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Unit
![[image loading]](http://i.acdn.us/image/A1246/1246078/300_1246078.png)
Taken from associatedcontent.com
Creditability
Before I get spammed/flamed at the haters about how much of a baddie I am, “Perception is reality to those who perceives it.” So no matter what I do or say, you’ll always think what you think .. so I’ll leave it at that. To the brighter few I'm scdpride, a grandmaster terran currently 1400+ points on NA server. you can check out my team @ starcraftdream.com
thanks for their support!
History
Reapers objective are as followed; scouting and having map control. A few weeks back I had nothing but, tvt on ladder and I absolutely hated 30 mins game where one player will finally get impatience and run through a massive tank line. EUREKA, thus the 3 reaper rush was created and improved to perfection.
General
The cool part about this build is it looks like a normal reaper expand.
Build
10 supply
12 barrack (tech lab as soon as barrack is finished)
12 refinery
14 barrack (tech lab as soon as barrack is finished)
15 orbital
*This probably looks confusing as it is, just watch the replay and you’ll have a better understanding.*
Executing
Upon completion of your first reaper, use it to control the xel’nega watch tower.
The idea is to push out with three reapers ASAP, now the question is why? Three reapers one shot marine/scv.
Your first objective is clearing those annoying marines, now the question is why? Once the marine count goes up, your reaper harass becomes that much more impossible. Now comes the easy part, kite all day with your reapers vs their scvs.
This build requires you to do a little dmg to their mineral line because of the late orbital, late tech and not constantly producing scvs at the beginning. To compensate for this, it’s almost mandatory to pick off a few scvs to break even on harvester count.
*something to note for.. If your harass was a success, don't stop building reapers and rallying to the opponent base.*
Follow up
Drop down a CC when you hit 400 minerals. My transition from here is tank/marines or banshees/viking to tank/marines.
If the terran goes for the standard barrack and gas opener *Always assume banshee*
If you notice that their factory were producing mad amounts of hellions *Always assume some kind of drop*
Counter
Reactor barrack
Tech lab marauder opener
When marines aren’t spread around the cliffs
Replays
+ Show Spoiler +
Video
+ Show Spoiler +
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I love your creative play style, thanks for sharing!
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Damn this looks good, I'm starting to hate TvT on the smaller maps, where i can't muster decent counter attacks with Bio.
so This should be great ^^
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Cool build I'll be sure to try it out.
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I faced this earlier last week on the ladder and it totaly took me by suprise.
Im one of the guys that do 1rax fe tech so i have a rather low marine count early on.
Reapers also provide suprisingly good map presence early on so you are basicly free to expand anywhere. (I got goldbased on meta so no matter i had an earlier expo the losses i sustained made up for him cutting scvs and then i just lost the game as i couldnt regain map controll whole game)
altho i have to say this never will be a standard in tvt but its a great build to do in for say a bo5
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This should work in TvP aswell, you need to have good map control and be ready to toss up a bunker if stalker poke comes tho, but good build been doing it for a month or so now, it really works.
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Neat. I'll definetly try this out, thanks for sharing! =D
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improvised to perfection.
improvise =/= improve
I like how you build the proxy barracks just to run your reaper to the other side of the map after it was built.
But it actually seem to be working. That's what I can say after 1 game using this and winning.
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Im but I really like using a couple reapers in TvP just to punish some protoss that decide to go fast nexus or lots of sentries early game vs T and try to get a few probe kills. Didn't expect it to work that well in TvT cause 3-4 maruders just destroy mass ammounts of reapers. Lets hope to see it used more in TvZ late game instead of drops.
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Oh Pride...You never cease to impress me with your cheese.
Blizzard Bless the Terran race
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very interesting and creative will have to try it out ^_^
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This is gonna be annoying to deal with on ladder now.
Opening Marauders might be a must now 
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On June 22 2011 05:05 OhMyGawd wrote:
Oh Pride...You never cease to impress me with your cheese.
Blizzard Bless the Terran race
How is this cheese?
I think a similar build was done in a TvT in a GSL match, I don´t exactly remember which one but it was on dualsight it did surprisingly ton of damage
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I both hate and love when people post stuff like this on TL.
Hate - every terran is going to try this now, and if it works, every terran will keep doing it.
Love - if i know its coming and i deflect the 3 reapers, i have a significant advantage, or i will straight up win with a well timed push.
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Yea, I guess you can call every terran opener cheesy if it doesn't involve a FE. Sometimes it is better to deal some early damage and expand behind it rather than go straight for the FE. I'll have to try this out sometime.
I think I lost to a variation on this build. I got rushed by 3-4 reapers and 3-4 marauders. It was a pretty powerful timing attack. It didn't kill me straight away, but it set me way far behind and my opponent ended up over running me later.
Gettin an early econ lead with an early push is underrated.
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interesting build, Thanks for the replays.
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On June 22 2011 05:05 OhMyGawd wrote:
Oh Pride...You never cease to impress me with your cheese.
Blizzard Bless the Terran race
lol?
its not standard, but its far from cheese.
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I alway use Reapers vs Toss, can't wait to try them out against Terran
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Jinro has been doing something like this in to Blue flame helions v gasless expand since I last watched his stream, 2 months ago. I'm not sure about his expansion timing but if you watch his vods I guarantee you will see it. Really, really good against terran who go nogas FE in to bio. One thing you can do on certain maps is then, if terran on top of ramp with bio, jump reaper up cliff while helions have a good line on the marines on top of ramp. I never saw him go in to anything other than helion after this though, I don't think.
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I really like the idea of this build. I'm ~1400 master Terran for reference.
The current standard is 1-1-1 openings with absolutely zero units capable of killing early reapers. You take a look at any of the "standard" TvT builds, and they all start off with only marines.
That being said, I'm not sure how this would work on really long spawning distance maps like tal'darim altar. It seems like hellions would be out in time.
EDIT:
Isn't it "barracks"? The singular form of "barracks" is just "barracks".
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<3 Pride
Love - Hate relationship with you and your wacky builds.
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On June 22 2011 06:16 ButtCraft wrote:
I really like the idea of this build. I'm ~1400 master Terran for reference.
The current standard is 1-1-1 openings with absolutely zero units capable of killing early reapers. You take a look at any of the "standard" TvT builds, and they all start off with only marines.
That being said, I'm not sure how this would work on really long spawning distance maps like tal'darim altar. It seems like hellions would be out in time.
EDIT:
Isn't it "barracks"? The singular form of "barracks" is just "barracks".
heres a replay i just played about 4 mins ago. Cross position metal. I even supplied at 11 and i still managed to pull it through. He did the 1-1-1 build.
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-216652.jpg)
On June 22 2011 06:20 link0 wrote:
<3 Pride
Love - Hate relationship with you and your wacky builds.
♥ hahah.
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Easily scouted. If you see techlab first, then you would assume reaper and prepare for it. Then the element of surprise is gone and reapers could even jump on a cliff into a trap or simply do no damage. Not saying you shouldn't do it, just doesnt seem effective.
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On June 22 2011 06:29 Mr_Kyo wrote:
Easily scouted. If you see techlab first, then you would assume reaper and prepare for it. Then the element of surprise is gone and reapers could even jump on a cliff into a trap or simply do no damage. Not saying you shouldn't do it, just doesnt seem effective.
most maps have 2 cliff position, thus you have to spread your marines. You are incorrect sir because you haven't even took the chance to watch the replays, but simply just theory crafting.. 99% of the time they see the reapers coming and they still die... inevitably
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On June 22 2011 04:37 PrideTV wrote:
General
The cool part about this build is it looks like a normal reaper expand.
Build
10 supply
12 barrack (tech lab as soon as barrack is finished)
12 refinery
14 barrack (tech lab as soon as barrack is finished)
15 orbital
*This probably looks confusing as it is, just watch the replay and you’ll have a better understanding.*
Watched the replays, and your statement about it looking just like a normal reaper expand is false.
Someone not familiar with this opener might see the tech lab on the rax, assume reaper expand, and turn around and go home... but that's about the only way they will mistake your build for reaper expand.
How to spot this build:
First thing to point out are some of the differences between this build and a reaper expand:
-Reaper expand gets a marine before techlab (most of the time)
-Reaper expand doesn't cut an scv at 15supply
-Reaper expand doesn't delay the OC ~30seconds
-Reaper expand doesn't get a 2nd barracks before CC
So, when scouting your Terran opponent, if you see a tech lab before marine, feel free to use your scouting scv to scout his entire base, because he can't do anything about it without the marine (tech lab before marine could just mean a greedier reaper expand than normal, so it could still be a reaper expand. In either case, continue scouting). If your pretty good at paying attention to what your opponent is doing, you will easily spot the scv cutting and the super delayed OC. If you do in fact notice the scv cutting + delayed OC, this either means he has a really bad build order, or hes up to something fishy. In either case, because he is already behind an scv (possibly 2 if you killed his scout) and it's safe to sacrifice your scouting scv to scout his entire base. In which case you will most likely find A SECOND FUCKING BARRACKS. Clearly not a reaper expand.
Key timings
4:00 first reaper pops. 2nd tech lab goes down.
5:20 about the earliest 3 reapers can be IN your base, but the games I looked at, Pride hit with 3-4 at like 5:45-6:00
*Reapers take 45seconds to build
*Tech labs take 25seconds to build
*Marauders take 30seconds to build
*Concussive shell takes 60seconds to research
So lets say you scout the 2nd barracks with a tech lab building at 4:00. (you will probably see the 2nd barracks earlier than this, but the tech lab wont go down until 4:00)
If you throw down a tech lab of your own and start building a marauder + conc shell, your timings will look like this:
4:00 (tech lab of your own)
4:25 (tech lab finishes, marauder starts, conc shell starts)
4:55 marauder#1
5:25 marauder#2 + conc shell (this is when his 3reaper hits)
5:55 IF YOU WANT A 3rd marauder, feel free, but 2 marauders is pretty good. this is when you'd have 3 marauders and he'd have 4 reapers.
I have to go now, but I'll say this before I leave: Delayed reapers in TvT is a neat strategy, but this build is too greedy and too easy to scout. It cuts too many corners, and obvious ones at that (cutting first marine, cutting an scv, delaying orbital, etc). The games that I watched you won because a) your opponent was thrown off because you are a notorious cheeser, b) your opponent did a poor job scouting, and wasn't prepared for your cheese, c) your opponent wasn't even trying (e.g. tQwannabe's mass hellion). Additionally, even some of the games where you were successful in expanding and harassing, you didn't gain any advantage economically (see Etsurlizzuma, many scv kills) because you cut scv production in order to be so aggressive.
I applaud you for trying something new and sharing it with us here at Team Liquid, but I'm afraid this is just another quasi-cheese that will fail now that people are aware of it.
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On June 22 2011 06:32 spbelky wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 04:37 PrideTV wrote:
General
The cool part about this build is it looks like a normal reaper expand.
Build
10 supply
12 barrack (tech lab as soon as barrack is finished)
12 refinery
14 barrack (tech lab as soon as barrack is finished)
15 orbital
*This probably looks confusing as it is, just watch the replay and you’ll have a better understanding.*
Watched the replays, and your statement about it looking just like a normal reaper expand is false. Someone not familiar with this opener might see the tech lab on the rax, assume reaper expand, and turn around and go home... but that's about the only way they will mistake your build for reaper expand. How to spot this build:First thing to point out are some of the differences between this build and a reaper expand: -Reaper expand gets a marine before techlab (most of the time) -Reaper expand doesn't cut an scv at 15supply -Reaper expand doesn't delay the OC ~30seconds -Reaper expand doesn't get a 2nd barracks before CCSo, when scouting your Terran opponent, if you see a tech lab before marine, feel free to use your scouting scv to scout his entire base, because he can't do anything about it without the marine (tech lab before marine could just mean a greedier reaper expand than normal, so it could still be a reaper expand. In either case, continue scouting). If your pretty good at paying attention to what your opponent is doing, you will easily spot the scv cutting and the super delayed OC. If you do in fact notice the scv cutting + delayed OC, this either means he has a really bad build order, or hes up to something fishy. In either case, because he is already behind an scv (possibly 2 if you killed his scout) and it's safe to sacrifice your scouting scv to scout his entire base. In which case you will most likely find [b]A SECOND FUCKING BARRACKS[b]. Clearly not a reaper expand. Key timings4:00 first reaper pops. 2nd tech lab goes down. 5:20 about the earliest 3 reapers can be IN your base, but the games I looked at, Pride hit with 3-4 at like 5:45-6:00 *Reapers take 45seconds to build *Tech labs take 25seconds to build *Marauders take 30seconds to build *Concussive shell takes 60seconds to research So lets say you scout the 2nd barracks with a tech lab building at 4:00. (you will probably see the 2nd barracks earlier than this, but the tech lab wont go down until 4:00) If you throw down a tech lab of your own and start building a marauder + conc shell, your timings will look like this: 4:00 (tech lab of your own) 4:25 (tech lab finishes, marauder starts, conc shell starts) 4:55 marauder#1 5:25 marauder#2 + conc shell (this is when his 3reaper hits) 5:55 IF YOU WANT A 3rd marauder, feel free, but 2 marauders is pretty good. this is when you'd have 3 marauders and he'd have 4 reapers. I have to go now, but I'll say this before I leave: Delayed reapers in TvT is a neat strategy, but this build is too greedy and too easy to scout. It cuts too many corners, and obvious ones at that (cutting first marine, cutting an scv, delaying orbital, etc). The games that I watched you won because a) your opponent was thrown off because you are a notorious cheeser, b) your opponent did a poor job scouting, and wasn't prepared for your cheese, c) your opponent wasn't even trying (e.g. tQwannabe's mass hellion). Additionally, even some of the games where you were successful in expanding and harassing, you didn't gain any advantage economically (see Etsurlizzuma, many scv kills) because you cut scv production in order to be so aggressive. I applaud you for trying something new and sharing it with us here at Team Liquid, but I'm afraid this is just another quasi-cheese that will fail now that people are aware of it.
Due to my recent games with the full scouting of the base, i proxy my 2nd barrack, so it indeed looks like a reaper expand
earliest i have gotten was at 3 reapers.. 5:10 at their base. 3-4 reapers at 5:45- 6:00 false..
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On June 22 2011 06:38 PrideTV wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 06:32 spbelky wrote:On June 22 2011 04:37 PrideTV wrote:
General
The cool part about this build is it looks like a normal reaper expand.
