[G] Warden’s TvP 1:1:1 into "Terran Death Ball" - Page 15

In a near 200/200 battle, the “Terran Death Ball” crumples his HT/colossus protoss army.

On July 01 2011 00:55 naventus wrote:
That's why I said you are clueless. You don't actually understand the game at a level where you can see the flaws in your reasoning.

Come back when you understand that dropping rax at 9-10m you will be behind in every area to the P. When will you complete the transition? P will be ready to fight at 13-14m, stim will be done in time, but that's only 6-8 production cycles of units. 20 bio units? So you can't move out, P takes a 3rd and denies you your 3rd. Then you get to play like warden and sit 2 base to 200 and hope for P to fuck up.

Notice how he refuses to post any losses, or true macro games?

The other half of your army is tied up into subpar trash like tanks and banshee. Upgraded gate is directly superior to those units. P will have: larger gate count, upgrades complete, critical tech complete. Nothing prevents you from throwing down barracks, but that is that inferior decision against a competent player.

On July 01 2011 02:16 naventus wrote:
Can you read my posts more carefully if you are going to spout kneejerk shit? Instead of trying to comprehend my points, you just exaggerate it into strawmen.

I have no problem with this being an allin, it absolutely takes advantage of timing, and it's definitely a nice strat to have in the toolbox. I don't think it's a failure, I think it's an excellent analysis of how to make 111 work. In fact, I've made this position clear in earlier posts.

But it is a lie that this is a scalable build. It's a lie that it's an adaptive build that can respond to a solid macro game by P. That's all I'm trying to bring to light.

The problem is that you care more about perceived respect than about objectively understanding the game.

On July 04 2011 13:26 SKaREO wrote:
I developed a build that beats Protoss 95% of the time and someone told me I was using Warden's build. Anyway, I had to come see this build and now I realize he was wrong, but not entirely.

I open cloak banshees, mainly because it counters every Protoss build that doesn't include a robo facility. Second, I build a Raven after the banshees to snipe their observer and start massing energy for PDDs. You wouldn't believe how effective mobile detection is in this match up, Protoss really can't play very well when they are blind, and it keeps them in their base in fear to move out because of the banshees+raven.

Now, while constantly building marines and Hellions early on, I will research Blue Flame and throw down a Ghost Academy. I'll add a Medivac in my composition for drops and to heal forces after engagements. After Blue Flame is completed, I swap the Factory on the reactor from Barracks and by now have 2 tech lab rax, 1 reactor factory, and 1 tech lab starport.

This is when I destroy the rocks and, using superior army composition, hold map control. Should have roughly 8 BFHellions, 16 Marines, 4 Marauders, 2 Ghosts, 1 Raven, 2 Banshees, 1 Medivac. Throw your 3rd up at the gold, build 4 more rax, 1 more factory, armory, another starport. If its collosi get mass vikings, and if its templars, get thors and more ghosts.

The blue flame hellions are the backbone of this strategy. Not only do they serve as phenomenal harassment tools, melting mineral lines during larger engagements while the opponent is distracted, but they also melt the three most deadly Protoss units to a Terran: Zealots, Sentries and High Templar. Not only the MASSIVE bonuses they get to damaging light units, their splash damage will not cause friendly fire!

I do not use tanks very often in this match up for that reason, and because Zealots cause tank fire to splash on your forces and they are immobile, therefore forcing your army to hold engagements instead of being able to easily retreat while psi storm is melting them. To counter Stalkers you have Marauders and PDDs.

That's my 2 cents.

On July 04 2011 13:53 naventus wrote:
When is your CC in that build? It feels like around 7-8m?

What happens against P builds that get exp at 5-6m, with obs in time for cloak?

And re: hellions, do people understand that a BF hellion needs to hit 2 light targets to breakeven with marine DPS? And you would need to hit 6 targets to breakeven against nonlight.

On July 04 2011 15:08 Zombo Joe wrote:



Marines die very quickly in engagements, hellions don't so they get in more damage over-all (vs light of course)

On July 05 2011 01:20 naventus wrote:
Have you ever tried any of your theorycraft at a high level? If hellions were superior to marines in a ground fight than they would actually be used in competitive since every T has a factory.