tech? are you skipping it?
    + Show Spoiler +

    over all the build is exactly NonY vs Choya game 2 on shakuras where nony 4 gate vs a 3 gate 2 gas choya (choya 13 gate). even though choya execution was not totally perfect but its pretty hard to stop a 4 gate using this build
    Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
    TheAlchemist89
    Profile Blog Joined December 2010
    160 Posts
    July 31 2011 04:26 GMT
    #15
    This is a great guide, can't wait to see it evolve. Although I'm at a way lower skill than you, I have also been looking to expand on the Archon/charge/blink composition as it feels really darn strong... my only problem so far has been if I let my opponent get too many colo's as you very clearly stated.

    Great guide!
    CecilSunkure
    Profile Blog Joined May 2010
    United States2829 Posts
    July 31 2011 04:55 GMT
    #16
    On July 31 2011 13:06 NB wrote:
    you need to edit: 1st stalker after 100%core, not gate
    also need to add when to research wrap tech? are you skipping it?
    + Show Spoiler +

    over all the build is exactly NonY vs Choya game 2 on shakuras where nony 4 gate vs a 3 gate 2 gas choya (choya 13 gate). even though choya execution was not totally perfect but its pretty hard to stop a 4 gate using this build

    It's always assumed that WG is researched as Core finishes, but I will clarify that.

    Also yes, it is the exact same thing Nony did! I was really excited to see Nony do exactly what I've been working out myself (except he had worked in +1 attack).
    Arisen
    Profile Blog Joined October 2010
    United States2382 Posts
    July 31 2011 04:59 GMT
    #17
    great job again. Protoss players are lucky to have such an active top level player as Cecil to bring good information to the table so often.
    "If you're not angry, you're not paying attention"
    caradoc
    Profile Blog Joined January 2011
    Canada3022 Posts
    Last Edited: 2011-07-31 05:35:54
    July 31 2011 05:35 GMT
    #18
    yeah, the tyler choya game was really eye-opening. I'll definitely be trying this style.
    Salvation a la mode and a cup of tea...
    ZeromuS
    Profile Blog Joined October 2010
    Canada13389 Posts
    July 31 2011 05:35 GMT
    #19
    Awesome guide I have only skimmed it as it is late and MLG is on but I look forward to reading this in detail and learning the build inside out
    StrategyRTS forever | @ZeromuS_plays | www.twitch.tv/Zeromus_
    Anfi
    Profile Joined July 2010
    Russian Federation63 Posts
    Last Edited: 2011-07-31 05:54:59
    July 31 2011 05:54 GMT
    #20
    If your opponent answers your zealot / archon tech with a lot of colossus, a possibly viable strategy is to put down a double stargate and chrono out void rays.
    5 colossus is a 30 food investment, comparable with ±8 void rays.

    A void ray basically doubles the dps of a corruptor against massive targets, and has a bit more health / shields. Throw in an extra air attack upgrade while getting the voids and the colossus will die very very fast. Think about 2 seconds for 8 void rays per colossus before the charge-up.

