EPT[G] Warden’s TvP 1:1:1 into "Terran Death Ball" - Page 13
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OSM.OneManArmy
United States509 Posts
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mGMUSE
Singapore112 Posts
On June 22 2011 12:37 ozeake wrote: I assume if you wrote a BW protoss guide you would also refer to reavers as RIBO RIBO RIBO every time you mention them, then? It doesn't fit well into a serious business 8-page (on my resolution and settings anyway) strategy guide. Cool passive aggressive condension bro, your rating is D-. someone needs to ban this troll. I think the good part about this guide is the explanation of protoss openings and the genius use of a hellion scout.I'm not for the deathball though: I think having so many units that require micro to pull off makes it incredible hard to engage properly in a battle. Being a GM myself I just tried this out. I had an econ advantage which if i had gone for the conventional MMM I would've rolled the toss over. However he attacked me with chargelots HTs immortals while i was halfway sieged and I got rolled. I had hellions, tanks, marines, ghosts, medivacs, vikings, and a raven. it was a torture moving that across the map - hellions too fast to fit into any unit group, ghosts need a separate unit hotkey by themselves, marines can't share with any of those, medivacs and vikings just needs to follow a unit i guess, and raven needs yet another separate hotkey. I was so messed up with all the new unit control groups that i couldn't control my army at all. | ||
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Bonesy
United States101 Posts
That being said, Warden posted some convincing replays so I guess the high micro guys can pull it off. | ||
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Koujinkamu
Denmark6 Posts
Siege tanks and vikings are siege units, and need to be covered Marines, marauders, hellions absorb the damage (making medivacs very good to have) I find that hellions have good synergy with the mobile bio army, spearheading the attack while you take a good position. They clean up chargelots that bio often has difficulty dealing with, and it allows the bio to stay in front, rather than kiting the gateway portion of the toss army. Warden notes that siege tanks and vikings are supposed to focusfire colossi. Basically you drag the mobile bio army in between the toss death ball and your tanks, and a-move it towards his army, while shift-clicking the colossi with your siege units. Even though I'm "only" rank 16 diamond, my TvP improved drastically with this strategy. It's important to note, though, that the 170 food (blame Day9 for teaching me that term) is crucial, and anything later will allow protoss to outmacro you. I usually push when protoss is around 150-160 food. I reach my desired food count and composition around the 15 minute mark. The most difficult thing about this build is keeping up with supply and not let him kill you first, which I much prefer over the bio army that rarely stands up to the protoss endgame. | ||
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cskalias.pbe
United States293 Posts
I'm having difficulty in the stage after the first 2 banshees when protoss is opening "safe" (2 gate or 3 gate robo into expo). If the toss splits his stalkers to both of his mineral lines, the banshee harass is kind of shut down. Then I get getting punished by stalkers and 3 or 4 immortal before my 3 rax with tech labs can kick in. Would you agree this is the weakest timing of this build? It seems like the 2 responses could be to lean marine/banshee and dont' swap add ons (faster), or lean marauder/medivac while swapping addons (better for late game?). Do you have a particular preference for this timing? | ||
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boon2537
United States905 Posts
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RumZ
United States956 Posts
Holy jesus <33333333333 | ||
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Intricate1
169 Posts
On June 26 2011 11:55 cskalias.pbe wrote: This post is great, and has helped me a lot in my TvP. I'm almost shocked by how few views/replies this guide has and it is definitely the best scouting guide for TvP on TL. I'm having difficulty in the stage after the first 2 banshees when protoss is opening "safe" (2 gate or 3 gate robo into expo). If the toss splits his stalkers to both of his mineral lines, the banshee harass is kind of shut down. Then I get getting punished by stalkers and 3 or 4 immortal before my 3 rax with tech labs can kick in. Would you agree this is the weakest timing of this build? It seems like the 2 responses could be to lean marine/banshee and dont' swap add ons (faster), or lean marauder/medivac while swapping addons (better for late game?). Do you have a particular preference for this timing? This. Along with QXC's "12 Weeks" Episode, easily one of the best Terran Resources around | ||
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WiNdeL973
France4 Posts
On June 21 2011 07:08 chrusher97 wrote: yo by the time your hellion scouts his 1 gate FE wouldnt you have already started your starport - and thus making it impossible to do the thor allin to counter it? Or can you only do thor allin when you see the FE with your scouting scv. Or maybe thor allin is possible with a couple starport units? I played some games using this build and when i scout the 1 gate expend with my hellion, starport is half built.. Too late to make an armory and thor allin.. | ||