Build
10 supply
12 barrack (tech lab as soon as barrack is finished)
12 refinery
14 barrack (tech lab as soon as barrack is finished)
15 orbital
*This probably looks confusing as it is, just watch the replay and you’ll have a better understanding.*
Watched the replays, and your statement about it looking just like a normal reaper expand is false. Someone not familiar with this opener might see the tech lab on the rax, assume reaper expand, and turn around and go home... but that's about the only way they will mistake your build for reaper expand. How to spot this build:First thing to point out are some of the differences between this build and a reaper expand: -Reaper expand gets a marine before techlab (most of the time) -Reaper expand doesn't cut an scv at 15supply -Reaper expand doesn't delay the OC ~30seconds -Reaper expand doesn't get a 2nd barracks before CCSo, when scouting your Terran opponent, if you see a tech lab before marine, feel free to use your scouting scv to scout his entire base, because he can't do anything about it without the marine (tech lab before marine could just mean a greedier reaper expand than normal, so it could still be a reaper expand. In either case, continue scouting). If your pretty good at paying attention to what your opponent is doing, you will easily spot the scv cutting and the super delayed OC. If you do in fact notice the scv cutting + delayed OC, this either means he has a really bad build order, or hes up to something fishy. In either case, because he is already behind an scv (possibly 2 if you killed his scout) and it's safe to sacrifice your scouting scv to scout his entire base. In which case you will most likely find [b]A SECOND FUCKING BARRACKS[b]. Clearly not a reaper expand. Key timings4:00 first reaper pops. 2nd tech lab goes down. 5:20 about the earliest 3 reapers can be IN your base, but the games I looked at, Pride hit with 3-4 at like 5:45-6:00 *Reapers take 45seconds to build *Tech labs take 25seconds to build *Marauders take 30seconds to build *Concussive shell takes 60seconds to research So lets say you scout the 2nd barracks with a tech lab building at 4:00. (you will probably see the 2nd barracks earlier than this, but the tech lab wont go down until 4:00) If you throw down a tech lab of your own and start building a marauder + conc shell, your timings will look like this: 4:00 (tech lab of your own) 4:25 (tech lab finishes, marauder starts, conc shell starts) 4:55 marauder#1 5:25 marauder#2 + conc shell (this is when his 3reaper hits) 5:55 IF YOU WANT A 3rd marauder, feel free, but 2 marauders is pretty good. this is when you'd have 3 marauders and he'd have 4 reapers. I have to go now, but I'll say this before I leave: Delayed reapers in TvT is a neat strategy, but this build is too greedy and too easy to scout. It cuts too many corners, and obvious ones at that (cutting first marine, cutting an scv, delaying orbital, etc). The games that I watched you won because a) your opponent was thrown off because you are a notorious cheeser, b) your opponent did a poor job scouting, and wasn't prepared for your cheese, c) your opponent wasn't even trying (e.g. tQwannabe's mass hellion). Additionally, even some of the games where you were successful in expanding and harassing, you didn't gain any advantage economically (see Etsurlizzuma, many scv kills) because you cut scv production in order to be so aggressive. I applaud you for trying something new and sharing it with us here at Team Liquid, but I'm afraid this is just another quasi-cheese that will fail now that people are aware of it. Due to my recent games with the full scouting of the base, i proxy my 2nd barrack, so it indeed looks like a reaper expand earliest i have gotten was at 3 reapers.. 5:10 at their base. 3-4 reapers at 5:45- 6:00 false..
which replay was that? ill look at it when i get out of the shower.
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On June 22 2011 06:40 spbelky wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 06:38 PrideTV wrote:On June 22 2011 06:32 spbelky wrote:On June 22 2011 04:37 PrideTV wrote:
General
The cool part about this build is it looks like a normal reaper expand.
Build
10 supply
12 barrack (tech lab as soon as barrack is finished)
12 refinery
14 barrack (tech lab as soon as barrack is finished)
15 orbital
*This probably looks confusing as it is, just watch the replay and you’ll have a better understanding.*
Watched the replays, and your statement about it looking just like a normal reaper expand is false. Someone not familiar with this opener might see the tech lab on the rax, assume reaper expand, and turn around and go home... but that's about the only way they will mistake your build for reaper expand. How to spot this build:First thing to point out are some of the differences between this build and a reaper expand: -Reaper expand gets a marine before techlab (most of the time) -Reaper expand doesn't cut an scv at 15supply -Reaper expand doesn't delay the OC ~30seconds -Reaper expand doesn't get a 2nd barracks before CCSo, when scouting your Terran opponent, if you see a tech lab before marine, feel free to use your scouting scv to scout his entire base, because he can't do anything about it without the marine (tech lab before marine could just mean a greedier reaper expand than normal, so it could still be a reaper expand. In either case, continue scouting). If your pretty good at paying attention to what your opponent is doing, you will easily spot the scv cutting and the super delayed OC. If you do in fact notice the scv cutting + delayed OC, this either means he has a really bad build order, or hes up to something fishy. In either case, because he is already behind an scv (possibly 2 if you killed his scout) and it's safe to sacrifice your scouting scv to scout his entire base. In which case you will most likely find [b]A SECOND FUCKING BARRACKS[b]. Clearly not a reaper expand. Key timings4:00 first reaper pops. 2nd tech lab goes down. 5:20 about the earliest 3 reapers can be IN your base, but the games I looked at, Pride hit with 3-4 at like 5:45-6:00 *Reapers take 45seconds to build *Tech labs take 25seconds to build *Marauders take 30seconds to build *Concussive shell takes 60seconds to research So lets say you scout the 2nd barracks with a tech lab building at 4:00. (you will probably see the 2nd barracks earlier than this, but the tech lab wont go down until 4:00) If you throw down a tech lab of your own and start building a marauder + conc shell, your timings will look like this: 4:00 (tech lab of your own) 4:25 (tech lab finishes, marauder starts, conc shell starts) 4:55 marauder#1 5:25 marauder#2 + conc shell (this is when his 3reaper hits) 5:55 IF YOU WANT A 3rd marauder, feel free, but 2 marauders is pretty good. this is when you'd have 3 marauders and he'd have 4 reapers. I have to go now, but I'll say this before I leave: Delayed reapers in TvT is a neat strategy, but this build is too greedy and too easy to scout. It cuts too many corners, and obvious ones at that (cutting first marine, cutting an scv, delaying orbital, etc). The games that I watched you won because a) your opponent was thrown off because you are a notorious cheeser, b) your opponent did a poor job scouting, and wasn't prepared for your cheese, c) your opponent wasn't even trying (e.g. tQwannabe's mass hellion). Additionally, even some of the games where you were successful in expanding and harassing, you didn't gain any advantage economically (see Etsurlizzuma, many scv kills) because you cut scv production in order to be so aggressive. I applaud you for trying something new and sharing it with us here at Team Liquid, but I'm afraid this is just another quasi-cheese that will fail now that people are aware of it. Due to my recent games with the full scouting of the base, i proxy my 2nd barrack, so it indeed looks like a reaper expand earliest i have gotten was at 3 reapers.. 5:10 at their base. 3-4 reapers at 5:45- 6:00 false.. which replay was that? ill look at it when i get out of the shower.
vs aldehyde
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On June 22 2011 06:42 PrideTV wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 06:40 spbelky wrote:On June 22 2011 06:38 PrideTV wrote:On June 22 2011 06:32 spbelky wrote:On June 22 2011 04:37 PrideTV wrote:
General
The cool part about this build is it looks like a normal reaper expand.
Build
10 supply
12 barrack (tech lab as soon as barrack is finished)
12 refinery
14 barrack (tech lab as soon as barrack is finished)
15 orbital
*This probably looks confusing as it is, just watch the replay and you’ll have a better understanding.*
Watched the replays, and your statement about it looking just like a normal reaper expand is false. Someone not familiar with this opener might see the tech lab on the rax, assume reaper expand, and turn around and go home... but that's about the only way they will mistake your build for reaper expand. How to spot this build:First thing to point out are some of the differences between this build and a reaper expand: -Reaper expand gets a marine before techlab (most of the time) -Reaper expand doesn't cut an scv at 15supply -Reaper expand doesn't delay the OC ~30seconds -Reaper expand doesn't get a 2nd barracks before CCSo, when scouting your Terran opponent, if you see a tech lab before marine, feel free to use your scouting scv to scout his entire base, because he can't do anything about it without the marine (tech lab before marine could just mean a greedier reaper expand than normal, so it could still be a reaper expand. In either case, continue scouting). If your pretty good at paying attention to what your opponent is doing, you will easily spot the scv cutting and the super delayed OC. If you do in fact notice the scv cutting + delayed OC, this either means he has a really bad build order, or hes up to something fishy. In either case, because he is already behind an scv (possibly 2 if you killed his scout) and it's safe to sacrifice your scouting scv to scout his entire base. In which case you will most likely find [b]A SECOND FUCKING BARRACKS[b]. Clearly not a reaper expand. Key timings4:00 first reaper pops. 2nd tech lab goes down. 5:20 about the earliest 3 reapers can be IN your base, but the games I looked at, Pride hit with 3-4 at like 5:45-6:00 *Reapers take 45seconds to build *Tech labs take 25seconds to build *Marauders take 30seconds to build *Concussive shell takes 60seconds to research So lets say you scout the 2nd barracks with a tech lab building at 4:00. (you will probably see the 2nd barracks earlier than this, but the tech lab wont go down until 4:00) If you throw down a tech lab of your own and start building a marauder + conc shell, your timings will look like this: 4:00 (tech lab of your own) 4:25 (tech lab finishes, marauder starts, conc shell starts) 4:55 marauder#1 5:25 marauder#2 + conc shell (this is when his 3reaper hits) 5:55 IF YOU WANT A 3rd marauder, feel free, but 2 marauders is pretty good. this is when you'd have 3 marauders and he'd have 4 reapers. I have to go now, but I'll say this before I leave: Delayed reapers in TvT is a neat strategy, but this build is too greedy and too easy to scout. It cuts too many corners, and obvious ones at that (cutting first marine, cutting an scv, delaying orbital, etc). The games that I watched you won because a) your opponent was thrown off because you are a notorious cheeser, b) your opponent did a poor job scouting, and wasn't prepared for your cheese, c) your opponent wasn't even trying (e.g. tQwannabe's mass hellion). Additionally, even some of the games where you were successful in expanding and harassing, you didn't gain any advantage economically (see Etsurlizzuma, many scv kills) because you cut scv production in order to be so aggressive. I applaud you for trying something new and sharing it with us here at Team Liquid, but I'm afraid this is just another quasi-cheese that will fail now that people are aware of it. Due to my recent games with the full scouting of the base, i proxy my 2nd barrack, so it indeed looks like a reaper expand earliest i have gotten was at 3 reapers.. 5:10 at their base. 3-4 reapers at 5:45- 6:00 false.. which replay was that? ill look at it when i get out of the shower. vs aldehyde
Ok so yes, on close air position shattered temple (and maybe metalop) it will come earlier, that should be a given. Also, a lot of the success relied on aldehyde scouting you last and not looking for the barracks in good position to pump reapers into his base. So I guess on close air spawn metalop/shattered check for that positioning of the 2nd rax, if it isnt there, it either means reaper expand or 3 reapers delayed ~10 seconds, so 5:20 like i said (it takes a reaper at least 10 additional seconds to get from most other places).
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btw, any build is be to greedy and easily scoutable. Cloak banshee for example... If you see it coming and you're able to stop it, they are behind in some aspect. If you don't see it coming.. you die..
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On June 22 2011 06:49 spbelky wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 06:42 PrideTV wrote:On June 22 2011 06:40 spbelky wrote:On June 22 2011 06:38 PrideTV wrote:On June 22 2011 06:32 spbelky wrote:On June 22 2011 04:37 PrideTV wrote:
General
The cool part about this build is it looks like a normal reaper expand.
Build
10 supply
12 barrack (tech lab as soon as barrack is finished)
12 refinery
14 barrack (tech lab as soon as barrack is finished)
15 orbital
*This probably looks confusing as it is, just watch the replay and you’ll have a better understanding.*
Watched the replays, and your statement about it looking just like a normal reaper expand is false. Someone not familiar with this opener might see the tech lab on the rax, assume reaper expand, and turn around and go home... but that's about the only way they will mistake your build for reaper expand. How to spot this build:First thing to point out are some of the differences between this build and a reaper expand: -Reaper expand gets a marine before techlab (most of the time) -Reaper expand doesn't cut an scv at 15supply -Reaper expand doesn't delay the OC ~30seconds -Reaper expand doesn't get a 2nd barracks before CCSo, when scouting your Terran opponent, if you see a tech lab before marine, feel free to use your scouting scv to scout his entire base, because he can't do anything about it without the marine (tech lab before marine could just mean a greedier reaper expand than normal, so it could still be a reaper expand. In either case, continue scouting). If your pretty good at paying attention to what your opponent is doing, you will easily spot the scv cutting and the super delayed OC. If you do in fact notice the scv cutting + delayed OC, this either means he has a really bad build order, or hes up to something fishy. In either case, because he is already behind an scv (possibly 2 if you killed his scout) and it's safe to sacrifice your scouting scv to scout his entire base. In which case you will most likely find [b]A SECOND FUCKING BARRACKS[b]. Clearly not a reaper expand. Key timings4:00 first reaper pops. 2nd tech lab goes down. 5:20 about the earliest 3 reapers can be IN your base, but the games I looked at, Pride hit with 3-4 at like 5:45-6:00 *Reapers take 45seconds to build *Tech labs take 25seconds to build *Marauders take 30seconds to build *Concussive shell takes 60seconds to research So lets say you scout the 2nd barracks with a tech lab building at 4:00. (you will probably see the 2nd barracks earlier than this, but the tech lab wont go down until 4:00) If you throw down a tech lab of your own and start building a marauder + conc shell, your timings will look like this: 4:00 (tech lab of your own) 4:25 (tech lab finishes, marauder starts, conc shell starts) 4:55 marauder#1 5:25 marauder#2 + conc shell (this is when his 3reaper hits) 5:55 IF YOU WANT A 3rd marauder, feel free, but 2 marauders is pretty good. this is when you'd have 3 marauders and he'd have 4 reapers. I have to go now, but I'll say this before I leave: Delayed reapers in TvT is a neat strategy, but this build is too greedy and too easy to scout. It cuts too many corners, and obvious ones at that (cutting first marine, cutting an scv, delaying orbital, etc). The games that I watched you won because a) your opponent was thrown off because you are a notorious cheeser, b) your opponent did a poor job scouting, and wasn't prepared for your cheese, c) your opponent wasn't even trying (e.g. tQwannabe's mass hellion). Additionally, even some of the games where you were successful in expanding and harassing, you didn't gain any advantage economically (see Etsurlizzuma, many scv kills) because you cut scv production in order to be so aggressive. I applaud you for trying something new and sharing it with us here at Team Liquid, but I'm afraid this is just another quasi-cheese that will fail now that people are aware of it. Due to my recent games with the full scouting of the base, i proxy my 2nd barrack, so it indeed looks like a reaper expand earliest i have gotten was at 3 reapers.. 5:10 at their base. 3-4 reapers at 5:45- 6:00 false.. which replay was that? ill look at it when i get out of the shower. vs aldehyde ok so yes, on close air position shattered temple (and maybe metalop) it will come earlier, that should be a given. Also, aldehyde a lot of the success relied on aldehyde scouting you last and not looking for the barracks in good position to pump reapers into his base. So i guess on close air spawn metalop/shattered check for that positioning of the 2nd rax, if it isnt there, it either means reaper expand or 3 reapers delayed ~10 seconds, so 5:20 like i said (it takes a reaper at least 10 additional seconds to get from most other places).
btw, when was the last time you seen recent tvt where one terran goes concussive shell in anticipation of mass reapers? never.....