    Even just trading 2 void rays for 1 colossus is advantageous, because then you can mop up the remaining stalkers with your chargelot / archon force. It is pretty much the same way zergs use corruptors against colossus.
    "Men are like steel. When they lose their temper, they lose their worth." - Chuck Norris
    1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
    Please log in or register to reply.
    Live Events Refresh
    OSC
    13:00
    King of the Hill Weekly #218
    CranKy Ducklings201
    Liquipedia
    [ Submit Event ]
    Live Streams
    Refresh
    StarCraft 2
    RotterdaM 227
    mouzHeroMarine 222
    SpeCial 182
    mcanning 93
    StarCraft: Brood War
    Britney 39065
    Sea 3278
    Larva 2798
    EffOrt 1789
    firebathero 1767
    Stork 732
    Mini 439
    Snow 389
    Light 361
    Zeus 198
    [ Show more ]
    PianO 131
    ToSsGirL 96
    Sharp 85
    Hyun 80
    TY 76
    sSak 69
    actioN 68
    Backho 59
    sas.Sziky 49
    Rush 32
    GoRush 29
    scan(afreeca) 22
    Terrorterran 18
    Yoon 12
    Noble 11
    ajuk12(nOOB) 11
    IntoTheRainbow 10
    SilentControl 10
    Hm[arnc] 9
    Shine 5
    Stormgate
    NightEnD1
    Dota 2
    Gorgc11656
    singsing3206
    qojqva963
    syndereN247
    Counter-Strike
    sgares578
    byalli309
    markeloff106
    edward22
    Super Smash Bros
    Mew2King64
    Other Games
    B2W.Neo1428
    hiko1278
    Lowko456
    DeMusliM452
    Fuzer 257
    FrodaN161
    KnowMe105
    QueenE57
    Pyrionflax43
    Trikslyr34
    Organizations
    Other Games
    gamesdonequick2635
    StarCraft: Brood War
    Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 13
    StarCraft 2
    Blizzard YouTube
    StarCraft: Brood War
    BSLTrovo
    sctven
    [ Show 15 non-featured ]
    StarCraft 2
    • Berry_CruncH28
    • poizon28 1
    • AfreecaTV YouTube
    • intothetv
    • Kozan
    • IndyKCrew
    • LaughNgamezSOOP
    • Migwel
    • sooper7s
    StarCraft: Brood War
    • BSLYoutube
    • STPLYoutube
    • ZZZeroYoutube
    Dota 2
    • lizZardDota247
    League of Legends
    • Nemesis3063
    • Jankos1280
    Upcoming Events
    WardiTV European League
    57m
    Fjant vs Babymarine
    Mixu vs HiGhDrA
    Gerald vs ArT
    goblin vs MaNa
    Jumy vs YoungYakov
    Replay Cast
    8h 57m
    OSC
    8h 57m
    Epic.LAN
    20h 57m
    CranKy Ducklings
    1d 18h
    Epic.LAN
    1d 20h
    CSO Contender
    2 days
    BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
    2 days
    Bonyth vs Sziky
    Dewalt vs Hawk
    Hawk vs QiaoGege
    Sziky vs Dewalt
    Mihu vs Bonyth
    Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
    QiaoGege vs Fengzi
    Sparkling Tuna Cup
    2 days
    Online Event
    3 days
    [ Show More ]
    BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
    3 days
    Bonyth vs Zhanhun
    Dewalt vs Mihu
    Hawk vs Sziky
    Sziky vs QiaoGege
    Mihu vs Hawk
    Zhanhun vs Dewalt
    Fengzi vs Bonyth
    Esports World Cup
    4 days
    ByuN vs Astrea
    Lambo vs HeRoMaRinE
    Clem vs TBD
    Solar vs Zoun
    SHIN vs Reynor
    Maru vs TriGGeR
    herO vs Lancer
    Cure vs ShoWTimE
    Esports World Cup
    5 days
    Esports World Cup
    6 days
    Liquipedia Results

    Completed

    JPL Season 2
    RSL Revival: Season 1
    Murky Cup #2

    Ongoing

    BSL 2v2 Season 3
    Copa Latinoamericana 4
    Jiahua Invitational
    BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
    Championship of Russia 2025
    FISSURE Playground #1
    BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
    ESL Impact League Season 7
    IEM Dallas 2025
    PGL Astana 2025
    Asian Champions League '25
    BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
    MESA Nomadic Masters

    Upcoming

    CSL Xiamen Invitational
    CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
    2025 ACS Season 2
    CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
    CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
    BSL Season 21
    K-Championship
    RSL Revival: Season 2
    SEL Season 2 Championship
    uThermal 2v2 Main Event
    FEL Cracov 2025
    Esports World Cup 2025
    Underdog Cup #2
    ESL Pro League S22
    StarSeries Fall 2025
    FISSURE Playground #2
    BLAST Open Fall 2025
    BLAST Open Fall Qual
    Esports World Cup 2025
    BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
    BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
    IEM Cologne 2025
    TLPD

    1. ByuN
    2. TY
    3. Dark
    4. Solar
    5. Stats
    6. Nerchio
    7. sOs
    8. soO
    9. INnoVation
    10. Elazer
    1. Rain
    2. Flash
    3. EffOrt
    4. Last
    5. Bisu
    6. Soulkey
    7. Mini
    8. Sharp
    Sidebar Settings...

    Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

    Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
    The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.