EPT[G] ZvT Expand Quad Roach - Page 3
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy |
|
HuTSC2
Australia188 Posts
| ||
|
citizenleaf
United States14 Posts
| ||
|
MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
On July 19 2011 18:19 lkjewq wrote: Mr Bitter: + Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=174374 you get the hatch down faster which leads to less blocking you lose a small fraction of larva on your main hatchery but your expansion hatchery gets up faster for better saturation/creep spread and oh yeah it spawns LARVA as well so it makes up for the larva you lost on the main hatch. Personally I dislike the roach openings because I find speedlings are way more versatile and can do a great deal when micro'd well. Not to mention they offer a means of map control and pressure that roaches really dont offer, even with this build. You don't "make up" any larva. You're going to get the larva from your new hatchery regardless of when you start that hatch. Look, I've played with 13 hatch. Personally I don't really like it. That doesn't mean that it isn't viable. I think if you step back and look at allll the top guys, though, you'll notice a trend of hatching later than 13 because, at the end of the day, it's a little bit more efficient. edit: And because I don't want to derail this thread any further, this is the last time I'll speak to 13 hatch. (lol, I said I wasn't going to mention it the first time I posted here for this very reason) | ||
|
Exley
United States239 Posts
| ||
|
Requizen
United States33802 Posts
| ||
Liquid`Snute
Norway839 Posts
| ||
|
Ponyo
United States1231 Posts
If you follow the build to the t (no zerglings) then your roach warren will probably be scouted, which isnt always a bad thing | ||
|
Liquid`Snute
Norway839 Posts
 + Show Spoiler [Expo creep level at warren timing] + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/644aS.jpg) Update: I also checked the creep timing up against the placement of creep tumor in the expansion when using 13hatch instant-queen-in-expo, I think it is just before the natural creep from the hatchery itself is about to reach its limit. I think it's 1 tile away from maximum, perhaps 2. Could be very random tho + Show Spoiler [First Tumor with 13h instant-nat-queen] + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/v1Gx3.jpg) (ps: roach warren timing executed wrongly in the screenshot, its supposed to be earlier^_^) | ||
|
arbitrageur
Australia1202 Posts
On July 19 2011 05:21 MrBitter wrote: In the early game, Zerg has a very limited amount of larva to work with. A hatchery will produce one larva every 12 seconds, but it will stop producing any time it has 3 idle larva. (Queen inject not included) So any build that doesn't make efficient use of your early game larva is usually considered kinda bad... 13 hatch will have you cut drones for quite some time, and you will be sitting on 3 idle larva long enough to have wasted 2-3 units worth of larva. Might not seem like much, but consider ZvZ. If your opponent's first 2 lings kill 2-3 drones, how behind do you feel? Answer should be very. 1315 and 1415 are the two most economical builds under the conditions that: - no gas is taken - you make pure drone into your 20s supply. If these two conditions are satisfied, 1315 and 1415 with about 6 drones transferred are the best openings. This is just off memory of TL experiments going way back. There were two different, independent large scale experiments. 1415 was concluded to be the best in one, and 1315 in the other. In these experiments, the earlier queens must have compensated for the temporarily stifling of larvae production when the main had 3 larvae doing nothing. But yeah, if these assumptions don't hold, which they don't in real games, 1315 and 1415 may (and in the 1315 case I suspect it would) fall behind their conventional counterpart, the 1515. 1515 gives faster lings as well, so is better against a 9pool or 10pool build range, 1413 no speed banelings, 11/12 et al 2 raxes and so on. PS I do have my reservations w.r.t. the above experiments. Even people in high masters can have atrocious drone stacking, and I'm not even sure if the experimenter used drone stacking. And when the 1515 was attempted the experimenter may not have rallied from the 14th egg, which is the optimal way to 1515 when the eggs are facing away from the mineral line, or the distance from main to natural is scrapstation-esque far away. 14th egg to natural is also optimal if you have 2 drones on all 4 close patches from about the 9th or 10th drone onwards, no matter the map. | ||
|
kidbuu
6 Posts
| ||
|
Liquid`Snute
Norway839 Posts
On March 02 2012 17:37 kidbuu wrote: does this work against 2 port banshee? cuz my friend goes 2 port banshee and then marine hellions It's one of the weakest builds against 2port if you skip additional queens. It's fine if you follow it up with more queens and detection. The roaches will block any sort of expand play and you might be able to buy time and see the banshees if you move the roaches to his natural. You can also deal a lot of damage if your friend forgets to place down a bunker with his 2 port build. It's more about your transition though. You only commit to 4 roaches, but choose your transition from there wisely. | ||
|
roym899
Germany426 Posts
| ||
|
Wilsonator
46 Posts
This opening has the following at ~6:00-6:10 -2 hellions (and 2 hellion well on their way building) -2 marines -1 maurauder -CC almost done Supply depot wall can tank while last 2 hellions pop out. With this composition at the front it seams to me that it should be easy to defend against 4 roaches even if two of the hellions are stuck outside the wall. I have been using this build for awhile with the single blind marauder to help against 6 roach rushes. The techlab later gets reused for factory, or is used for stim (depends). A terran opening like this could cause a lot of problem as far as I can tell. Anyone agree/disagree? | ||
| ||