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On June 22 2011 06:51 PrideTV wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 06:49 spbelky wrote:On June 22 2011 06:42 PrideTV wrote:On June 22 2011 06:40 spbelky wrote:On June 22 2011 06:38 PrideTV wrote:On June 22 2011 06:32 spbelky wrote:On June 22 2011 04:37 PrideTV wrote:
General
The cool part about this build is it looks like a normal reaper expand.
Build
10 supply
12 barrack (tech lab as soon as barrack is finished)
12 refinery
14 barrack (tech lab as soon as barrack is finished)
15 orbital
*This probably looks confusing as it is, just watch the replay and you’ll have a better understanding.*
Watched the replays, and your statement about it looking just like a normal reaper expand is false. Someone not familiar with this opener might see the tech lab on the rax, assume reaper expand, and turn around and go home... but that's about the only way they will mistake your build for reaper expand. How to spot this build:First thing to point out are some of the differences between this build and a reaper expand: -Reaper expand gets a marine before techlab (most of the time) -Reaper expand doesn't cut an scv at 15supply -Reaper expand doesn't delay the OC ~30seconds -Reaper expand doesn't get a 2nd barracks before CCSo, when scouting your Terran opponent, if you see a tech lab before marine, feel free to use your scouting scv to scout his entire base, because he can't do anything about it without the marine (tech lab before marine could just mean a greedier reaper expand than normal, so it could still be a reaper expand. In either case, continue scouting). If your pretty good at paying attention to what your opponent is doing, you will easily spot the scv cutting and the super delayed OC. If you do in fact notice the scv cutting + delayed OC, this either means he has a really bad build order, or hes up to something fishy. In either case, because he is already behind an scv (possibly 2 if you killed his scout) and it's safe to sacrifice your scouting scv to scout his entire base. In which case you will most likely find [b]A SECOND FUCKING BARRACKS[b]. Clearly not a reaper expand. Key timings4:00 first reaper pops. 2nd tech lab goes down. 5:20 about the earliest 3 reapers can be IN your base, but the games I looked at, Pride hit with 3-4 at like 5:45-6:00 *Reapers take 45seconds to build *Tech labs take 25seconds to build *Marauders take 30seconds to build *Concussive shell takes 60seconds to research So lets say you scout the 2nd barracks with a tech lab building at 4:00. (you will probably see the 2nd barracks earlier than this, but the tech lab wont go down until 4:00) If you throw down a tech lab of your own and start building a marauder + conc shell, your timings will look like this: 4:00 (tech lab of your own) 4:25 (tech lab finishes, marauder starts, conc shell starts) 4:55 marauder#1 5:25 marauder#2 + conc shell (this is when his 3reaper hits) 5:55 IF YOU WANT A 3rd marauder, feel free, but 2 marauders is pretty good. this is when you'd have 3 marauders and he'd have 4 reapers. I have to go now, but I'll say this before I leave: Delayed reapers in TvT is a neat strategy, but this build is too greedy and too easy to scout. It cuts too many corners, and obvious ones at that (cutting first marine, cutting an scv, delaying orbital, etc). The games that I watched you won because a) your opponent was thrown off because you are a notorious cheeser, b) your opponent did a poor job scouting, and wasn't prepared for your cheese, c) your opponent wasn't even trying (e.g. tQwannabe's mass hellion). Additionally, even some of the games where you were successful in expanding and harassing, you didn't gain any advantage economically (see Etsurlizzuma, many scv kills) because you cut scv production in order to be so aggressive. I applaud you for trying something new and sharing it with us here at Team Liquid, but I'm afraid this is just another quasi-cheese that will fail now that people are aware of it. Due to my recent games with the full scouting of the base, i proxy my 2nd barrack, so it indeed looks like a reaper expand earliest i have gotten was at 3 reapers.. 5:10 at their base. 3-4 reapers at 5:45- 6:00 false.. which replay was that? ill look at it when i get out of the shower. vs aldehyde ok so yes, on close air position shattered temple (and maybe metalop) it will come earlier, that should be a given. Also, aldehyde a lot of the success relied on aldehyde scouting you last and not looking for the barracks in good position to pump reapers into his base. So i guess on close air spawn metalop/shattered check for that positioning of the 2nd rax, if it isnt there, it either means reaper expand or 3 reapers delayed ~10 seconds, so 5:20 like i said (it takes a reaper at least 10 additional seconds to get from most other places). btw, when was the last time you seen recent tvt where one terran goes concussive shell in anticipation of mass reapers? never..... Also this build punishes greedy players. There are players who goes 1 marine.. tech lab reaper.. to reactor barrack without producing any more marines while fast expo and putting up a fac.
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On June 22 2011 06:29 Mr_Kyo wrote:
Easily scouted. If you see techlab first, then you would assume reaper and prepare for it. Then the element of surprise is gone and reapers could even jump on a cliff into a trap or simply do no damage. Not saying you shouldn't do it, just doesnt seem effective.
Well, the threat of reapers is the same threat as Mutas and banshees, if they move out you can counterattack easily. They don´t have to do damage to be effective
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also on a side note, i'm notorious for 2 marauder pushes as well. Most players would put a bunker at their front ramp, thus less marines or less of something because of that 100 mineral spent on the bunker.
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On June 22 2011 06:56 PrideTV wrote:
also on a side note, i'm notorious for 2 marauder pushes as well. Most players would put a bunker at their front ramp, thus less marines or less of something because of that 100 mineral spent on the bunker.
That's nice for you, but I assume you posted this here to share with the community so we could try it, so the metagame between YOU personally and the rest of the grandmaster league doesn't really apply to us.
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On June 22 2011 05:18 windsupernova wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 05:05 OhMyGawd wrote:
Oh Pride...You never cease to impress me with your cheese.
Blizzard Bless the Terran race How is this cheese? I think a similar build was done in a TvT in a GSL match, I don´t exactly remember which one but it was on dualsight it did surprisingly ton of damage
It was slayers ganzi vs clide i do believe.
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On June 22 2011 06:38 PrideTV wrote:
Due to my recent games with the full scouting of the base, i proxy my 2nd barrack, so it indeed looks like a reaper expand
earliest i have gotten was at 3 reapers.. 5:10 at their base. 3-4 reapers at 5:45- 6:00 false..
hahahahaha, proxy barracks, always works like a charm :D
same thing in ZvT I can't tell the difference between a 1rax Expand or a 2rax (1proxy) rush.
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On June 22 2011 05:00 Mafs wrote:
Im but I really like using a couple reapers in TvP just to punish some protoss that decide to go fast nexus or lots of sentries early game vs T and try to get a few probe kills. Didn't expect it to work that well in TvT cause 3-4 maruders just destroy mass ammounts of reapers. Lets hope to see it used more in TvZ late game instead of drops.
notice how this build don't build "mass reapers", but just 3,and, unless your opponent did a marauder first build, those 3 reapers will get into his base before a marauder pop-out.
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I remember seeing something like this vs Z in a Day9 daily on (I think) MMA's builds. It can definitely be effective as it lets you exert a ton of early map control.
The only caveat to this build that I saw/Day9 talked about on that daily is that you can't lose reapers because they're a huge investment in terms of time (90 seconds of reaper production on one rax, 45 on the other) which means you'll have less marines than your opponent if you aren't able to pick off a few marines early on. So the reapers act as an early defense by virtue of their mobility/sniping potential, but you can't lose them, as they are your only defense for a while until you get caught back up on army.
I'll take a look at some of these reps when I get home.
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United States7483 Posts
On June 22 2011 06:16 ButtCraft wrote:
I really like the idea of this build. I'm ~1400 master Terran for reference.
The current standard is 1-1-1 openings with absolutely zero units capable of killing early reapers. You take a look at any of the "standard" TvT builds, and they all start off with only marines.
That being said, I'm not sure how this would work on really long spawning distance maps like tal'darim altar. It seems like hellions would be out in time.
EDIT:
Isn't it "barracks"? The singular form of "barracks" is just "barracks".
It's kinda weird. In the English language, properly, the singular form is actually barrack, and barracks is the plural. However, in SC2, the singular is barracks, so I guess the plural would be barrackses or something weird.
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Cool build pride, though to those saying to do it in TvP that's kind of a bad idea.
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♥
solid build, i like it. definitely will try it out today.
SCDPride, You're My Best Friend.
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wouldnt this build get eaten alive by gas first banshees that kill your reapers then go to your base
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On June 22 2011 08:08 seefour wrote:
wouldnt this build get eaten alive by gas first banshees that kill your reapers then go to your base
scvs will then get eaten by the reapers before the banshee even pops.
On June 22 2011 07:53 sNatch wrote:
♥
solid build, i like it. definitely will try it out today.
SCDPride, You're My Best Friend.
♥
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On June 22 2011 08:08 seefour wrote:
wouldnt this build get eaten alive by gas first banshees that kill your reapers then go to your base
ya everyone that went banshee got rolled by pride, cuz while his starport is delayed, its up in time to build a defensive viking, which is all it takes.
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I used to do something similar to this back when I was in gold league, but of course it wasn't very well executed. Now that I'm diamond, I figured I'd give it another shot, and my first match with it was actually a TvP instead of a TvT. Still worked out pretty well, though!
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-216682.jpg)
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On June 22 2011 08:08 seefour wrote:
wouldnt this build get eaten alive by gas first banshees that kill your reapers then go to your base
I actually just did this to a 1500 master who went for the early banshee, and killed all of his marines/half of his scv's before the banshee got out.
I threw down like 8 turrets because my macro slipped while I was microing the reapers, so his banshees didn't do anything.
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On June 22 2011 09:22 ButtCraft wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 08:08 seefour wrote:
wouldnt this build get eaten alive by gas first banshees that kill your reapers then go to your base
I actually just did this to a 1500 master who went for the early banshee, and killed all of his marines/half of his scv's before the banshee got out. I threw down like 8 turrets because my macro slipped while I was microing the reapers, so his banshees didn't do anything.
whats great about reapers is when I see the banshee popping, I run away. The banshee won't camp at their base forever and when they push out... counter attack ftw!
By the time they hit your base, you should already have or begun building turrets.
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I know all to well the power of Reapers early on in the game. On macro maps this is usually my opening because Marauder opening in TvT are unheard, and 1/1/1s are the most common with low Marine counts. And continue to make them from two Barracks until the Starport is completed.
As you said the counter is Reactor opening, as it simply outproduces (by x2) even 2rax Reaper, but this also makes for a nice excuse to start the 2nd Refinery for fast Combat Shield and Stimpack. And then switching to 2rax reactor/factory tech on 2 bases.
On a bizzare note, I've also been playing around with a late game Reaper/Marauder/Banshee mix to counter Marine/Siege Tank/Medivac. The only problem is the long build time of Banshees and Reapers making it large mineral excess to choose between mass expanding or excessive production factilities to cover this weakness. Success varies on Banshee control and how fast I can snipe tanks before the opponent can attack.
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On June 22 2011 10:36 aaycumi wrote:
I know all to well the power of Reapers early on in the game. On macro maps this is usually my opening because Marauder opening in TvT are unheard, and 1/1/1s are the most common with low Marine counts. And continue to make them from two Barracks until the Starport is completed.
As you said the counter is Reactor opening, as it simply outproduces (by x2) even 2rax Reaper, but this also makes for a nice excuse to start the 2nd Refinery for fast Combat Shield and Stimpack. And then switching to 2rax reactor/factory tech on 2 bases.
On a bizzare note, I've also been playing around with a late game Reaper/Marauder/Banshee mix to counter Marine/Siege Tank/Medivac. The only problem is the long build time of Banshees and Reapers making it large mineral excess to choose between mass expanding or excessive production factilities to cover this weakness. Success varies on Banshee control and how fast I can snipe tanks before the opponent can attack.
the problem here is with reactor barracks, be ready to gear up for some sort of timing push. With that in mind all you have are a handful of reaper, marines and marauders here and there. So in general if you don't do some kind of dmg or they if they didn't expanded... prepared to get rolled by 2348324234y24 units
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On June 22 2011 07:15 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 06:16 ButtCraft wrote:
I really like the idea of this build. I'm ~1400 master Terran for reference.
The current standard is 1-1-1 openings with absolutely zero units capable of killing early reapers. You take a look at any of the "standard" TvT builds, and they all start off with only marines.
That being said, I'm not sure how this would work on really long spawning distance maps like tal'darim altar. It seems like hellions would be out in time.
EDIT:
Isn't it "barracks"? The singular form of "barracks" is just "barracks". It's kinda weird. In the English language, properly, the singular form is actually barrack, and barracks is the plural. However, in SC2, the singular is barracks, so I guess the plural would be barrackses or something weird.
1 barracks, 2 barracks. Barracks is generally used in the plural already, even when it's referring to just a single building.
Also, hellions vs reapers is an odd contest - it's along the lines of speedling vs reaper - if the hellion isn't micro'd well, a reaper will win 1v1. If there's 3 reapers, I don't think a single hellion will actually be able to fight them effectively.
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Met Pride on ladder the other day on Shattered. I've been doing a very similar build like this for a while now and usually do it on Shattered as well. Yet this time I forgot and got my ass handed to me.
It's a nice opening and can do significant damage a lot of the time. I usually transition into marine/medivac while on two base and get tanks when I get my third.
You can transition into pretty much anything, though.
-Edit- Haha, I see that the game against me was even included in the replays. My response was kind of terrible =(
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On June 22 2011 10:58 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 07:15 Whitewing wrote:On June 22 2011 06:16 ButtCraft wrote:
I really like the idea of this build. I'm ~1400 master Terran for reference.
The current standard is 1-1-1 openings with absolutely zero units capable of killing early reapers. You take a look at any of the "standard" TvT builds, and they all start off with only marines.