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Koujinkamu
Denmark6 Posts
On June 26 2011 18:01 WiNdeL973 wrote: Great guide but the OP didnt answered this question : I played some games using this build and when i scout the 1 gate expend with my hellion, starport is half built.. Too late to make an armory and thor allin.. There's nothing wrong with cancelling your starport. It frees up gas to immideately throw down the armory, and it might feel wasteful and late, but once you start pumping thors, the protoss army seems incredibly tiny so early in the game. I always manage to take down the nexus. If he doesn't leave the game though, don't push him. Go home and expand into the death ball. Your 2-4 thors will keep you alive at home if he chooses to go all-in. | ||
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OSM.OneManArmy
United States509 Posts
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LwReisen
Australia94 Posts
I'll be showing this guide to all my friends | ||
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assaxito
Spain2 Posts
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WardenSC
Canada210 Posts
On June 23 2011 04:39 Synystyr wrote: Yikes....just saw that game of you vs Huk on his stream. The early game was really solid...you got a good scout and got the proper response, but Huk just straight up outmicroed his blink stalkers against everything xD. What do you think you could've done differently there? Basically against his blink stalker opening (not DT opening), I should've expanded, continued to make tanks, MMM army and go for a stim timing push instead of trying to go one base all in. ( I was really eager to just finish him there and that was my mistake). With some marauders with concussive, it would've nullfied his blink stalker micro greatly. Lesson well learned, On June 23 2011 04:49 Catch]22 wrote: Speaking of HuK, what do you do against his wierd "20food 1gate FE", tried to thor this, but he just had soooo many units way more than regular due to the cutting. Personally I've never encountered this particular build so I wouldn't be able to comment on it. However, I can tell you that with sufficient micro (surrounding scvs on thor so zealots dont have the surface area to attack and also microing the marines), I don't think I've lost using thor all in vs 1 gate into expansion. With that being said, I wouldn't use thor all in on big maps such as tal darim altar due to the long rush distance. LDPDC's question has been answered very well by fellow TL member, gavinashun so I won't go into it. Btw its great to see members contributing to each other On June 23 2011 13:13 Wilco wrote: Why are the videos not working for me? I even tried to go to sc2replays and download them and put them in my replay folder...but, they don't show up. When I try to click on the link in the post it pulls up SC2 but my screen stays black. Any ideas? Wilco, it must be a techincal issue for you with regards to the replays - I would ask them in tech support section. I am sorry but can't help you with that On June 24 2011 11:45 OSM.OneManArmy wrote: What would a 2-Gate expo into a 3gate robo off of one base be? (which possibility should i consider it to be as) You should consider this as "safe protoss builds" and expand with caution into making the terran death ball army - don't salvage the bunker at the ramp too quickly. When the 2 bunkers in natural are complete, move your army down the ramp, secure your expansion and salvage the bunker at top of the ramp. On June 25 2011 02:23 mGMUSE wrote: I had hellions, tanks, marines, ghosts, medivacs, vikings, and a raven. it was a torture moving that across the map - hellions too fast to fit into any unit group, ghosts need a separate unit hotkey by themselves, marines can't share with any of those, medivacs and vikings just needs to follow a unit i guess, and raven needs yet another separate hotkey. I was so messed up with all the new unit control groups that i couldn't control my army at all. The downfall of this build may be that this is a micro intensive build purely because of all the mix of units in the army composition - but at the same time, I believe this is also the strong point of the build. With sufficient practice games, you should be able to get used to all the casting/army control needed On June 25 2011 02:40 Bonesy wrote: I'm low masters and I have had no luck making this work for the reasons Muse just listed. I can't control all the stuff basically. The proper micro required seems crazy. I don't even know what order to do things. Stim first, then emp , then pdd? All the while trying to kite your barracks units and control vikings? Furthermore these battles can be decisive in a few seconds so mis-micro and game over. That's pretty much what 200 vs 200 food battles will boil down to; One single micro mistake can mean the difference between victory and defeat I would pdd first, stim then emp, but that's just my preference. You can go in order as you deem confortable On June 25 2011 03:03 Incei wrote: Warden notes that siege tanks and vikings are supposed to focusfire colossi. Basically you drag the mobile bio army in between the toss