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On August 25 2011 18:10 sleepingdog wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 18:07 Danglars wrote:On August 25 2011 17:54 sleepingdog wrote:Sorry buddy, but I think this build will be very dead once 1.4 hits - I've already started transitioning to one gate robo 3 gate  The PTR blink change will change the face of PvP. I'm really hoping the 30-sec addition will be reverted after additional PTR testing. Until then, practicing *basically* the same opening proposed by OP, along with the slightly different 3gates before council (HuK on Metalopolis in GSL Code S, the one where defender lost due to a guardian shield instead of FF). It's just nice to know other people have thought about robo vs. forge and when to mix in those +1 upgrades, get the actual charge, get the archives and first archon, and playstyle against robo into blink. Haphazard getting the charge, ups, and archons wasn't leading to solid PvP midgame after expo beforehand =P Thanks for writeup Actually it's not so much the blink research time but the immortal range upgrade. Until now, pure blink stalker vs stalker/immortal was hard but do-able. Now it will be impossible as immortals will always get the first shot off vs the stalker in front. Maybe I'm a bit exaggerating, but I could imagine that by going straight immortals (one gate robo) you could very well be able to kill a blink player straight up - as he won't be able to use "attack and blink back" to avoid damage.
Yeah you got the point about immortal range. Honestly, I'm still wrapping my mind around not having to micro those slow things in narrow spaces to shoot at what they're supposed to do.
I'm really talking about the attack-with-blink-before-2-immortals bit. I can virtually guarantee that a robo player can kiss a threatening blink attack in that timing goodbye on PTR. We don't really have the chronoboosts necessary to fully lessen the impact of the 30 seconds of blink delay, either.
Midgame yeah you're right on the general playstyle, just as in the wg nerf patch the new archon changes mattered more after WG tech was finished researching.
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I guess the Blink Stalker opening will be less popular as this 1st attack right when you have blink finished and the opponent almost has his 1st immortal will be less effective cuz with ~30 seconds more he will definitly have his 1st immortal and maybe evenhis second. This means for me i have to get a good robo build and get blink later maybe on 2 bases.
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Also.. i often blink up the ramp and get vision, simply "pushing" the forcefield..
There's a time window when u get vision (maybe for a bug?)..When i do, there's only 1 immortal (this can change for the blink nerf) and i snipe it. But with the change of the vision on ramps.. i cannot do this anymore.. This can be another reason to avoid blink tech\rush?
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Do you ever recommend getting storm with this build? Or does it hurt archon production/other upgrades too much?
I can never tell whether I am getting more mileage out of my templar with storm or as archons.
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On August 26 2011 01:42 quillian wrote:
Do you ever recommend getting storm with this build? Or does it hurt archon production/other upgrades too much?
I can never tell whether I am getting more mileage out of my templar with storm or as archons.
Late game, go for it. A couple storms should be pretty pop-efficient for a maxed army. Also can morph an archon directly after.
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On August 25 2011 19:09 CecilSunkure wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 17:54 sleepingdog wrote:Sorry buddy, but I think this build will be very dead once 1.4 hits - I've already started transitioning to one gate robo 3 gate Dang.
Doesnt the increased build time for blink and increased immortal range just mean that its better to go 3 stalker robo then blink? I know in the OP, you discuss how the main opening options are robo/blink and blink/robo. So now this just means its best to go robo/blink??
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What I have never understood is why players get Templar Archives over a Dark Shrine in PvP? You really do not use storm that much and the cheaper gas cost of Archons in PvP usually pay up for the higher cost of the Dark Shrine. Feedback is almost useless in this matchup anyways. The only flaw I see is that there is a larger timing window of vulnerability.
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On August 26 2011 11:13 bankai wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 19:09 CecilSunkure wrote:On August 25 2011 17:54 sleepingdog wrote:Sorry buddy, but I think this build will be very dead once 1.4 hits - I've already started transitioning to one gate robo 3 gate Dang. Doesnt the increased build time for blink and increased immortal range just mean that its better to go 3 stalker robo then blink? I know in the OP, you discuss how the main opening options are robo/blink and blink/robo. So now this just means its best to go robo/blink??
idk perhaps. We'll see only when we play on the PTR or wait for the patch to go live.
On August 26 2011 11:16 epikAnglory wrote:
What I have never understood is why players get Templar Archives over a Dark Shrine in PvP? You really do not use storm that much and the cheaper gas cost of Archons in PvP usually pay up for the higher cost of the Dark Shrine. Feedback is almost useless in this matchup anyways. The only flaw I see is that there is a larger timing window of vulnerability.
Think about it. Say you have 300 minerals and 300 vespene gas. You can get 2 Archons and 2 Zealots with that with a Archives. With a Dark Shrine you can get 2 Archons and that's it because you'll have 50/50 left over. It allows an easier time to efficiently spend your resources.
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Question:
You mention with your first three stalkers never to loose them when engaging before your opponents 4 gate comes out. Would you still hold that true if you can take out your opponents initial 3 units like 2 stalker/zealot, or stalker/zealot/sentry as well as doing econ damage?
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On August 31 2011 19:40 hobbidude wrote:
Question:
You mention with your first three stalkers never to loose them when engaging before your opponents 4 gate comes out. Would you still hold that true if you can take out your opponents initial 3 units like 2 stalker/zealot, or stalker/zealot/sentry as well as doing econ damage?