That being said, I'm not sure how this would work on really long spawning distance maps like tal'darim altar. It seems like hellions would be out in time.
EDIT:
Isn't it "barracks"? The singular form of "barracks" is just "barracks". It's kinda weird. In the English language, properly, the singular form is actually barrack, and barracks is the plural. However, in SC2, the singular is barracks, so I guess the plural would be barrackses or something weird. 1 barracks, 2 barracks. Barracks is generally used in the plural already, even when it's referring to just a single building. Also, hellions vs reapers is an odd contest - it's along the lines of speedling vs reaper - if the hellion isn't micro'd well, a reaper will win 1v1. If there's 3 reapers, I don't think a single hellion will actually be able to fight them effectively.
1 hellion will never beat 1 reaper regardless of how well you micro it unless there are scvs involved. Their dmg to light units are ridiculous strong :D
On June 22 2011 11:00 Aldehyde wrote:
Met Pride on ladder the other day on Shattered. I've been doing a very similar build like this for a while now and usually do it on Shattered as well. Yet this time I forgot and got my ass handed to me.
It's a nice opening and can do significant damage a lot of the time. I usually transition into marine/medivac while on two base and get tanks when I get my third.
You can transition into pretty much anything, though
-Edit- Haha, I see that the game against me was even included in the replays. My response was kind of terrible =(
lol, you're famous now =]. I hate pure bio to late tanks. Tankies are to strong . I usually then go air battle before the chance of them going banshnee is soooo high up there
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I don't know, I can usually hold my own with my marines and medivacs and get my third up before my opponent and then throw down 3+ factories and start churning out a lot of tanks.
Holding cloaked banshees off is not a big issue for me either. After the three reapers are done I have 100 gas and 200 minerals so that's 2 marines and stim. I also get early engi bays for double upgrades and putting a turret up on my nat and main.
The only thing that can be trouble are marine/tank pushes off one base but I can easily pull workers to hold that.
Might be saying a lot of obvious shit. Getting tired considering it's 4 am here in Sweden 
Looking forward to meeting you on ladder some day again.
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reapers own... i'm sticking to my marines though (fact+star+medivac =300 gas before i can do the same action as your reapers) 6 reapers or 4 marines and a medivac...pretty sure your build wins lol
it's so cheap how reapers can go in and snipe off depots and see all your tech (fact can do that too i guess)...i'm usually not worried about reaper harrass as i always go 2 rax early aggression into bunkers and FE then more raxes lol. if they can't kill me with their reapers, they're the ones who are going to be "in a whole lotta pain." honestly a brilliant build, and to all those who call it "cheese," well then my terran play-style would be uber cheese? melted cheese? geiko 3 rax? bunker rush? 6 rax? lol let's be reasonable
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Had someone try this on me in low league ladder a few days ago, was surprised but it came pretty late.
Didn't have any units in position, but somehow I was totally on the ball at catching it and moving my SCVs fast enough, only losing a few of them. Regardless, having 3 does guarantee some significant worker line damage regardless though - I'd dread to think how punishing this could be at higher levels of play.
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Dignitas Merz just did a 3 reaper rush against the cookiemonster in the eg mastercup. He didn't do it like how you plan and instead pushed up the ramp with an scv, the 3 reapers and 1 marine.
Cloud - wtf was that
merz - pro stuff
Pro indeed, Pride :D
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Damn, this looks awesome. Nice alternative to the incredibly repetitive and dull banshee rushing.
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On June 22 2011 11:48 xxSK8rGUy277xx wrote:
Dignitas Merz just did a 3 reaper rush against the cookiemonster in the eg mastercup. He didn't do it like how you plan and instead pushed up the ramp with an scv, the 3 reapers and 1 marine.
Cloud - wtf was that
merz - pro stuff
Pro indeed, Pride :D
I'm actually going to try that today, with the marine and later reapers. It will look even more liike a reaper expand :D
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On June 22 2011 11:53 PrideTV wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 11:48 xxSK8rGUy277xx wrote:
Dignitas Merz just did a 3 reaper rush against the cookiemonster in the eg mastercup. He didn't do it like how you plan and instead pushed up the ramp with an scv, the 3 reapers and 1 marine.
Cloud - wtf was that
merz - pro stuff
Pro indeed, Pride :D I'm actually going to try that today, with the marine and later reapers. It will look even more liike a reaper expand :D
Awesome build pride! gonna try them in ladder. Where did you find the replay of Merz doing the alternative build?
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On June 22 2011 13:03 Jineus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 11:53 PrideTV wrote:On June 22 2011 11:48 xxSK8rGUy277xx wrote:
Dignitas Merz just did a 3 reaper rush against the cookiemonster in the eg mastercup. He didn't do it like how you plan and instead pushed up the ramp with an scv, the 3 reapers and 1 marine.
Cloud - wtf was that
merz - pro stuff
Pro indeed, Pride :D I'm actually going to try that today, with the marine and later reapers. It will look even more liike a reaper expand :D Awesome build pride! gonna try them in ladder. Where did you find the replay of Merz doing the alternative build?
I actually do not have the replay. hm.. someone mentioned about it though.
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On June 22 2011 13:03 Jineus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 11:53 PrideTV wrote:On June 22 2011 11:48 xxSK8rGUy277xx wrote:
Dignitas Merz just did a 3 reaper rush against the cookiemonster in the eg mastercup. He didn't do it like how you plan and instead pushed up the ramp with an scv, the 3 reapers and 1 marine.
Cloud - wtf was that
merz - pro stuff
Pro indeed, Pride :D I'm actually going to try that today, with the marine and later reapers. It will look even more liike a reaper expand :D Awesome build pride! gonna try them in ladder. Where did you find the replay of Merz doing the alternative build? it says right in the quote that you already read, EG mastercup. search yo
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Nice gonna try this out.
Wow Nadagast was mad at the end hahahaha
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On June 22 2011 16:41 Dr_Ngo wrote:
Nice gonna try this out.
Wow Nadagast was mad at the end hahahaha
majority of the games, I don't believe any of them actually gg.
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Worthy to note that this build totally wrecks blue flame openings, because reapers own hellions (Who'da thunk?)
Plus one, I dig it
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On June 22 2011 18:14 Meta wrote:Worthy to note that this build totally wrecks blue flame openings, because reapers own hellions (Who'da thunk?) Plus one, I dig it
if its super fast blue flames which is tech lab on barrack, switch and blah blah.. .. In other words, less marines = pwnage..
THE GRIM REAPER IS HERE!
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ive actually faced this build while doing gas first banshee openings and i just build 1 bunker on my mineral line to stall for the banshee then killed the reapers and gone to my oponents base and won because my starport was so much faster than his. 1400 masters. With this build you get your expansion at the 5:30 mark so this puts you in a crushing eco position against the reaper build. Its 100% likely that this build will be scouted as you dont build the first marine
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Now i wonder why no one says gg when they lose to pride? 
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i gonna try this for sure as i always felt that reapers can be very good but i failed using them in (too) small numbers.
Also obviously mass-reapers never felt like a valid strategy.
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On June 22 2011 19:10 seefour wrote:
ive actually faced this build while doing gas first banshee openings and i just build 1 bunker on my mineral line to stall for the banshee then killed the reapers and gone to my oponents base and won because my starport was so much faster than his. 1400 masters. With this build you get your expansion at the 5:30 mark so this puts you in a crushing eco position against the reaper build. Its 100% likely that this build will be scouted as you dont build the first marine
bunker at your mineral line? lol. I haven't encountered that before ahahahhh. Reapers dmg to building is off the chart =]. If you won't let me kill your units, i'll kill the building that's building the unit.
On June 22 2011 19:11 Zath.erin wrote:Now i wonder why no one says gg when they lose to pride?
probably on tilt mode :D
On June 22 2011 19:11 ppeeddaa wrote:i gonna try this for sure as i always felt that reapers can be very good but i failed using them in (too) small numbers. Also obviously mass-reapers never felt like a valid strategy.
3 is the magic number :D
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On June 22 2011 19:13 PrideTV wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 19:10 seefour wrote:
ive actually faced this build while doing gas first banshee openings and i just build 1 bunker on my mineral line to stall for the banshee then killed the reapers and gone to my oponents base and won because my starport was so much faster than his. 1400 masters. With this build you get your expansion at the 5:30 mark so this puts you in a crushing eco position against the reaper build. Its 100% likely that this build will be scouted as you dont build the first marine bunker at your mineral line? lol. I haven't encountered that before ahahahhh. Reapers dmg to building is off the chart =]. If you won't let me kill your units, i'll kill the building that's building the unit. Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 19:11 Zath.erin wrote:Now i wonder why no one says gg when they lose to pride? probably on tilt mode :D Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 19:11 ppeeddaa wrote:i gonna try this for sure as i always felt that reapers can be very good but i failed using them in (too) small numbers. Also obviously mass-reapers never felt like a valid strategy. 3 is the magic number :D
All ins usually tilt people :p
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On June 22 2011 19:15 Zath.erin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 19:13 PrideTV wrote:On June 22 2011 19:10 seefour wrote:
ive actually faced this build while doing gas first banshee openings and i just build 1 bunker on my mineral line to stall for the banshee then killed the reapers and gone to my oponents base and won because my starport was so much faster than his. 1400 masters. With this build you get your expansion at the 5:30 mark so this puts you in a crushing eco position against the reaper build. Its 100% likely that this build will be scouted as you dont build the first marine bunker at your mineral line? lol. I haven't encountered that before ahahahhh. Reapers dmg to building is off the chart =]. If you won't let me kill your units, i'll kill the building that's building the unit. On June 22 2011 19:11 Zath.erin wrote:Now i wonder why no one says gg when they lose to pride? probably on tilt mode :D On June 22 2011 19:11 ppeeddaa wrote:i gonna try this for sure as i always felt that reapers can be very good but i failed using them in (too) small numbers. Also obviously mass-reapers never felt like a valid strategy. 3 is the magic number :D All ins usually tilt people :p
you can transition out of this build -P
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[QUOTE]On June 22 2011 19:13 PrideTV wrote:
[QUOTE]On June 22 2011 19:10 seefour wrote:
ive actually faced this build while doing gas first banshee openings and i just build 1 bunker on my mineral line to stall for the banshee then killed the reapers and gone to my oponents base and won because my starport was so much faster than his. 1400 masters. With this build you get your expansion at the 5:30 mark so this puts you in a crushing eco position against the reaper build. Its 100% likely that this build will be scouted as you dont build the first marine[/QUOTE]
bunker at your mineral line? lol. I haven't encountered that before ahahahhh. Reapers dmg to building is off the chart =]. If you won't let me kill your units, i'll kill the building that's building the unit.
[QUOTE]
The thing is the banshee is at least half done when the reapers get there and even if you kill the tlab the banshee still gets out
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[QUOTE]On June 22 2011 19:25 seefour wrote:
[QUOTE]On June 22 2011 19:13 PrideTV wrote:
[QUOTE]On June 22 2011 19:10 seefour wrote:
ive actually faced this build while doing gas first banshee openings and i just build 1 bunker on my mineral line to stall for the banshee then killed the reapers and gone to my oponents base and won because my starport was so much faster than his. 1400 masters. With this build you get your expansion at the 5:30 mark so this puts you in a crushing eco position against the reaper build. Its 100% likely that this build will be scouted as you dont build the first marine[/QUOTE]
bunker at your mineral line? lol. I haven't encountered that before ahahahhh. Reapers dmg to building is off the chart =]. If you won't let me kill your units, i'll kill the building that's building the unit.
[QUOTE]
The thing is the banshee is at least half done when the reapers get there and even if you kill the tlab the banshee still gets out [/QUOTE]
reapers hit around 5:20. There's no way it's even remotely possible for your banshee to be half way done.
On a side note. bunker at mineral line won't work. Reapers can still target the outter part of your mineral patches and the scvs gathering gas.
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On June 22 2011 19:25 seefour wrote:The thing is the banshee is at least half done when the reapers get there and even if you kill the tlab the banshee still gets out Rotfl, what? You don't even have starport finished at the time reapers come in.
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Reaper is a good choice for TVZ
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Lol awesome build Pride, I love reapers. I actually play Protoss but I might do this to one of my practise partners for luls.
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Was doing this a bit yesterday, was a good build. Although I faced trouble when the scv comes early and stays in my base. (Guess I should proxy like you.)
Also had trouble vs early tank builds, but I still had time to kill off his reaper, 3 marines, and 3-4 scvs before it popped. So IDK if that really counts as trouble
Seems everyones intial reaction to this build is quick banshees, so make sure you pop a viking out before medivac.
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I used this on close positions (air) The Shattered Temple and it worked fine, didn't outright win the game but I got a decisive lead. Early tanks and marauder kinda killed me on another game, he went rax->techlab->marauder/concussive shells, not much a reaper can do at that point.
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I think I played you recently using this build. I dont remember the outcome but I will check for the replay when i get home.
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On June 22 2011 15:17 Nexic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 13:03 Jineus wrote:On June 22 2011 11:53 PrideTV wrote:On June 22 2011 11:48 xxSK8rGUy277xx wrote:
Dignitas Merz just did a 3 reaper rush against the cookiemonster in the eg mastercup. He didn't do it like how you plan and instead pushed up the ramp with an scv, the 3 reapers and 1 marine.
Cloud - wtf was that
merz - pro stuff
Pro indeed, Pride :D I'm actually going to try that today, with the marine and later reapers. It will look even more liike a reaper expand :D Awesome build pride! gonna try them in ladder. Where did you find the replay of Merz doing the alternative build? it says right in the quote that you already read, EG mastercup. search yo
I did, but I can't find it. Not only I'm not familiar with such thing as EG mastercup, I'm not sure if he said it was Merz vs Cloud or Merz vs Cookiemonster
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I tried this build today with great success. It is also a lot of fun to micro Thanks!
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On June 22 2011 19:55 Cano wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 19:25 seefour wrote:The thing is the banshee is at least half done when the reapers get there and even if you kill the tlab the banshee still gets out Rotfl, what? You don't even have starport finished at the time reapers come in.
I did the math and the banshee is building before the reapers get there and you only need to stall for a few secs to get it out. This is gas first btw.
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I use this alot when I am close air position TvT in shakuras.....works really well.Youc an save your reeapers and when the enemy attacks your base, you can wreck havoc on the mineral line.
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the reaper is a very beautiful unit when used correctly. i always love to see people using them in a effective way.
fear the reaper!
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I played against this or similar to this.. last night. It indeed did huge damage aka killed like every marine.. :D and few scv's..
