Wouldn't want to rely on this as your "solid" build because going in with 2 warpprisms is quite a risk ( Like in the first replay, if the queens were a little bit better targeted you would have lost a warp prism + 4 sentries in it ). But in a boX situation this could be a killer!

Thanks for sharing.

Jumbled

1543 Posts

July 14 2011 23:43 GMT

#23

The general strategy has been around forever, although the version demonstrated by some Korean pros is much faster and only uses one warp prism. There are some good replays of top pros doing it but you'd have to dig around a bit in order to find them.

Keilah

731 Posts

July 14 2011 23:51 GMT

#24

why 2 warp prisms instead of 1? so you can drop your sentry/warp in on either side of the ramp at any given moment instead of waiting to fly around?

w3jjjj

United States760 Posts

July 14 2011 23:53 GMT

#25

On July 15 2011 07:48 syriuszonito wrote:
thats just another tricky all in that will fail badly when you know how to deal with it. Any competent zerg will start pumping units if he does not see an expansion going down at 6 min mark and if he splits his army he will demolish your attack without a problem which basically means the game is over for you.

You dismissed his build's validity, while claiming that his victories with the build are against incompetent zerg opponents, these are your original words.

In my post i said of course if people scouts it they can prepare, exact words here.

On July 15 2011 08:03 w3jjjj wrote:
As the op stated and shown in replays, they build works at high master level, don't pull this "any competent zerg will demolish you crap". Of course if a strategy is scouted you can prepare for it. If you are not going to contribute, don't post. Do you really enjoy dismissing someone's good work like that? Think about how you feel when people to that to you..

On July 15 2011 08:27 syriuszonito wrote:
@w3jjjj
You quote my post but it seems you didnt take time to read it. I did not say any good zerg will demolish his crap. I said that once you know how to defend it, the build fails and puts you in a very bad situation which is why i wouldnt call this build a revolutionary pvz. Thats a tricky all in that can win you some games on ladder but once ppl learn their lesson its gonna be useless.
I'd say my post brings more to the discussion than your "Excellent guide btw. Looks pretty scary".

So you posted a hurtful comment, instead of apologizing, you are re-phrasing yourself to sound nicer? Just read out loud the bolded words from your first post and your second one. If your first post was mannered like the second one, I wouldn't have picked on you.

4 gate timing attacks are all-in by nature, this build is a variation of the 4 gate so of course if the attack fails protoss will be behind. What are you bringing to the discussion? I acknowledge the good work that the op put in, and that somehow is worse than you dissing his work?

Exley

United States239 Posts

July 14 2011 23:54 GMT

#26

One question to the OP: What do you do when your cover has been blown? It's not uncommon to see a sacrificial overlord at 6:15 mark, especially if you go stalker before sentry.

I think if you delay the lair and don't go past 35 drones, you should be able to get enough roaches and lings out in time to stop this and you may even finish +1 melee.

Also if you have 3 queens out you can try to camp around the ramp to prevent the prisms from deploying while focusing one down.

fezvez

France3021 Posts

July 14 2011 23:54 GMT

#27

Excellent post, excellent build! I watched the 3 replays, and I've been extremely impressed.

I tried a few customs to check the timings, and the warp prism leave your base at around 7:40. I like how you switch between zealot/sentry if you face only zerglings and stalker if you face roach.

Well, it's of course much more powerful if you manage to be in his nat while his army is trapped in his main. No counterattack possible.

And I tend to disagree with people stating if the zerg splits his army then the push fails. A 4 gate, even late, against only one half of a zerg army clearly wins. And it is simply sooo easy to force field the ramp if the zerg begins to put too much units on one side of the ramp.

I guess it's the queen usage (and army splitting) that counters the build, but I still have to see it. OP, do you have a replay of the protoss having to retreat?