Your question is pretty unclear. Can you make it more clear?
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On September 01 2011 05:33 CecilSunkure wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2011 19:40 hobbidude wrote:
Question:
You mention with your first three stalkers never to loose them when engaging before your opponents 4 gate comes out. Would you still hold that true if you can take out your opponents initial 3 units like 2 stalker/zealot, or stalker/zealot/sentry as well as doing econ damage? Your question is pretty unclear. Can you make it more clear?
I think he's asking if it's okay to sacrifice an initial stalker to take out 3 units of your opponent's as well as probes. I can't see a situation to which this applies though.
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CecilSunkure can we get your thoughts on this build / editing OP to include what you think needs to be adjusted in initial blink-finished attacks and blink vs robo? Have you had much time to practice this opening post-patch or have you swapped to another mainstay pvp opening? Much appreciated.
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Hey, Cecil, why so baller?
Seriously, I steal your builds all the time, and your write ups are the best, hands down. I absolutely love the changelog you added; everyone should be doing that.
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Is the Blink Aggression still viable because of patch?
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On September 28 2011 11:36 TheRealFluid wrote:
Is the Blink Aggression still viable because of patch?
Yeah it is! I've been doing it. Robo first might be better, I don't know, but I know what I'm doing seems to be fine for me.
On September 28 2011 10:40 Danglars wrote:
CecilSunkure can we get your thoughts on this build / editing OP to include what you think needs to be adjusted in initial blink-finished attacks and blink vs robo? Have you had much time to practice this opening post-patch or have you swapped to another mainstay pvp opening? Much appreciated.
I've practiced a little bit after the patch. All that seems to have changed is that you have to stay a little farther away from Immortals with your Stalkers, and it's near-impossible to kill someone with Blink without an Observer for high ground vision.
On September 28 2011 10:54 jarhead271 wrote:
Hey, Cecil, why so baller?
Seriously, I steal your builds all the time, and your write ups are the best, hands down. I absolutely love the changelog you added; everyone should be doing that.
^_^ <3
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Updated the OP quite a bit. Robo first is the only way I play this anymore, and I also talked about Blink/Immortal -> Colossus, as this is getting really popular (Immortal portion of this is optional). I have a replay or two to add later, so check back soon to get them!
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On October 06 2011 06:20 CecilSunkure wrote:
Updated the OP quite a bit. Robo first is the only way I play this anymore, and I also talked about Blink/Immortal -> Colossus, as this is getting really popular (Immortal portion of this is optional). I have a replay or two to add later, so check back soon to get them!
Sorry it took a while, added a replay of me playing on ladder last night. This is how you should be using Blink to punish people doing the ever popular Immortal Expand.
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On October 11 2011 00:40 CecilSunkure wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 06:20 CecilSunkure wrote:
Updated the OP quite a bit. Robo first is the only way I play this anymore, and I also talked about Blink/Immortal -> Colossus, as this is getting really popular (Immortal portion of this is optional). I have a replay or two to add later, so check back soon to get them! Sorry it took a while, added a replay of me playing on ladder last night. This is how you should be using Blink to punish people doing the ever popular Immortal Expand.
Thanks a ton for updating this. I love Twilight council play, but all the robo play lately has been hurting my game 
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Italy12248 Posts
On October 11 2011 00:40 CecilSunkure wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 06:20 CecilSunkure wrote:
Updated the OP quite a bit. Robo first is the only way I play this anymore, and I also talked about Blink/Immortal -> Colossus, as this is getting really popular (Immortal portion of this is optional). I have a replay or two to add later, so check back soon to get them! Sorry it took a while, added a replay of me playing on ladder last night. This is how you should be using Blink to punish people doing the ever popular Immortal Expand.
Would you also allin an immortal expand if you went robo first and made a few immortals? I find that i can hit with blink and about 3 immortals ready right as his nexus finishes at around 9 mins, and that's often enough to overwhelm anyone without blink (if he's going 3gate robo expand; i have never faced an expo as fast as the one in the replay you posted).
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On October 11 2011 01:58 Teoita wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 00:40 CecilSunkure wrote:On October 06 2011 06:20 CecilSunkure wrote:
Updated the OP quite a bit. Robo first is the only way I play this anymore, and I also talked about Blink/Immortal -> Colossus, as this is getting really popular (Immortal portion of this is optional). I have a replay or two to add later, so check back soon to get them! Sorry it took a while, added a replay of me playing on ladder last night. This is how you should be using Blink to punish people doing the ever popular Immortal Expand. Would you also allin an immortal expand if you went robo first and made a few immortals? I find that i can hit with blink and about 3 immortals ready right as his nexus finishes at around 9 mins, and that's often enough to overwhelm anyone without blink (if he's going 3gate robo expand; i have never faced an expo as fast as the one in the replay you posted).
I do not know! Sorry!
Here's a replay to analyze for you guys! See if you can figure out what I did wrong to lose this Blink game: http://drop.sc/42993
+ Show Spoiler [Answers] +-I was too fast to blink away from the battle when I charged up his ramp with Stalkers. I probably could have picked off a couple Sentries with better control.
-My army was slightly too late to cut him off as he tried to walk down his ramp for the first time. This caused me to lose my change to pick off a free 5-6 Stalkers. Very bad engagement due to this.
-Didn't get up enough gates for my Expo (2 were idle at a key moment), and cancelled my templar archives???
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EPT