It looks just like reaper expand and I wasn't expecting to see that many reapers when it is usually that 1 scouting reaper
I was tired and I wasn't kind of interested in that game anymore so I did all-in with marine+hellion+scv. Basically I just walked over him in the end.
Maybe I'll try this someday in my TvT's, sounds fun to play with but pain to play against
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I use a very similar build in 2v2 games and it works very well... I'll be interested to watch your replay and try it in 1v1
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On June 23 2011 00:42 NuKedUFirst wrote:
I used this on close positions (air) The Shattered Temple and it worked fine, didn't outright win the game but I got a decisive lead. Early tanks and marauder kinda killed me on another game, he went rax->techlab->marauder/concussive shells, not much a reaper can do at that point.
At that point it's best to pull the reapers back and keep map control with them, when he moves out you can still move your reapers into his base and either do damage or force him to keep units in his base to defend (which does damage in its own right since it means his push is weaker to make up for the fact that you are a little behind).
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Cool rush, thanks for sharing!
@ButtCraft
Reapers can beat Hellions, unless he has more Hellions than your Reapers and he is able to get splash off.
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On June 23 2011 00:57 Jineus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 15:17 Nexic wrote:On June 22 2011 13:03 Jineus wrote:On June 22 2011 11:53 PrideTV wrote:On June 22 2011 11:48 xxSK8rGUy277xx wrote:
Dignitas Merz just did a 3 reaper rush against the cookiemonster in the eg mastercup. He didn't do it like how you plan and instead pushed up the ramp with an scv, the 3 reapers and 1 marine.
Cloud - wtf was that
merz - pro stuff
Pro indeed, Pride :D I'm actually going to try that today, with the marine and later reapers. It will look even more liike a reaper expand :D Awesome build pride! gonna try them in ladder. Where did you find the replay of Merz doing the alternative build? it says right in the quote that you already read, EG mastercup. search yo I did, but I can't find it. Not only I'm not familiar with such thing as EG mastercup, I'm not sure if he said it was Merz vs Cloud or Merz vs Cookiemonster
Here is a link to the VOD. The actual attack is pretty disappointing though... And as said he doesn't use the reapers like Pride describes, so I wouldn't really judge Pride's build based on this.
http://www.justin.tv/onemoregametv/b/288576284
Game 2 (with the reaper rush) starts around 15 minute mark.
And Cookie Monster is a nickname for Cloud .
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edit: im dumb and didn't watch the replay first. This is the best build I've seen from pride though.
but to add something to the thread
On June 23 2011 02:19 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Cool rush, thanks for sharing!
@ButtCraft
Reapers can beat Hellions, unless he has more Hellions than your Reapers and he is able to get splash off.
I think reapers > hellions only applies when hellions aren't micro'd.
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Well, reapers beat Hellions 1 on 1, so if both sides micro, the reapers will win.
Also, gosh darn it! I should have played my ladder game before, I was on a 9 win streak.
I face this Terran, and im like hahah hes going 3 reaper rush, good thing I read about it. But then his reapers come in an unexpected angle and my clever bunker placement wasn't so clever no more. And he sniped like 3 of my marines before they could get into the bunker T_T lol.
Anyways, dang this rush is strong!
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On June 23 2011 03:38 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Well, reapers beat Hellions 1 on 1, so if both sides micro, the reapers will win.
Also, gosh darn it! I should have played my ladder game before, I was on a 9 win streak.
I face this Terran, and im like hahah hes going 3 reaper rush, good thing I read about it. But then his reapers come in an unexpected angle and my clever bunker placement wasn't so clever no more. And he sniped like 3 of my marines before they could get into the bunker T_T lol.
Anyways, dang this rush is strong!
Uhh well hellions win when both sides micro because the hellions control the micro battle with their higher speed and range. 5 hits to kill a hellions vs 4 for a reaper and the hellion can make the hits trade at a 1:1 ratio. Not to mention the hellion can always run to get repaired because it's faster.
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The insane computer opponent will go with a similar build on certain maps in TvT.
From my experience, it seems to really be a great build if you have the multi-tasking to pull it off. The computer used it on XNC vs me, I had plenty of marines, but the computer kept going up cliff into main and back down, down other cliff into my 3rd, up other cliff into my natural, etc.
Reapers do insane dps to buildings ofc too, that game he took out my CC at my 3rd with ~7 reapers very very quickly, seriously took like 5-8 seconds to blow it up. nice for taking out add-ons in the main if you get enough reapers to kill it in a couple volleys.
Anyway, just wanted to say that they used it as not only an opening, but they kept about 7-10 reapers around in a pack almost all game and kept them out of harms way and constantly picking at me. I ended up getting tanks in good locations to stop the harass, but they had out macro'd me by that point. Seems like an interesting style and fun.
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On June 23 2011 03:38 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Well, reapers beat Hellions 1 on 1, so if both sides micro, the reapers will win.
Also, gosh darn it! I should have played my ladder game before, I was on a 9 win streak.
I face this Terran, and im like hahah hes going 3 reaper rush, good thing I read about it. But then his reapers come in an unexpected angle and my clever bunker placement wasn't so clever no more. And he sniped like 3 of my marines before they could get into the bunker T_T lol.
Anyways, dang this rush is strong!
Holy hell, that was you, wasn't it? You talking about the new maps should have tipped me off, but figured i'd try it anyway.
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I've been using this a lot in the past few month, but without cutting scv or delaying orbital. This means my reapers popped up only at 5:00.
A good counter is to simply keep all your marines together. Spreading marines to deny scouting is too risky in my opinion (against marines/scv, ghost openings, reapers openings, you want to have your 5-6 marines together).
3 reapers can take 4 clustered marines, but no more, and they will suffer heavy damages.
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this is my Go to Cheese for TvT
I will do this build, expand as i leave (incase I do no damage, if it does damage i still get extra scv prod and mules)
then add 2 rax with reactors get Stim and combat shields and push with about 30 marines plus the upgrades.
if you've done significant damage to their econ, it's impossible for them to catch up to your production, and they'd need a ton of bunkers to beat stimmed shielded marines.
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If you scout this (which you will cause he doesnt make a marine) then just make a tech lab make one marauder then use the techlab for something else.
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On June 22 2011 11:48 xxSK8rGUy277xx wrote:
Dignitas Merz just did a 3 reaper rush against the cookiemonster in the eg mastercup. He didn't do it like how you plan and instead pushed up the ramp with an scv, the 3 reapers and 1 marine.
Cloud - wtf was that
merz - pro stuff
Pro indeed, Pride :D
replay plz? or a screen shot? how does one push the ramp with reapers lol...sounds epic
i wonder if there's a way i can emulate this with rines...maybe float a barracks in and pump a critical amount of marines and have fast stim at home to snipe some worker/mule vs T - early worker snipes are so strong
oh and how many marines do i need to deal with 3 reapers effectively?
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On June 23 2011 04:43 IzieBoy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 11:48 xxSK8rGUy277xx wrote:
Dignitas Merz just did a 3 reaper rush against the cookiemonster in the eg mastercup. He didn't do it like how you plan and instead pushed up the ramp with an scv, the 3 reapers and 1 marine.
Cloud - wtf was that
merz - pro stuff
Pro indeed, Pride :D replay plz? or a screen shot? how does one push the ramp with reapers lol...sounds epic i wonder if there's a way i can emulate this with rines...maybe float a barracks in and pump a critical amount of marines and have fast stim at home to snipe some worker/mule vs T - early worker snipes are so strong oh and how many marines do i need to deal with 3 reapers effectively?
4 marines will beat 3 reapers if they are together and have the first hit on the reaper.
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I play this since 4 months(sometimes) it dont works agains good players.
Attack with 3 reaper and 2 scv´s they can tank the dmg.
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On June 23 2011 04:57 mouzLomo wrote:
I play this since 4 months(sometimes) it dont works agains good players.
Attack with 3 reaper and 2 scv´s they can tank the dmg.
I'll definitely try that sir. Problem with good players are they are extremely at times, this build punishes it.
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If it's 4 marines vs your 3 reapers, do you actually target each marine or does the reaper smart target?
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Love this build. Extremely effective. But as reapers are becoming more popular I feel people are going to start getting a marauder earlier and earlier.
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This build is easy to scout (no marines, fast techlab, cc doesn't goes orbital the same time with my cc), and because of the beauty of TL forum, from now on when I scout with my scv and see this build, i'll build my marauder or a fast tank lolz.
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On June 23 2011 05:05 Chaggi wrote:
If it's 4 marines vs your 3 reapers, do you actually target each marine or does the reaper smart target?
u want to try to snipe each individually marine
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Someone played this rush against me today in ladder. Luckily I opened with ghosts (I really think ghost openings in TvT are ridiculously strong) and by the time the reapers arrived, I had 2 ghosts out, which absolutely crushed these reapers without any problem.
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lol.. koreans have been opening reaper builds for a while now somone even did it recently in the team league ;d cant really say its ur build
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On June 23 2011 05:31 Lzuruha.FantaSy wrote:
lol.. koreans have been opening reaper builds for a while now somone even did it recently in the team league ;d cant really say its ur build
i posted before he even did it and plus his variation is diffferent sir, please don't spam my thread with useless information.
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Inovating and cool, thanks for sharing =). Always liked reapers.
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On June 23 2011 05:35 PrideTV wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 05:31 Lzuruha.FantaSy wrote:
lol.. koreans have been opening reaper builds for a while now somone even did it recently in the team league ;d cant really say its ur build i posted before he even did it and plus his variation is diffferent sir, please don't spam my thread with useless information.
? lol koreans have been doing it before you in every m/u trying out 2 rax reaper stop trying to steal credit thats like me saying i made the 4 gate .. lmao
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I always did this in beta, just never thought of posting a guide lol, especially since the patch came out right when I was about to write it. Turns out you wrote a more optimized build order that does not require nitro packs, so nice. It depends on the map, on Xel' Naga I will probably lose one or two Probes as I will not send my Stalker out if I see two raxes that early (expecting 2 rax Marauder SCV).
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On June 23 2011 04:14 Zachrin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 03:38 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Well, reapers beat Hellions 1 on 1, so if both sides micro, the reapers will win.
Also, gosh darn it! I should have played my ladder game before, I was on a 9 win streak.
I face this Terran, and im like hahah hes going 3 reaper rush, good thing I read about it. But then his reapers come in an unexpected angle and my clever bunker placement wasn't so clever no more. And he sniped like 3 of my marines before they could get into the bunker T_T lol.
Anyways, dang this rush is strong! Holy hell, that was you, wasn't it? You talking about the new maps should have tipped me off, but figured i'd try it anyway.
Haha hey man Yes that was me!
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On June 23 2011 06:09 Lzuruha.FantaSy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 05:35 PrideTV wrote:On June 23 2011 05:31 Lzuruha.FantaSy wrote:
lol.. koreans have been opening reaper builds for a while now somone even did it recently in the team league ;d cant really say its ur build i posted before he even did it and plus his variation is diffferent sir, please don't spam my thread with useless information. ? lol koreans have been doing it before you in every m/u trying out 2 rax reaper stop trying to steal credit thats like me saying i made the 4 gate .. lmao
tell me how this is even relevant to the topic?.. stop bashing..
you made the 4 gate? congrats.
edit2 and 3: you seem to be the only one bashing?
edit4: stay on topic..
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Nice guide; very entertaining replays. The big strength to the build I think is that you're better practiced in the ensuing scenarios than is your opponent, so even if the reapers don't lolololrape you're still in a good position.
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On June 23 2011 02:19 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Cool rush, thanks for sharing!
@ButtCraft
Reapers can beat Hellions, unless he has more Hellions than your Reapers and he is able to get splash off.
Right, but usually you'll see something like 5 marines and 1 hellion.
3 reapers dies to this pretty handily.
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On June 23 2011 04:43 IzieBoy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 11:48 xxSK8rGUy277xx wrote:
Dignitas Merz just did a 3 reaper rush against the cookiemonster in the eg mastercup. He didn't do it like how you plan and instead pushed up the ramp with an scv, the 3 reapers and 1 marine.
Cloud - wtf was that
merz - pro stuff
Pro indeed, Pride :D replay plz? or a screen shot? how does one push the ramp with reapers lol...sounds epic i wonder if there's a way i can emulate this with rines...maybe float a barracks in and pump a critical amount of marines and have fast stim at home to snipe some worker/mule vs T - early worker snipes are so strong oh and how many marines do i need to deal with 3 reapers effectively?
It was during the eg mastercup yesterday between dignitas and mym. I just checked and the vods aren't up. The attack didn't do too much damage from what I remember but I watched a lot of games last night. But just check onemoregame.tv for 6/21
Also just saw you Pride playing against Warden and added in the scvs to tank damage. He knew that you were doing it though and 2raxed and held it off really well. I'm curious how the build works against itself, is the person with better micro/positioning miles ahead or has it not been tested yet?
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On June 23 2011 07:13 xxSK8rGUy277xx wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 04:43 IzieBoy wrote:On June 22 2011 11:48 xxSK8rGUy277xx wrote:
Dignitas Merz just did a 3 reaper rush against the cookiemonster in the eg mastercup. He didn't do it like how you plan and instead pushed up the ramp with an scv, the 3 reapers and 1 marine.
Cloud - wtf was that
merz - pro stuff
Pro indeed, Pride :D replay plz? or a screen shot? how does one push the ramp with reapers lol...sounds epic i wonder if there's a way i can emulate this with rines...maybe float a barracks in and pump a critical amount of marines and have fast stim at home to snipe some worker/mule vs T - early worker snipes are so strong oh and how many marines do i need to deal with 3 reapers effectively? It was during the eg mastercup yesterday between dignitas and mym. I just checked and the vods aren't up. The attack didn't do too much damage from what I remember but I watched a lot of games last night. But just check onemoregame.tv for 6/21 Also just saw you Pride playing against Warden and added in the scvs to tank damage. He knew that you were doing it though and 2raxed and held it off really well. I'm curious how the build works against itself, is the person with better micro/positioning miles ahead or has it not been tested yet?
i should have at least scouted. i thought he might gas but didnt lol. postioning is key
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sick build, pride. I like it.
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This build isn't cheesy, unless you consider every T v T build to be cheesy. There is econ-cheese and there is aggression cheese. 2 sides of the same thing.
SC2's biggest flaw is how much coin-flip build order wins dominate this game.
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On June 23 2011 05:35 PrideTV wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 05:31 Lzuruha.FantaSy wrote:
lol.. koreans have been opening reaper builds for a while now somone even did it recently in the team league ;d cant really say its ur build i posted before he even did it and plus his variation is diffferent sir, please don't spam my thread with useless information.
