EPTHellion Tank is good in TvP, just the gas first is a gimmicky play.
EDIT: This would also die to a 4 marine Hellion push.
[G] TvT hellion tank (gas first banshee opening) - Page 3
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GinDo
3327 Posts
Hellion Tank is good in TvP, just the gas first is a gimmicky play. EDIT: This would also die to a 4 marine Hellion push. | ||
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deeshoo
United States319 Posts
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spunch
Sweden1 Post
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statikg
Canada930 Posts
17 depot 17 refinery Continue on with your build but you get more gas, on your second 50energy scan the enemy base, if he has a starport cancel your banshee swap back and make a dropship and start blue flame right away. If he doesnt have a starport, start cloaking. He is almost definitely doing some sort of fast expand or maybe an all-in, either way cloaked banshees will serve you well. After your first starport unit make a viking to defend against enemy banshees and put it off to the side of your base to try to intercept any hellion drops or at least see them coming so you can run scvs. I think this is better because if your enemy has a viking out when your banshee arrives (aka as I will) then your banshee does basically nothing and its wasted resources. PS gas first is not "gimmicky" reaper will never be there before you have 2 marines that can easily defend it and reaper first is a terrible opening that immediately signals infantry all in. | ||
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legend4411
Canada21 Posts
Could you post more replays? | ||
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Apollonius
70 Posts
On July 29 2011 00:45 statikg wrote: Heres a slight variation on your build that has been very strong for me and is just better IMO. 17 depot 17 refinery Continue on with your build but you get more gas, on your second 50energy scan the enemy base, if he has a starport cancel your banshee swap back and make a dropship and start blue flame right away. If he doesnt have a starport, start cloaking. He is almost definitely doing some sort of fast expand or maybe an all-in, either way cloaked banshees will serve you well. After your first starport unit make a viking to defend against enemy banshees and put it off to the side of your base to try to intercept any hellion drops or at least see them coming so you can run scvs. I think this is better because if your enemy has a viking out when your banshee arrives (aka as I will) then your banshee does basically nothing and its wasted resources. PS gas first is not "gimmicky" reaper will never be there before you have 2 marines that can easily defend it and reaper first is a terrible opening that immediately signals infantry all in. I was looking for a variation like this ^^. I always have trouble because I neglect cloak for my banshees, and when SP tech comes in, my banshee is quickly useless. This kind of differentiation is useful for me. Plus, if he has SP tech, he most likely will not be able to defend a BF hellion drop as well, and if he goes for banshee first (like us) the hellions will win. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10346 Posts
Also, thanks for sharing, I always had a bit of trouble at the beginning of the BO with the timing of the first factory, the OC, the depot, the marine, etc. xD | ||
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VanGarde
Sweden755 Posts
On July 02 2011 21:40 deeshoo wrote: From what I can tell by watching the GSL and from my own experiences of dealing with this on the ladder, this is a great step in the meta game for TvT (as opposed to the previously stale marine tank medivac that replaced marine tank viking), and as seen in Jinro vs asd, bio still remains viable although you'll need to begin mixing in some marauders. I personally still go bio heavy with tanks to control space, but maybe I'll start working in a reactored factory over a barracks in the future for that all too deadly hellion harass (Always making my 3rd cc a planetary now because of it )Are you kidding? This new style of tvt, which you unfortunately pretty much has to play now is a huge dumbing down of the matchup. If anything it is MORE inclinced to stalemates now because guess what now a good player can't actually flank spread and break tank lines anymore with bio/tank. Now you have two players with stale tank lines and hellions who can't actually kill anything but scv's which means that 100% of decision making is taken out. It is not like bio harass, or other drops where you can go for units, workers, snipe tech. Now it is just, kill workers. And then both players battle it out over how can kill 99% of the other players scv's first and then slow push for 50 minutes across the map with 3 tanks, turrets and a billion vikings. The turrets which also accomplishes needing no reaction skills or apm to deal with harass because you just overmake turrets and make yourself immune to harass. This new style is sadly the best one, and it has eliminated so much complexity and skill from the matchup. | ||
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LeoA
Canada108 Posts
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statikg
Canada930 Posts
On August 04 2011 12:23 VanGarde wrote: Are you kidding? This new style of tvt, which you unfortunately pretty much has to play now is a huge dumbing down of the matchup. If anything it is MORE inclinced to stalemates now because guess what now a good player can't actually flank spread and break tank lines anymore with bio/tank. Now you have two players with stale tank lines and hellions who can't actually kill anything but scv's which means that 100% of decision making is taken out. It is not like bio harass, or other drops where you can go for units, workers, snipe tech. Now it is just, kill workers. And then both players battle it out over how can kill 99% of the other players scv's first and then slow push for 50 minutes across the map with 3 tanks, turrets and a billion vikings. The turrets which also accomplishes needing no reaction skills or apm to deal with harass because you just overmake turrets and make yourself immune to harass. This new style is sadly the best one, and it has eliminated so much complexity and skill from the matchup. I don't agree at all, there is a ton of decision making to be made still, for example if you did what you are suggesting against me I would just cut vikings, make 1-2 thors and crush your tank line and you would lose instantly. TvT is still about harass/macro and if anything its even faster and more precise, better defence is also required. | ||
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Tonem
Australia91 Posts
I scouted it kind of late, but still managed to get two bunkers up, and pull scvs, didn't make much of a difference though. I was thinking canceling blue flame and getting seige/tanks right away? as well as continue marine production or try get some marauders? All I can really do is theory craft so I would love to know if you've had any experience vs the thor rush and if so can you provide tips/replays. It just seems to me as a blind hard counter atm. :\ | ||
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seefour
United Kingdom107 Posts
On August 21 2011 15:23 Tonem wrote: Hey mate I've been using this build for quite awhile now in TvT and had a LOT of success in my diamond league. Recently I suffered one of my first real loses with this build to a thor all in rush. Do you have any tips for holding this? I scouted it kind of late, but still managed to get two bunkers up, and pull scvs, didn't make much of a difference though. I was thinking canceling blue flame and getting seige/tanks right away? as well as continue marine production or try get some marauders? All I can really do is theory craft so I would love to know if you've had any experience vs the thor rush and if so can you provide tips/replays. It just seems to me as a blind hard counter atm. :\ You should be able to see this coming with your banshee. this build is nice also cause it doesnt necessitate the use of a scan when your in the dark. Its very easy to forget about scouting while microing the banshee but just remember to look back at the base to see what you actually saw. If you do see you should (as you said) cancel blue flame and go straight to seige mode. Marauders might not be a bad idea as well. The thing about that is that all you have to do is hold without loosing all your scvs and you win cause your second orbital is done. | ||
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saaaa
Germany419 Posts
I saw now Nada vs. Virus on Metalopolis but i can't find that Jinro uses this build against asd :/ Do you know in which matches this build has been used? That would be nice  | ||
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KirA_TheGreaT
France204 Posts
Vod is available at gomtv.net as it is the first match of the set. ( july or august code s ) | ||
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saaaa
Germany419 Posts
do you mean this match? http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors4/vod/65752 i couldnt find that bomber plays gas before | ||
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seefour
United Kingdom107 Posts
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tianGO
Argentina591 Posts
Are you still using this build? Can you please re upload the replays? Thanks. | ||
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kusu
Sweden440 Posts
i feel not so good. | ||
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thoradycus
Malaysia3262 Posts
12 gas 13 rax 16 fact 16 OB make rines port banshee CC add 2 facts win if terran goes for a early bio pish use banshee to pick at the army | ||
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jlai
Hong Kong63 Posts
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