[G] 3 Reaper Rush TvT - Page 2

On June 22 2011 06:16 ButtCraft wrote:
I really like the idea of this build. I'm ~1400 master Terran for reference.

The current standard is 1-1-1 openings with absolutely zero units capable of killing early reapers. You take a look at any of the "standard" TvT builds, and they all start off with only marines.

That being said, I'm not sure how this would work on really long spawning distance maps like tal'darim altar. It seems like hellions would be out in time.

EDIT:

Isn't it "barracks"? The singular form of "barracks" is just "barracks".

On June 22 2011 06:20 link0 wrote:
<3 Pride

Love - Hate relationship with you and your wacky builds.

On June 22 2011 06:29 Mr_Kyo wrote:
Easily scouted. If you see techlab first, then you would assume reaper and prepare for it. Then the element of surprise is gone and reapers could even jump on a cliff into a trap or simply do no damage. Not saying you shouldn't do it, just doesnt seem effective.

On June 22 2011 04:37 PrideTV wrote:

General

The cool part about this build is it looks like a normal reaper expand.


Build

10 supply
12 barrack (tech lab as soon as barrack is finished)
12 refinery
14 barrack (tech lab as soon as barrack is finished)
15 orbital

*This probably looks confusing as it is, just watch the replay and you’ll have a better understanding.*

On June 22 2011 06:32 spbelky wrote:


Watched the replays, and your statement about it looking just like a normal reaper expand is false.

Someone not familiar with this opener might see the tech lab on the rax, assume reaper expand, and turn around and go home... but that's about the only way they will mistake your build for reaper expand.

How to spot this build:
First thing to point out are some of the differences between this build and a reaper expand:
-Reaper expand gets a marine before techlab (most of the time)
-Reaper expand doesn't cut an scv at 15supply
-Reaper expand doesn't delay the OC ~30seconds
-Reaper expand doesn't get a 2nd barracks before CC

So, when scouting your Terran opponent, if you see a tech lab before marine, feel free to use your scouting scv to scout his entire base, because he can't do anything about it without the marine (tech lab before marine could just mean a greedier reaper expand than normal, so it could still be a reaper expand. In either case, continue scouting). If your pretty good at paying attention to what your opponent is doing, you will easily spot the scv cutting and the super delayed OC. If you do in fact notice the scv cutting + delayed OC, this either means he has a really bad build order, or hes up to something fishy. In either case, because he is already behind an scv (possibly 2 if you killed his scout) and it's safe to sacrifice your scouting scv to scout his entire base. In which case you will most likely find [b]A SECOND FUCKING BARRACKS[b]. Clearly not a reaper expand.

Key timings
4:00 first reaper pops. 2nd tech lab goes down.
5:20 about the earliest 3 reapers can be IN your base, but the games I looked at, Pride hit with 3-4 at like 5:45-6:00
*Reapers take 45seconds to build
*Tech labs take 25seconds to build
*Marauders take 30seconds to build
*Concussive shell takes 60seconds to research

So lets say you scout the 2nd barracks with a tech lab building at 4:00. (you will probably see the 2nd barracks earlier than this, but the tech lab wont go down until 4:00)
If you throw down a tech lab of your own and start building a marauder + conc shell, your timings will look like this:

4:00 (tech lab of your own)
4:25 (tech lab finishes, marauder starts, conc shell starts)
4:55 marauder#1
5:25 marauder#2 + conc shell (this is when his 3reaper hits)
5:55 IF YOU WANT A 3rd marauder, feel free, but 2 marauders is pretty good. this is when you'd have 3 marauders and he'd have 4 reapers.


I have to go now, but I'll say this before I leave: Delayed reapers in TvT is a neat strategy, but this build is too greedy and too easy to scout. It cuts too many corners, and obvious ones at that (cutting first marine, cutting an scv, delaying orbital, etc). The games that I watched you won because a) your opponent was thrown off because you are a notorious cheeser, b) your opponent did a poor job scouting, and wasn't prepared for your cheese, c) your opponent wasn't even trying (e.g. tQwannabe's mass hellion). Additionally, even some of the games where you were successful in expanding and harassing, you didn't gain any advantage economically (see Etsurlizzuma, many scv kills) because you cut scv production in order to be so aggressive.

I applaud you for trying something new and sharing it with us here at Team Liquid, but I'm afraid this is just another quasi-cheese that will fail now that people are aware of it.

On June 22 2011 06:38 PrideTV wrote:


Due to my recent games with the full scouting of the base, i proxy my 2nd barrack, so it indeed looks like a reaper expand

earliest i have gotten was at 3 reapers.. 5:10 at their base. 3-4 reapers at 5:45- 6:00 false..

On June 22 2011 06:40 spbelky wrote:


which replay was that? ill look at it when i get out of the shower.

On June 22 2011 06:42 PrideTV wrote:


vs aldehyde

On June 22 2011 06:49 spbelky wrote:


ok so yes, on close air position shattered temple (and maybe metalop) it will come earlier, that should be a given. Also, aldehyde a lot of the success relied on aldehyde scouting you last and not looking for the barracks in good position to pump reapers into his base. So i guess on close air spawn metalop/shattered check for that positioning of the 2nd rax, if it isnt there, it either means reaper expand or 3 reapers delayed ~10 seconds, so 5:20 like i said (it takes a reaper at least 10 additional seconds to get from most other places).

On June 22 2011 06:51 PrideTV wrote:


btw, when was the last time you seen recent tvt where one terran goes concussive shell in anticipation of mass reapers? never.....

Also this build punishes greedy players. There are players who goes 1 marine.. tech lab reaper.. to reactor barrack without producing any more marines while fast expo and putting up a fac.

On June 22 2011 06:29 Mr_Kyo wrote:
Easily scouted. If you see techlab first, then you would assume reaper and prepare for it. Then the element of surprise is gone and reapers could even jump on a cliff into a trap or simply do no damage. Not saying you shouldn't do it, just doesnt seem effective.

On June 22 2011 06:56 PrideTV wrote:
also on a side note, i'm notorious for 2 marauder pushes as well. Most players would put a bunker at their front ramp, thus less marines or less of something because of that 100 mineral spent on the bunker.

On June 22 2011 05:18 windsupernova wrote:


How is this cheese?

I think a similar build was done in a TvT in a GSL match, I don´t exactly remember which one but it was on dualsight it did surprisingly ton of damage

On June 22 2011 06:38 PrideTV wrote:

Due to my recent games with the full scouting of the base, i proxy my 2nd barrack, so it indeed looks like a reaper expand

earliest i have gotten was at 3 reapers.. 5:10 at their base. 3-4 reapers at 5:45- 6:00 false..

On June 22 2011 05:00 Mafs wrote:
Im but I really like using a couple reapers in TvP just to punish some protoss that decide to go fast nexus or lots of sentries early game vs T and try to get a few probe kills. Didn't expect it to work that well in TvT cause 3-4 maruders just destroy mass ammounts of reapers. Lets hope to see it used more in TvZ late game instead of drops.