? lol koreans have been doing it before you in every m/u trying out 2 rax reaper stop trying to steal credit thats like me saying i made the 4 gate .. lmao
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On June 23 2011 14:26 Lzuruha.FantaSy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 05:35 PrideTV wrote:On June 23 2011 05:31 Lzuruha.FantaSy wrote:
lol.. koreans have been opening reaper builds for a while now somone even did it recently in the team league ;d cant really say its ur build i posted before he even did it and plus his variation is diffferent sir, please don't spam my thread with useless information. ? lol koreans have been doing it before you in every m/u trying out 2 rax reaper stop trying to steal credit thats like me saying i made the 4 gate .. lmao
yea you're right. They invented everything. I should reedit this to.. Slayersboxer 3 reaper rush, ya?
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Yeah, Boxer makes EVERY terran build! He's that awesome, where else would the builds come from :D
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On June 22 2011 05:18 windsupernova wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 05:05 OhMyGawd wrote:
Oh Pride...You never cease to impress me with your cheese.
Blizzard Bless the Terran race How is this cheese? I think a similar build was done in a TvT in a GSL match, I don´t exactly remember which one but it was on dualsight it did surprisingly ton of damage
It was Nada vs IMMVP if im not mistaking
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Destiny says your nice but bad at this game. lulz. Manner bear ♥
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I don't think pride is bad, he just plays the game differently than most people want him to... and they don't like it.
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Ehm, how is this build new?
I had to check the date of this thread to make sure it didn't say 2010 :D
3 reapers 1 shot marins and scv, ORLY??
I play mostly 2v2 but some 1v1, high dim, and i have been using this for a year or more. Im sure all Terran players above platinum knows about this build, so whats the big fuzz about?
The reason this is not a very good build is that ONE rauder shuts u down and you are behind. If reapers could get speed fast it would work better, but they cant. Reaper needs a re-buff.
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On June 23 2011 21:22 sille wrote:
Ehm, how is this build new?
I had to check the date of this thread to make sure it didn't say 2010 :D
3 reapers 1 shot marins and scv, ORLY??
I play mostly 2v2 but some 1v1, high dim, and i have been using this for a year or more. Im sure all Terran players above platinum knows about this build, so whats the big fuzz about?
The reason this is not a very good build is that ONE rauder shuts u down and you are behind. If reapers could get speed fast it would work better, but they cant. Reaper needs a re-buff.
No, we do not know about this build. If it works for a grandmaster then it's strange you're stuck in low leagues using the same build.
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On June 23 2011 21:22 sille wrote:
Ehm, how is this build new?
I had to check the date of this thread to make sure it didn't say 2010 :D
3 reapers 1 shot marins and scv, ORLY??
I play mostly 2v2 but some 1v1, high dim, and i have been using this for a year or more. Im sure all Terran players above platinum knows about this build, so whats the big fuzz about?
The reason this is not a very good build is that ONE rauder shuts u down and you are behind. If reapers could get speed fast it would work better, but they cant. Reaper needs a re-buff.
Joke post?
And marauder openings are very rare in TvT.
The build seems really easy to scout and stop. It doesn't look like a reaper expand since you get a second rax so early, and since you don't get a marine the scouting SCV will be able to stay in your base forever.
Perhaps it would still work if they scout the two barracks since they might expect an early marauder push and bunker up... but if they just keep the SCV in the base until the first reaper pops you're out of luck.
Whether or not it's considered 'cheese' is irrelevant, but I'd say it's pretty close. It's easy to scout, and with proper response it can be dealt with easily as well, and then you're really far behind (150 gas is a lot).
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On June 23 2011 22:27 Genome852 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 21:22 sille wrote:
Ehm, how is this build new?
I had to check the date of this thread to make sure it didn't say 2010 :D
3 reapers 1 shot marins and scv, ORLY??
I play mostly 2v2 but some 1v1, high dim, and i have been using this for a year or more. Im sure all Terran players above platinum knows about this build, so whats the big fuzz about?
The reason this is not a very good build is that ONE rauder shuts u down and you are behind. If reapers could get speed fast it would work better, but they cant. Reaper needs a re-buff.
Joke post? And marauder opening are very rare in TvT.
They will be a standard response once the t scouts that you have 2 barracks with tlabs lol. And the only need 1 marauder to hold it off and the techlab can be used for a factory or a starport after building teh marauder.
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On June 23 2011 22:45 seefour wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 22:27 Genome852 wrote:On June 23 2011 21:22 sille wrote:
Ehm, how is this build new?
I had to check the date of this thread to make sure it didn't say 2010 :D
3 reapers 1 shot marins and scv, ORLY??
I play mostly 2v2 but some 1v1, high dim, and i have been using this for a year or more. Im sure all Terran players above platinum knows about this build, so whats the big fuzz about?
The reason this is not a very good build is that ONE rauder shuts u down and you are behind. If reapers could get speed fast it would work better, but they cant. Reaper needs a re-buff.
Joke post? And marauder opening are very rare in TvT. They will be a standard response once the t scouts that you have 2 barracks with tlabs lol. And the only need 1 marauder to hold it off and the techlab can be used for a factory or a starport after building teh marauder.
The reapers would still do a lot of damage if you don't get conc. shells. Better to just get 2 rax of your own (and marauders probably). If you hold it off you're so far ahead anyways.
Edit: this seems surprisingly effective against zerg...if Z hatch first, the reapers will be in his base slightly before speed finishes it seems (need more tests), and queens don't kill reapers fast enough to prevent damage. It forces a lot of lings or a spine at each mineral line, and if you can prevent getting surrounded, you can do heavy drone damage. Your FE timing is very close to 2rax FE timing since reaper construction is low minerals per minute.
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I love seeing new builds like this. I will definitely be trying this out on the ladder. It seems everyone now goes 1-1-1 or 1 rax FE, so until this catches on there's significant damage to be done.
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Nice build, early game on ladder is gonna be full or reapers now 
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You guys are acting like the reapers have to commit and die. If the opponent gets a marauder then you just pull the reapers back and use them for map control. As long as they are alive they can threaten your opponent and if he moves out you will see it ahead of time. If you keep the reapers alive he has to commit defenses at his main and natural which makes any push towards you automatically weaker. If he doesn't commit the defenses then you get free scv/building kills while he moves across the map.
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NADA vs IMMVP
Nada goes 2 rax reapers
Absolutely decimated his opponent.
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Great guide (: good to see TvT developing away from the typical marine/tank stalemate
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This looks awsome! really gotta try this out.
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On June 23 2011 21:22 sille wrote:
Ehm, how is this build new?
I had to check the date of this thread to make sure it didn't say 2010 :D
3 reapers 1 shot marins and scv, ORLY??
I play mostly 2v2 but some 1v1, high dim, and i have been using this for a year or more. Im sure all Terran players above platinum knows about this build, so whats the big fuzz about?
The reason this is not a very good build is that ONE rauder shuts u down and you are behind. If reapers could get speed fast it would work better, but they cant. Reaper needs a re-buff.
you're kidding right?
some 1v1 means hardly at all if any. Why are you here interrogating and saying this build is bad? I take it you must lose to a lot of 10 pool/reaper opener in 2s >..
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I've always been weak at terran openings and have been using this opening to great effect against my practice partners. It really punishes people trying to do greedy builds. Keep up the good work, Pride
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Very nice opening. Pride is definitely my favorite terran to watch. Keep it up!
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Thanks a lot, I really like this build. This is now my new opening for TvT, the information and damage you do is very good.
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Was messing around with this some more yesterday, and it worked quite well.
The cool thing about this build, is that it's basically a snowball effect. While it didn't win me the game outright, it definitely is one of the main factors.
OH! forgot to mention that I did the modified version, with one marine and 2 scv..
My opponent did the Destiny Cloud Fist build, and went for early hellion medivac. At the end of the battle, I think I killed 2 hellions, 4-5 marines, and about 4 SCVs. He was left with one marine, one hellion, and one medivac, while I had my natural 75% complete, 3 rax, and 2 marines out on the field. I then proceeded to take the gold, make 2 more bases, and win with mass Bcs :D
Love this build.
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Two rax openers fast stim or conc are like auto win vs this, luckily little to nobody uses these openers. I love reapers :D
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lol i won my second geforce amateur game with this build. a few notes that were probably already mentioned:
1) proxy your reaper barracks and build a normal one at home. it's important that your opponent see something in your main. build marines along with the reapers.
2) also destiny cloud fist as a transition. if you build the factory before you attack (requires both geysers) it puts your opponent further at ease.
3) try to save your reapers. they're invaluable when fending off the inevitable counterattack.
4) don't forget to fly your proxy rax home when finished!
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this build might be stronger if you care less about scouting your opponent (maybe a later scout for slightly more economy since reapers scout anyway), build a marine in your base to make him think you arent going reaper, then because you have slightly more economy once scouting is denied make 2 more raxes in your base and use the first rax to produce 3 quick techlabs then once all 3 raxes are done put them all on the techlabs and use 3 raxes to rush a higher amount of reapers and because you have 3 raxes that should mean 3 reapers reach your enemy base at maybe a slightly later time.
and use the reapers like mutalisks to scout / map control. and reapers in bunkers should be able to defend any type of attack right
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This definitely sounds like a worth while strategy. I think I'll probably try this out today. Feel your pain in the 30 minute "who can build the most mech" TvT games. Normally I attempt to go mass air, but this looks like a viable alternative.
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This is a nice variation that will punish tech greedy terrans, especially since hellions are vulnerable to reapers as well.
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I think this definitely qualifies as a form of cheese for sure.
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Not really ^^^^
You're doing slight worker cuts to punish those who don't make early units. I easily transition into CC -> Fact - > Starport and continue a macro game, just with better economy than my opponent.
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You're doing slight worker cuts to punish those who don't make early units. I easily transition into CC -> Fact - > Starport and continue a macro game, just with better economy than my opponent.
You're cutting workers early, delaying your tech, delaying your orbital to rush 3 reapers. If he knows whats coming he builds a marauder and you lose. A big part of this build is it remaining unscouted and trying to pass it off as a reaper exapnd.
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i don't agree with this build labeled as cheese.
you dont sacrifice that much eco, if you snipe more than 2-3 scv's then you are ahead. i played it today and yesterday a lot.
first it was just custom games vs diamond//low, mid masters. and in tvt i won EVERY game (about 5-6) in tvz i lost (this build isnt good for tvz :D) and surprisingly in tvp it did decent damage (followed up with marauders) vs zealot sentry it was win outright, and vs some stalkers it punished counterattacks : marauder + reaper with micro is nice combo early game especially to go up ramp.
today on ladder this build did quite a nice job i was proxy raxing all the time, and surprisingly no one knew whats comming, maybe when it becomes popular then it gets worse, but so far situation looks this : i played 6 (4-2) games vs high masters (i'm 1.5k, opp were 1.4-1.7) i lost vs a guy who made reactored rines and then swapped to make hellions. still i was able to make it to late game, but being slightly behind (managed to kill just 2 scvs for being a bit delayed in tech) another lose was vs some 1.7k master guy, but it was my poor execution, i proxied it in very bad position + messed b.o a bit. and my 3rd reaper was delayed for about 15 game time seconds, and 3 reapers arrived in his base while tank popped out, so i did no damage so i ended being behind and losing after time
but if i arrive 15 seconds earlier i would be able to kill 5-6 scvs then game could change.
rest of games were win. some of them spectacular . guy doing very greedy expansion, and while seeing 3 reaper in his base he just left (after losing spreaded marines)
funniest situation was when i faced a guy making reaper expand, and it ended in reaper wars :D but 1 reaper wont stand much chance vs 3 reapers :D
also it is good way to punish fast banshee builds. even with hellions. since on close air position people like to go banshee and thats how i win twice : being able to kill lots (7+) scvs. defend banshee counterattack with turrets + rines and later viking. and then with better eco make counterratack with rine//tank//viking.
oops i make too long post, but wanted to give some insight :D
tl;dr thx to op for sharing this build, i love it :D. imo its not cheese, however it can be strong countered in certain (rare) situations, but generally its gives more benefits so long as it remains unknown to other players. on the other hand if i faced someone doing that build (easy to spot by delayed oc) i would be able to easily hard counter it (maraduer) and get ahead .so use it while its not popular :D
btw 100 post:D
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On June 25 2011 09:53 wonderwall wrote:Show nested quote +You're doing slight worker cuts to punish those who don't make early units. I easily transition into CC -> Fact - > Starport and continue a macro game, just with better economy than my opponent. You're cutting workers early, delaying your tech, delaying your orbital to rush 3 reapers. If he knows whats coming he builds a marauder and you lose. A big part of this build is it remaining unscouted and trying to pass it off as a reaper exapnd.
if they get marauders your expo will be faster than theirs...
all you have to do is see the marauders and back off, and be active with ur reapers to contain him until you have a real army, and then its back to standard play...
i was one of the first people to jump to the same conclusion as you, but this build is no riskier than a blue flame drop or cloak banshee opening... imo
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with that being said, ive only used this build on close air position metalop + shattered temple, as i feel it is ridiculously strong there, guaranteed damage unless they blindly go marauders... this hits so early on those maps its silly
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On June 25 2011 11:35 spbelky wrote:
with that being said, ive only used this build on close air position metalop + shattered temple, as i feel it is ridiculously strong there, guaranteed damage unless they blindly go marauders... this hits so early on those maps its silly
air position shakuras is also a good one for this strat.
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Pride delivering the GM cheese per usual ^^
Plus your thread making skills are improving every time ! Good job.
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done this 3 times so far, works really nicely.
first time was funnily enough vs the same build, I responded by getting 2 marauders after the initial 3 reapers and concussive while avoiding the tower vision on xel'naga, ended up killing everything in his base and had 12 or so scvs survive.
second time was vs banshee opening on metalopalis, jumped up, killed the 4 rines that came out of the bunker (lost 1 reaper) and then killed most of his workers before the banshee came out, then expanded and made 4 starport banshee/viking.
third time was vs 3 rax allin, scouted the 2 proxy raxes with xel'naga vision on metalopolis, went into his main, sniped 3 marines and kited workers, he quit when he saw a finished bunker on my ramp.
nice build, I usually open "safe" 1/1/1, but I think I'll be going marauder first next time I do that.
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You should add another counter to this build, early gas into fast banshees. I've encountered this build around 5 times so far on the ladder and have held it off easily every time. If anything it hurt the other player more because they lost a lot of gas early on and you can punish the player with banshees due to their low marine count early on.