Marsupian

Netherlands455 Posts

July 15 2011 00:00 GMT

#28

When I read "revolutionary" I was expecting some sick midgame/lategame warpprism plays but instead it's a 1 base all-in... I'm dissapoint. Still it's a solid strategy which looks really scary to hold. Great guide but the title is a bit bombastic for a 1 base all-in.

videogames

United States103 Posts

July 15 2011 00:02 GMT

#29

Wow, this is PURE EVIL

VashTS

United States1675 Posts

July 15 2011 00:04 GMT

#30

Pretty soon, Toss will have as many all in options as Terran. =o

I'm gonna check the reps between IEM/IPL, but this looks extremely interesting to me. Ty for the contribution, as it's always a plus to see Warp Prisms used.

w3jjjj

United States760 Posts

July 15 2011 00:04 GMT

#31

On July 15 2011 09:00 Marsupian wrote:
When I read "revolutionary" I was expecting some sick midgame/lategame warpprism plays but instead it's a 1 base all-in... I'm dissapoint. Still it's a solid strategy which looks really scary to hold. Great guide but the title is a bit bombastic for a 1 base all-in.

Agreed, I actually faced some good master protoss players who constantly harassed me in mid game with ht drops with phase prism, not that hard to defend, but really caught me off guard first time I faced that play style. I was actually expecting that when I first read the title lol. That kind of play style changes bringing back the harass macro style from bw would be revolutionary indeed if it proofs to work at top level. Still this is a nice guide.

edc

United States666 Posts

July 15 2011 00:08 GMT

#32

I really like this build. It's similar to the one KiWiKaKi used against IdrA a long time ago, yet this one looks even better. Is there also a possibility to use this against the other races? I don't think it would work well against Protoss, as they can warp-in inside their main, but using this strategy against Terran seems almost as reasonable as against Zerg. Good job, and if it is truly a well-made build, people like White-Ra should start using it

Drowsy

United States4876 Posts

July 15 2011 00:13 GMT

#33

On July 15 2011 08:10 Lobotomist wrote:
Jesus that's cheesy. What would be the best zerg response to this, split units?

just speculating here, but I'm guessing spines in main/exp would do ok. It's kind of impossible to really know this is coming if it's just a ladder game though, but if you knew your opponent was doing this that'd be the answer.

Marsupian

Netherlands455 Posts

July 15 2011 00:33 GMT

#34

It would be interesting to see how many units you get out without getting the robo and double prism. If you can get double the amount of units if you don't get warpprisms than splitting your units makes this push easier to hold than a normal attack (if you don't split this is still better). If splitting your units is a viable response this build is just a gimmick that kills players who don't know how to respond. If half your units is not enough to hold this off than it's actually a strong push you have to scout and react to.

Also is it viable to kill the prisms with your queen if you see it coming?

Lobotomist

United States1541 Posts

July 15 2011 00:50 GMT

#35

Generally, against protoss staying on 1 base I get pretty suspicious that they'll be going DTs or Void Rays, so I'll get spores. If you see a warp prism, you could definitely put spores by your ramp to keep the warp prisms away. You'd have to have the spores already though, scout timing would be critical.

FeelGood

United States23 Posts

July 15 2011 01:15 GMT

#36

The replays are really good. o:

Just curious if this works against spanishiwas where they have several queens to take down the warp prisms? (taking out sentries/preventing reinforcements?)

Still have to try it out though, good post!

jhlee820

149 Posts

July 15 2011 01:25 GMT

#37

Really hoping this doesn't catch on or I'm going to be shedding a lot of tears in my ZvPs. Looks like I'll have to start splitting units to catch drops in ZvP

Dhalphir

Australia1305 Posts

July 15 2011 01:29 GMT

#38

I think it makes you a bit of a pretentious tool to label your 1 base strategy "revolutionary"

its a funky strategy, but nothing more. Don't be like PrideTV.

TolEranceNA

Canada434 Posts

July 15 2011 01:29 GMT

#39

Wow this is insanely powerful! Even with powerful responses, i still doubt myself, or any zerg can hold this off without losing too much! Awesome build man!
EDIT: Gonna tell David Kim, i know what i want for Patch 1.4

Dhalphir

Australia1305 Posts

July 15 2011 01:30 GMT

#40

On July 15 2011 08:51 Keilah wrote:
why 2 warp prisms instead of 1? so you can drop your sentry/warp in on either side of the ramp at any given moment instead of waiting to fly around?

so that you can continue to make untis while you make the prisms and carry all the units you'll have rather than having to avoid using warpgates until you arrive at his base