death ball and your tanks, and a-move it towards his army, while shift-clicking the colossi with your siege units. Incei, you've analyzed my strategy perfectly except this one I wouldn't a-move into his army with infantry and hellions but kite the protoss army just enough to give time for vikings/tanks to destroy most of the colossus. Then a-move to finish the rest of protoss army. On June 26 2011 11:55 cskalias.pbe wrote: This post is great, and has helped me a lot in my TvP. I'm almost shocked by how few views/replies this guide has and it is definitely the best scouting guide for TvP on TL. I'm having difficulty in the stage after the first 2 banshees when protoss is opening "safe" (2 gate or 3 gate robo into expo). If the toss splits his stalkers to both of his mineral lines, the banshee harass is kind of shut down. Then I get getting punished by stalkers and 3 or 4 immortal before my 3 rax with tech labs can kick in. Would you agree this is the weakest timing of this build? It seems like the 2 responses could be to lean marine/banshee and dont' swap add ons (faster), or lean marauder/medivac while swapping addons (better for late game?). Do you have a particular preference for this timing? A good protoss player would split the stalker army and minimize the damage by the two banshees. However you can still do other type of harass such as destroying the pylons placed in the edge of his main base etc while scouting what his main army composition looks like. With regards to stalkers/immortal push, I believe I have a replay between Shokan where he goes for a similar timing push when I did not have enough marauders. Please check out that replay to see how I defended. With pdd and scvs reparing the two bunkers, and also the tanks focus firing on the stalkers, you should be able to fend off this timing push. | ||
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WardenSC
Canada210 Posts
On June 26 2011 18:01 WiNdeL973 wrote: Great guide but the OP didnt answered this question : I played some games using this build and when i scout the 1 gate expend with my hellion, starport is half built.. Too late to make an armory and thor allin.. I have attached a replay vs Perfect where he went 1 gate into expand and I fell into same situation where I had a starport built. In this case, cut all unit production and expand asap into making a terran death ball army for a timing push. You should not be too behind provided that your banshees get 5-6 probe kills Please look at replay #17 for reference.On June 27 2011 03:12 OSM.OneManArmy wrote: So using this build i spotted 2 gates and a twilight. I quickly assume DT's (which i was correct) And get a turret and a raven out. However, instead of sticking with the dt's, he morphs them into archons and gets chargelots.... What composition of your death-ball do you recommend for archon chargelot? He should not have charge upgraded in time if you go for an all in with scvs as soon as raven pops out; It should be a build order win for you. Please take a look at my replays vs DT openings If you encounter this composition mid game, marauders and blue flame hellions should take care of them pretty easily On June 27 2011 08:04 assaxito wrote: what about scan his base @ possibility #6? This is a perfectly viable option; However, personally I don't like to waste scans and would rather opt for a safe opening with better economy by using energy on a mule. This is because I feel that scanning is pretty much gambling at best (hit and miss); Good protoss players will hide their tech. | ||
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Shiver
United States41 Posts
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WardenSC
Canada210 Posts
On June 27 2011 11:06 Shiver wrote: Hey warden I have a question I have been doing a similar build style to this and I have problems when the opponent opens pheonix expand into colo pheonix plus bio. What should I do? Do you do a all in early on or if you try for the death ball do you get a lot of vikings or none? Please take time to read the whole guide before asking questions... You can go for a timing all in with 2 thors, scvs and marines - as specified in possibility #4. On June 27 2011 13:43 CPTHammer.464 wrote: Warden, do you plan on streaming and showing us these build as they happen? Hearing you talk through your thought process would be HUGE! To answer the question below, I stream daily from Mon-Fri 10am-4pm PST and play ladder/custom games with commentary. I have to say that I am not having as much success using this build as I used to eversince I posted this guide. It seems that whenever my opponents see me in ladder, they just cut corners and blind counter my build without scouting for what I am actually doing. I can only assume that they have read my guide and counter my counter builds . With that being said, you guys should have good amount of success using this build since the opponents you will face won't know what you will be doing | ||
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CPTHammer.464
United States37 Posts
EDIT: Stream is here - http://www.justin.tv/wardensc2 | ||
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TORTOISE
United States515 Posts
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Mista_Masta
Netherlands557 Posts
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