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On June 26 2011 00:12 Sovern wrote:
You should add another counter to this build, early gas into fast banshees. I've encountered this build around 5 times so far on the ladder and have held it off easily every time. If anything it hurt the other player more because they lost a lot of gas early on and you can punish the player with banshees due to their low marine count early on.
early gas = less marines = reapers > low count marines
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On June 22 2011 04:41 IronMonocle wrote:
I love your creative play style, thanks for sharing!
By creative play style you mean cheesy play style right?
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On June 26 2011 05:04 Geordie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 04:41 IronMonocle wrote:
I love your creative play style, thanks for sharing! By creative play style you mean cheesy play style right?
sounds like a rhetorical question,, but no I think he means creative play style.
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*something to note for.. If your harass was a success, don't stop building reapers and rallying to the opponent base.* essentialy saying "dont expand ,be terran" :D and i am sorry i could not help my-self. Otherwise nice write-up i think
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I always wondered if getting more than that one reaper might be viable considering how low-health Marines are.. it seems like everyone and their mom is going with the 1-reaper expand so most players would probably simply assume that that's what's happening and respond accordingly.
Not sure why there's so much anger in this thread; the build clearly works (as in brings in wins at a notable level). Sure, it has its weaknesses, but how is that different from literally any other build ever?
Always seems like every strategy thread nowadays is filled with people trying to out-theorycraft the OP.
"But the opponent could do this!" My opponent could rush 1base BCs too, what's your point?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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On June 26 2011 06:01 YosHGo wrote:
*something to note for.. If your harass was a success, don't stop building reapers and rallying to the opponent base.* essentialy saying "dont expand ,be terran" :D and i am sorry i could not help my-self. Otherwise nice write-up i think
Reapers out of two rax is as mineral-demanding as producing marines out of a naked barrack. It's not a problem
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I played against a 1750 terran Vorrentk who did this today and he did worst case scenario kind of damage to me. 8 scv/marine kills and i was able to only pick off 1 reaper and get the other 2 in the red before he was forced to run away.
I was able to punish him with my first banshee pretty well despite him finishing a turret just as i arrived because he had so few marines and did your build to a T with the follow up expand. I got my expand slightly later than him but had picked off many marines at his main, i sent my 2nd banshee to his expand but he had a turret there and i picked off a few more marines. His early advantage was surpassed by the banshee and I later won with a lot of tank/marine.
I noticed that you didn't mention that you have issues with banshees, but would like you to go into more depth on that why you think banshee builds aren't a counter to this.
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On June 26 2011 06:35 starcraft911 wrote:
I played against a 1750 terran Vorrentk who did this today and he did worst case scenario kind of damage to me. 8 scv/marine kills and i was able to only pick off 1 reaper and get the other 2 in the red before he was forced to run away.
I was able to punish him with my first banshee pretty well despite him finishing a turret just as i arrived because he had so few marines and did your build to a T with the follow up expand. I got my expand slightly later than him but had picked off many marines at his main, i sent my 2nd banshee to his expand but he had a turret there and i picked off a few more marines. His early advantage was surpassed by the banshee and I later won with a lot of tank/marine.
I noticed that you didn't mention that you have issues with banshees, but would like you to go into more depth on that why you think banshee builds aren't a counter to this.
one turret in the mid of the mineral line isn't enough. Usually by the time your banshee hits, i have turrets everywhere.
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On June 26 2011 07:00 PrideTV wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2011 06:35 starcraft911 wrote:
I played against a 1750 terran Vorrentk who did this today and he did worst case scenario kind of damage to me. 8 scv/marine kills and i was able to only pick off 1 reaper and get the other 2 in the red before he was forced to run away.
I was able to punish him with my first banshee pretty well despite him finishing a turret just as i arrived because he had so few marines and did your build to a T with the follow up expand. I got my expand slightly later than him but had picked off many marines at his main, i sent my 2nd banshee to his expand but he had a turret there and i picked off a few more marines. His early advantage was surpassed by the banshee and I later won with a lot of tank/marine.
I noticed that you didn't mention that you have issues with banshees, but would like you to go into more depth on that why you think banshee builds aren't a counter to this. one turret in the mid of the mineral line isn't enough. Usually by the time your banshee hits, i have turrets everywhere.
So you make 4 turrets to stop the first banshee? That seems like a lot of investment. What if i don't make banshees and you just dumped 400 minerals for nothing?
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On June 26 2011 07:11 starcraft911 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2011 07:00 PrideTV wrote:On June 26 2011 06:35 starcraft911 wrote:
I played against a 1750 terran Vorrentk who did this today and he did worst case scenario kind of damage to me. 8 scv/marine kills and i was able to only pick off 1 reaper and get the other 2 in the red before he was forced to run away.
I was able to punish him with my first banshee pretty well despite him finishing a turret just as i arrived because he had so few marines and did your build to a T with the follow up expand. I got my expand slightly later than him but had picked off many marines at his main, i sent my 2nd banshee to his expand but he had a turret there and i picked off a few more marines. His early advantage was surpassed by the banshee and I later won with a lot of tank/marine.
I noticed that you didn't mention that you have issues with banshees, but would like you to go into more depth on that why you think banshee builds aren't a counter to this. one turret in the mid of the mineral line isn't enough. Usually by the time your banshee hits, i have turrets everywhere. So you make 4 turrets to stop the first banshee? That seems like a lot of investment. What if i don't make banshees and you just dumped 400 minerals for nothing?
if you dont make banshee? you're suppose to when i see a tech lab on a starport. hahah
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I would think that if you see a new opening you would want to see if you can either a) alter your build slightly and account for the new build tooo or b) completely alter your build based on scouting information.
I would just alter my build and build around my CC and if I suspect 3 reapers put a bunker nearby your depos and mineral line. Then dance the marines back and forth till you can get a maruader tank or banshee out.
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On June 26 2011 12:14 terranghost wrote:
I would think that if you see a new opening you would want to see if you can either a) alter your build slightly and account for the new build tooo or b) completely alter your build based on scouting information.
I would just alter my build and build around my CC and if I suspect 3 reapers put a bunker nearby your depos and mineral line. Then dance the marines back and forth till you can get a maruader tank or banshee out.
i usually have about 10 secs in base if they went for a fast tank, which is more than enough time to deal dmg to the mineral line. Also, I have never encountered where my opponent puts a bunker near the mineral line because even with the bunker, you can still harass around by the time a tank comes out or even a banshee.
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I used this shit on sixjaxMajOr on top 200 koth and he flipped the fuck out. Congrats on at least giving me that. :>
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Yeah i actually think this is a legitimate build, thanks for sharing
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On June 27 2011 14:39 unSpeake wrote:
Yeah i actually think this is a legitimate build, thanks for sharing
Well yah look at the post above you
On June 27 2011 14:31 Pokebunny wrote:
I used this shit on sixjaxMajOr on top 200 koth and he flipped the fuck out. Congrats on at least giving me that. :>
I loved using reapers in the beta so much. I'm a protoss player now but this brings back such good memories.
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On June 23 2011 01:09 seefour wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 19:55 Cano wrote:On June 22 2011 19:25 seefour wrote:The thing is the banshee is at least half done when the reapers get there and even if you kill the tlab the banshee still gets out Rotfl, what? You don't even have starport finished at the time reapers come in. I did the math and the banshee is building before the reapers get there and you only need to stall for a few secs to get it out. This is gas first btw.
Excuse me mazters and all, but even down here in the cellar leagues (silver), we dont pursue a strategy if we spot the opponent doing stuff that will hardcounter it. I dont suppose you can choose to go gas first after spotting 2 rax techlab, but you sure as hell can skip the reaper thingy if you spot gas first. Duh!
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For all those people calling this build cheese, it's not. It's an aggressive opening designed to delay the opponent, scout his tech and army movements, create the potential of causing economic damage early, and allow a relatively fast expansion.
It also serves as well as a single barracks with reactor in fending off banshees, and provides a nice transition into a Polt-style marauder/marine/medivac army composition. Or you can always swap over the barracks with starports and factories once you're done using them.
It looks like you sacrifice 2-3 scvs early, but your reapers can
1) Force the opponent to react defensively if he scouts it, and
2) Cause some damage if the opponent does not expect it.
At the very least you'll be able to get that 2-3 scvs back and equalize your sacrifices.
Awesome build x2, will give it a try.
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but if you get a techlab on the rax as soon it is done, then you don't get a marine and they can scout the build easily....how do you deal with this
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How well will this work against a terran player who goes for fast siege or 1/1/1? (cant try this out for a while since my comp at home is broken)
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Your opponent saw the reaper yet continued to rush banshees.. You saw your opponent see your reaper and yet you hop the ledge that is the most obvious of all reaper entrances. I don't get tvt.. lol. Not surprised you consider this "creative."
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I beat SlayerS_dragon earlier today with this build.
It's hilarious. Thanks man!
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I love Reapers, will try it out defs
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The Grim Reaper has returned.
I have yet to win outright with this build, but I haven't encountered too many Terrans on ladder.
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On June 27 2011 17:41 yiodee wrote:
but if you get a techlab on the rax as soon it is done, then you don't get a marine and they can scout the build easily....how do you deal with this
I've had this happen trying the build out and I'll still go about the build as I would if my opponent didn't scout. Most terrans expect one reaper as a scout or to try to do a little damage but almost never expect three. Usually the delay in attack will have your opponent assuming you are just holding a watch tower or thinks that you know they know you have a reaper and you're just deciding not to use it as they would normally expect you to. Depends on the opponent really though since as this build gains more popularity some might know and expect it in which case all I can say is, like any other risky opening BO, hope you don't get scouted during crucial moments.
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On June 27 2011 22:54 Diabolegal wrote:
The Grim Reaper has returned.
I have yet to win outright with this build, but I haven't encountered too many Terrans on ladder.
This isn't really designed to make you win outright. It's just designed to do good amounts of damage to your opponent to put you way ahead, causing a snowball effect.
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On June 23 2011 02:06 BONE wrote:
I use a very similar build in 2v2 games and it works very well... I'll be interested to watch your replay and try it in 1v1
I think I played you 1v1 play and you thought I was doing this, got concussive shells to hard counter, but I was actually just doing reaper into siege expand and your bio crumbled to my bunker + siege.
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On June 27 2011 17:41 yiodee wrote:
but if you get a techlab on the rax as soon it is done, then you don't get a marine and they can scout the build easily....how do you deal with this
Lately I been proxying my 2nd rax. Another time you can do is as soon as that scv starts scouting your base, have a scv follow it until it leaves your base.
On June 27 2011 20:48 frodoguy wrote:
How well will this work against a terran player who goes for fast siege or 1/1/1? (cant try this out for a while since my comp at home is broken)
You have about 5-10 secs before the first tank pops out.
On June 27 2011 22:29 iaguz wrote:
I beat SlayerS_dragon earlier today with this build.
It's hilarious. Thanks man!
I thought he plays protoss?
On June 27 2011 22:25 UberOverlord wrote:
Your opponent saw the reaper yet continued to rush banshees.. You saw your opponent see your reaper and yet you hop the ledge that is the most obvious of all reaper entrances. I don't get tvt.. lol. Not surprised you consider this "creative."
the beauty of tvt, the act of surprise.
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you mustve boinked spbelkys mom or something, he really likes you.
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On June 27 2011 23:27 LovE-z33k wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 22:54 Diabolegal wrote:
The Grim Reaper has returned.
I have yet to win outright with this build, but I haven't encountered too many Terrans on ladder. This isn't really designed to make you win outright. It's just designed to do good amounts of damage to your opponent to put you way ahead, causing a snowball effect.
In the accompanying video, Pride wins outright.
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Works very well in low level gold. I used a partly made supply depot to deny early scouting, and continued as normal although it threw out some other timings and felt less smooth. It totally caught the other guy by surprise and I took out 10 scvs, and held that econ advantage for the whole game which turned into a viking tank snooze fest.
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i've just been destroyed by this build on the ladder. i like it, i was sad of the lack of reaper use. Now i'm happy. i'll use it. i dislike the TvT tank Viking games
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On June 28 2011 09:46 FlawlessQQ wrote:
i've just been destroyed by this build on the ladder. i like it, i was sad of the lack of reaper use. Now i'm happy. i'll use it. i dislike the TvT tank Viking games
hehhe, its still a terrible unit imo.
On June 28 2011 08:51 antz0r wrote:
Works very well in low level gold. I used a partly made supply depot to deny early scouting, and continued as normal although it threw out some other timings and felt less smooth. It totally caught the other guy by surprise and I took out 10 scvs, and held that econ advantage for the whole game which turned into a viking tank snooze fest.
If you're able to take about 7 scvs, the game is practically over as long as you don't make major mistakes.
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looks and sounds like an interesting opener....
am going to try it out now!
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On June 28 2011 13:12 Imalengrat wrote:
looks and sounds like an interesting opener....
am going to try it out now!
just remember to proxy the 2 rax. Lately a lot of players have been just searching my base till my reaper pops out.
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Every Terran I've played lately has gone mass bio, not 1-1-1, so they either have a Marauder or a ton of Marines by the time I get there (just after 5:00). My Reapers have nothing to do but hold watchtowers at that point, and SCV kills are sparse.
How many SCVs do my 3 Reapers have to kill for me to be ahead considering the cost of the Reapers, the later Orbital upgrade, and the brief pauses in SCV construction?
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On June 29 2011 05:52 Diabolegal wrote:
Every Terran I've played lately has gone mass bio, not 1-1-1, so they either have a Marauder or a ton of Marines by the time I get there (just after 5:00). My Reapers have nothing to do but hold watchtowers at that point, and SCV kills are sparse.
How many SCVs do my 3 Reapers have to kill for me to be ahead considering the cost of the Reapers, the later Orbital upgrade, and the brief pauses in SCV construction?
You're only cutting effectively 1 scv, and are behind a negligible amount of time on your mule. I would say you need to kill just 1 scv to be effective. If anything it keeps your opponent in his base, you pick off a few marines, and you have early map control. One might even argue that map control is reason enough to cut an scv.
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Oooh.. nice, going to try this sometime now
Ps. also like how the guide is short and concise!
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It's a funky and surprising build, I'll give you that.
I feel that if I play someone that has seen this build before, he is capable of holding it easily, and you have a long long time to scout it before the first reaper is out. On most ladder maps (excluding TDA and possibly typhon?), an SCV will reach your main. This gives more then enough time for your opponent to prepare perfectly and you end up behind. Your opponent will be either up in tech in case of 1-1-1, or up in economy in case of a quick FE. You're then left with 3 fairly useless reaper, who act as your threat of counterattack until there's 2 tanks.
It's got very high 'shock' value, and might be slightly better if you proxy a 1 rax, to hope your opponent prepares for a 1 rax reaper (rines on cliffs), but when trying that myself recently I'm hitting opponents that prepare for this build even if they only scout 1 lab.
I think it will die out in a couple of weeks on the ladder, only to then return as the occasional cheese to see if people still remember how to hold it.
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On June 29 2011 08:59 Derez wrote:
It's a funky and surprising build, I'll give you that.
I feel that if I play someone that has seen this build before, he is capable of holding it easily, and you have a long long time to scout it before the first reaper is out. On most ladder maps (excluding TDA and possibly typhon?), an SCV will reach your main. This gives more then enough time for your opponent to prepare perfectly and you end up behind. Your opponent will be either up in tech in case of 1-1-1, or up in economy in case of a quick FE. You're then left with 3 fairly useless reaper, who act as your threat of counterattack until there's 2 tanks.
It's got very high 'shock' value, and might be slightly better if you proxy a 1 rax, to hope your opponent prepares for a 1 rax reaper (rines on cliffs), but when trying that myself recently I'm hitting opponents that prepare for this build even if they only scout 1 lab.
I think it will die out in a couple of weeks on the ladder, only to then return as the occasional cheese to see if people still remember how to hold it.
most bio builds stops this, but like i said. you only need to take off a few scvs and you'll come out ahead.
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I really like this build, thank you for sharing it!
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nice, i will try it too :D
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I played you on ladder earlier, this is the build I was talking about =] ^^^
This opener is really good, almost metagame breaking like iEchoic's 2fact2port was. I think they pretty much have to be doing some sort of tank opening to be able to deal with the reapers. Or marauder openings, but like, no one ever does that in TvT
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On July 01 2011 16:49 ChuckJagoda wrote:
I played you on ladder earlier, this is the build I was talking about =] ^^^
This opener is really good, almost metagame breaking like iEchoic's 2fact2port was. I think they pretty much have to be doing some sort of tank opening to be able to deal with the reapers. Or marauder openings, but like, no one ever does that in TvT
heheh, thats true. Its rare to see marauder opener tvt. btw.. i'm streaming currently and i do this build a lot while i'm streaming so stay tuned guys =]
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In diamond I have seen several people try this but they must butcher the timings lol, I usually go reaper expand into factory so the 3 reapers should hard counter it. I might have to try it myself soon, Im sure I can execute it better haha ;p
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On July 03 2011 14:01 Nexic wrote:
In diamond I have seen several people try this but they must butcher the timings lol, I usually go reaper expand into factory so the 3 reapers should hard counter it. I might have to try it myself soon, Im sure I can execute it better haha ;p
Oo.. your reaper expand build stops this build?
can you post replays?
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On July 03 2011 20:13 PrideTV wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2011 14:01 Nexic wrote:
In diamond I have seen several people try this but they must butcher the timings lol, I usually go reaper expand into factory so the 3 reapers should hard counter it. I might have to try it myself soon, Im sure I can execute it better haha ;p Oo.. your reaper expand build stops this build? can you post replays?
I think he was trying to say that his reaper expo gets hard countered by this 3 reaper opening.
In all the TvT's I've played so far with this build, I've never lost. Big props for creating this. Even when early marauders and early tanks come out, the reapers are so fast that I can safely swing around the base picking SCVs off. Micro is key ^^
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somebody tried this build on eu ladder vs. me....i raped it hard with 1-1-1 banshee expand :D
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On July 04 2011 03:14 gwaihir wrote:
somebody tried this build on eu ladder vs. me....i raped it hard with 1-1-1 banshee expand :D
Could you plz upload replay so we can see what he did wrong / you did right?
ty!
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Has anyone thought about adapting it for team play? It seems like a great 2v2 harass opener...
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When I encounter this, normally I counter attack with a blue flame hellion drop or cloaked banshee, either of which will kill more workers than 3 Reapers will.
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Didnt thorzain do this to someone a while ago? I think it was thorzain at least. I remember the game was on shattered temple.
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On July 04 2011 03:14 gwaihir wrote:
somebody tried this build on eu ladder vs. me....i raped it hard with 1-1-1 banshee expand :D
... that's like the one build that is completely vulnerable to this kind of play, especially on maps like caverns, by the time your banshee comes out you would have no scvs left.
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I've been preaching for some time now that reapers are good at almost any situation in tvt not just the opening. Apparently the pros seem to catch up now.
Joking aside this opening is very map dependant. You will get the best results on Temple and Meta close air.
It helps scouting this position first (only in tvt of course).
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Yes, it's totally map dependant, someone tried to 3 reaper rush me on shakuras and it failed hard, because there is really two way to enter the base. 4 marines were enough to take down the reapers.
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I love this build, You really make me want to go terran :D
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i have been seeing this so much lol
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Used this opener a few times last night in random 4v4 and worked a treat.
The early reapers did some good damage to the mineral line of one player, which then also causes him to play defensively. Generally in 4v4 you don't push out unless everyone is coming, so this may help delay pushes while the attacked player rebuild their econ and sits in defense mode for a bit.
It also caused the other players to move some units to their minerals as wait for potential reapers. Leaving the early expo follow up pretty safe to do. Granted this was only a sample size of 2, but it was fun and I'll keep doing it next time I hit up some 4v4.
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Althoug I haven't watch the replays nor I'm a fan of rushes I think this bo is really interesting, gonna give it a try, thx for posting!
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Great build! I tend to favor the TvT opening that 4k.Warden uses but this is a great use of early mobility to get the eco lead.
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Woah I have come up against this 4x in a row tonight and luckily knew to leave my troops in the mineral line. Gas first banshee seems to really hurt this build because if you fend off the reapers, then suddenly your banshee is able to pick off marines, scvs and even tanks.
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Great build thanks so much - I am looking forward to trying this out soon.
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On July 12 2011 19:52 antz0r wrote:
Woah I have come up against this 4x in a row tonight and luckily knew to leave my troops in the mineral line. Gas first banshee seems to really hurt this build because if you fend off the reapers, then suddenly your banshee is able to pick off marines, scvs and even tanks.
You should check out the youtube video in the OP - when the reapers hit his oppenent's base he see the tach lab starport and immediately drops an engi bay.
By the time the banshee chases the reapers away and heads to his base he is greeted by missile turrets and starports on the way ready to produce vikings.
I agree that if you don't react in time to scouting the incoming banshee, it's gonna hurt but you can prepare for it if you react fast enough.
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I once was completely caught off guard when a Terran player used this build against me, a Protoss. I think you should make a TvP variant of this build. Very creative, by the way.
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I've held this build off all of the 3 times it was used against me.
1 Gas 1/1/1 gets you enough to make marines hellions banshees and a relatively early expo for a good transition into marine tank or mech.
All you gotta do is keep your marines at your mineral line.
If the reapers run away injured chase them down with your hellion. Sure in a fair fight reapers will win but the hellions can just run away.
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On July 14 2011 08:15 edc wrote:
I once was completely caught off guard when a Terran player used this build against me, a Protoss. I think you should make a TvP variant of this build. Very creative, by the way.
Did you fend it off? If so, how?
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Wouldn't a Stalker in the mineral line do it? Just the same as a Marauder in the mineral line hurts this build in TvT.
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Just used this on ladder a couple of times. It's also, as some have stated, very effective against Zerg. Provided you don't let your Macro slip too much while Micro-ing the Reapers, the economic lead you'll get is outstanding, not to mention the loads of scouting information you receive. This allowed me to execute timing pushes with Marines and Marauders that won games.
Thank you very much for sharing this build.
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Hi Mcrat-
TL:DR: Fending this off and counter-attacking at the right time will put you miles ahead.
I have seen the replay, and have executed the build before to some good success and also lost to it. The main point is that gas first banshee can still do a lot of damage irregardless of the turrets that are up because you use the banshee to bait unupgraded marines and take them all out if possible. This then makes a marine tank push that much stronger if you hit shortly afterwards. You're basically free to do a fair bit of damage with an uncloaked banshee before the viking pops out.
In the four games that I played and won vs the 3 reaper rush, I had spotted the early techlab on the rax so I placed my marines in the mineral line right away. Most likely due to the other opponent's bad reaper control, I nail their reapers without many losses and the banshee heads straight to their base without having to stay and clean up the reapers.
It doesn't matter if the other player has a couple of turrets around the place, the banshee is mostly there to pick off anything possible, from marines, to scvs to supply depots. It might just be us low level golds, but when you are annoying with a banshee the other opponent overreacts and builds 4 turrets in their base, or per base and suddenly they've sunk 200-400 minerals on turrets and you are ahead by that much in army/army making structures.
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On July 14 2011 16:25 antz0r wrote:
Hi Mcrat-
TL:DR: Fending this off and counter-attacking at the right time will put you miles ahead.
I have seen the replay, and have executed the build before to some good success and also lost to it. The main point is that gas first banshee can still do a lot of damage irregardless of the turrets that are up because you use the banshee to bait unupgraded marines and take them all out if possible. This then makes a marine tank push that much stronger if you hit shortly afterwards. You're basically free to do a fair bit of damage with an uncloaked banshee before the viking pops out.
In the four games that I played and won vs the 3 reaper rush, I had spotted the early techlab on the rax so I placed my marines in the mineral line right away. Most likely due to the other opponent's bad reaper control, I nail their reapers without many losses and the banshee heads straight to their base without having to stay and clean up the reapers.
It doesn't matter if the other player has a couple of turrets around the place, the banshee is mostly there to pick off anything possible, from marines, to scvs to supply depots. It might just be us low level golds, but when you are annoying with a banshee the other opponent overreacts and builds 4 turrets in their base, or per base and suddenly they've sunk 200-400 minerals on turrets and you are ahead by that much in army/army making structures.
The idea is allow to your opponent to spread their marines. Usually with gas first build my success rate is higher due to the lower count of marines.
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Sorry for bumping this, but there is something I have noticed.
After running this opening several times as well as watching your replays, I have noticed most people spread marines on the cliff after they know you are going reapers. Thus, when your reapers approach the cliff, marines get free shots and are sometimes even able to kill a reaper before you get a chance to retaliate (and losing a reaper really weakens the opening since it's no longer 1shot). The solution to this I believe is to scan the higher ground before moving up. This allows you to see the units waiting for you, and if they are marines/scvs, you can attack them from the low ground before they even get to retaliate (reaper range>marine range). Yes, it is an early scan (after 1st mule), but it gives your reapers much more survivability and ability to harass. Yes, it won't help much against marauder openings. But, it will prevent you losing your reapers to marines just because of the high ground.
Later on, you can also float a rax to the cliff for vision
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this worked so freakin well for 2 games
since that, my last 6 tvts were against 3 raxx conc first, or 6 raxx allin, i go nuts as if they would know "hey this guy is doin 3 reaper rush" .....
anway, nice strat, i just don´t think it can beat conc first 3 raxx or (4 into) 6 raxxallin
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Nice strat dude, thanks for post it.
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I haven't lost a single TvT literally after I started to open with this build. I go 3 reapers, expand, then bio (i really hate tanks because I have no positioning), Works all the way up to masters, as soon as you kill the 3~ marines you have free reign over his base and often kill like 10 workers. Fantastic opening and gives you a huge eco advantage with the expo and worker killing
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Well, I know that this is an old "thread", but after a few weeks (months?), I've reached the conclusion that, at my plat-diamond level, this is the only alternative to the "I rush to tank-marine composition". As such, this is a worthy tread!
So, what about the refinements?
- If you do the build as indicated, then there's no way you can hide what you're doing to your opponent (especially the second barracks at 14)
- If you wall (bad in TvT), you can't do it with your depot + 2 barracks, because your opponent will see even more when he'll poke.
- So usually, I've adapted a bit the build : hide the second barracks you do at 14. The scouting worker shouldn't see anything strange (OC is still later), then wall(bad, I know) with a second depot. Go contest the Xel'naga tower with your marine 15 seconds before your 3rd reaper pop.
On September 05 2011 12:08 101toss wrote:Sorry for bumping this, but there is something I have noticed. After running this opening several times as well as watching your replays, I have noticed most people spread marines on the cliff after they know you are going reapers. Thus, when your reapers approach the cliff, marines get free shots and are sometimes even able to kill a reaper before you get a chance to retaliate (and losing a reaper really weakens the opening since it's no longer 1shot). The solution to this I believe is to scan the higher ground before moving up. This allows you to see the units waiting for you, and if they are marines/scvs, you can attack them from the low ground before they even get to retaliate (reaper range>marine range). Yes, it is an early scan (after 1st mule), but it gives your reapers much more survivability and ability to harass. Yes, it won't help much against marauder openings. But, it will prevent you losing your reapers to marines just because of the high ground. Later on, you can also float a rax to the cliff for vision
- The problem is that a wasted scan is veeery bad... Do a bit of mind game! Show your reapers (when you have only one), then scan the high ground when your 3 reapers are closing. If it works (marines waiting), you have an overwhelming advantage.
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I refined the build order just a little bit since then, when I get the chance I'll edit.
Wall off at 14 supply
15 reaper
15 oc
I sometimes rush at 5 reapers instead of 3.
To be frank, not a standard solid build, but fun to execute and making players qq is always a plus.
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On November 16 2011 01:32 PrideTV wrote:
I refined the build order just a little bit since then, when I get the chance I'll edit.
Wall off at 14 supply
15 reaper
15 oc
I sometimes rush at 5 reapers instead of 3.
To be frank, not a standard solid build, but fun to execute and making players qq is always a plus.
Nice!
I'd be really interested in what you saw was bad, how you fixed it, and why it's not a solid build! The only thing I don't like is the higher I get (this means diamond ><) the less damage I usually do against good players. But I get map control and a relatively fast expand, so I'm happy!
On the other hand, this build works real fine in TvP, stalkers are a nuisance, but sentries are worthy targets that die in exactly 2 volleys of 3 shots =) It's always good to snipe the first sentries as they're the ones with the most energy in the end.
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What Pride probably means by "its not a solid build", is that it is somewhat cheesy. You can get into scvs and make the other player QQ, or you can get booted by marines on a cliff and be pretty far behind in tech, econ, and army mass. Banshee openers are also more difficult to defend since you are building reapers (although they will also have less marines to defend your attack). Also contributing to the "cheese" ness of this, is the luck involved. You have a few places to jump up into each base. Maybe he has 3-5 rines there, maybe he is somewhere else. Luck sometimes determines if you raid is a success or not.
In any case, I dont do the build myself, but my experience vs it, is that if they kill anything less than 5 scvs its a pretty easy win for me. I get seige first, drops first, and my econ is better. I will also say that I have definately lost to this before as well, when my marines were not in good positions. I would probably look to this build as more of a BOx tournament play, expecially if you know an opponent has a propensity to go banshee or some other marine light opener.
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