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[G] Synystyr's TvZ 0/3 Hellion/Thor Build - Page 10

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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MERLIN.
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada546 Posts
June 29 2011 16:23 GMT
#181
for Ultra against thor, if you upgrade the 30 mm cannon for thor it roasts ultras... Literally decimates them, so maybe add that in, because its not an expensive upgrade especially late game and ur thors will toss them aside like fat zerglings if u have it.
"A bullet to the head will solve your problems."
Treehead
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
999 Posts
June 29 2011 17:01 GMT
#182
On June 30 2011 01:23 MERLIN. wrote:
for Ultra against thor, if you upgrade the 30 mm cannon for thor it roasts ultras... Literally decimates them, so maybe add that in, because its not an expensive upgrade especially late game and ur thors will toss them aside like fat zerglings if u have it.


Please reread the thread. This has already been discussed on one of the previous pages. The basic idea is that Thors do more damage when just auto-attacking, and there is some amount of wasted overkill damage if you use this and other units fire on your target. It just isn't that useful of an ability (certainly not compared to snipe) - that's why it isn't mentioned.

On June 10 2011 06:12 Synystyr wrote:

0-3 Thor vs a 6 armored Ultralisk still does more damage over 10 seconds auto attacking than 250mm Cannon does. It's absolutely useless in TvZ :[

aisight
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States145 Posts
June 29 2011 22:21 GMT
#183
Hi, I've added this build to the Liquipedia. I changed around some sentence structure to make it more consistent (mostly removing self-reference pronouns like "I" and "me") and sectioned it off according to how most builds on there go (which was a bit tricky since you listed three different build orders!).

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/0/3_Hellion/Thor_(vs._Zerg)
jlai
Profile Joined February 2011
Hong Kong63 Posts
July 04 2011 17:23 GMT
#184
On June 29 2011 09:19 Synystyr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 23 2011 23:43 Zavinout wrote:
Could you do this on scrap station too? Take the island as your third? or the blocked of expansion in the south?


I would try an expo to the south, but yeah its definitely viable on Scrap Station. I just hate that map so I have it thumbsed down xD

Show nested quote +
On June 27 2011 11:58 deathtrance wrote:
Thanks for the build Synystr - but one question

If your opponent is going pure mass roach (and reinforcing with like 30 at a time) would switching to tanks be a good idea? I mean, you're going to get 5 tanks out at a time from 5 facts, and marauders would only be out of 2rax, which takes forever. I mean, you're going to be on 3 bases, you're going to be able to afford the tank tech switch aren't you?


I suppose you could, but I avoid tanks simply because I prefer Thor/Marauder against Roaches. I haven't actually tried this though so I couldn't tell you...I don't see why not though.

Show nested quote +
On June 27 2011 12:43 micjmac wrote:
On June 20 2011 11:56 Synystyr wrote:
On June 20 2011 10:04 micjmac wrote:
Just curious what build you are using on open naturals if you haven't really heavily tested the 1OC expand build.


It's not that I haven't heavily tested it (It's the most powerful 2 base all-in I know of), I just don't have recent replays of it that I have saved. I do now and I'll get them up ASAP


Still waiting...


Agh sorry I've been tied up for a bit >_> Will be up by this weekend, promise!

Show nested quote +
On June 28 2011 13:56 jlai wrote:
Thanks Synystyr I have great success on using this build in map that i can wall off the choke easily. Do you have a replay on countering Ultralisk, lings,blings? i lost a few games when they managed to get out ultralisk. How should i micro my army against this?


Ultras need to be sniped and focused by Thors ASAP. They're a high priority target since they rip Thors up quite well. If you can get your Hellions in front of your Thors at that point, then you should be able to take care of them quite easily.

Against Bling/Ling, you need to micro your hellions so that they do not die to the initial baneling wave and then reposition them behind your Thors so they can attack the lings freely.


Thanks Synystyr,

After trying this build for 20-30 games, i have been using this build as my default build. just some questions in my head. i usually hot key all my thors and move my hellions/scvs to follow the one of the thors in the middle. if they go ling/bling/muta, i have high condifence that i would win.

1) How many SCvs should i produce before max? i run into a situation where i got too many SCVs in 3 bases and hence my army size is smaller. Also building Thors is just too slow that i can't afford to wait reinforcement to come.

2) Does it mean that we can now double upgrade attack/armor? saw that earlier in this post ppl're saying upgrades don't apply to NP from Infestors. if the other guy goes roach with upgrade i have a hard time to flight off.

3) There was a game where Zerg went bling/roach/infestors and he loaded up Blings in his overlords and drop on my hellions and marines. He pulled all his overlords on top of my thors so my thors auto attack the overlords. at the same time he used his infestor to NR my thors. Any better engagement ideas on this?

Great build! Cheers.
Synystyr
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1446 Posts
July 07 2011 04:22 GMT
#185
On June 30 2011 07:21 aisight wrote:
Hi, I've added this build to the Liquipedia. I changed around some sentence structure to make it more consistent (mostly removing self-reference pronouns like "I" and "me") and sectioned it off according to how most builds on there go (which was a bit tricky since you listed three different build orders!).

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/0/3_Hellion/Thor_(vs._Zerg)


You're awesome Thank you SO much!


On July 05 2011 02:23 jlai wrote:

Thanks Synystyr,

After trying this build for 20-30 games, i have been using this build as my default build. just some questions in my head. i usually hot key all my thors and move my hellions/scvs to follow the one of the thors in the middle. if they go ling/bling/muta, i have high condifence that i would win.

1) How many SCvs should i produce before max? i run into a situation where i got too many SCVs in 3 bases and hence my army size is smaller. Also building Thors is just too slow that i can't afford to wait reinforcement to come.

2) Does it mean that we can now double upgrade attack/armor? saw that earlier in this post ppl're saying upgrades don't apply to NP from Infestors. if the other guy goes roach with upgrade i have a hard time to flight off.

3) There was a game where Zerg went bling/roach/infestors and he loaded up Blings in his overlords and drop on my hellions and marines. He pulled all his overlords on top of my thors so my thors auto attack the overlords. at the same time he used his infestor to NR my thors. Any better engagement ideas on this?

Great build! Cheers.


1. I would stop between 60-70 and let the MULEs take over. At that point, you should have a 4th going up and easily keep your mining bases saturated without having an overwhelming amount of workers.

The key to Thor reinforcements are to have them come in waves. You have 5 factories and should try your best to have all your Thors build at the same time. This makes your reinforcing wave slow, but extremely powerful.

2. You can if you'd like, but be aware the adding another Armory + another upgrade is more expensive than it sounds. Armor upgrades should still be the top priority.

3. Micro your hellions away from the overlords and do whatever it takes to make sure they don't die. You should have Ghosts in your composition so be sure to snipe the Infestors ASAP. Thors should not be attacking the overlords...they have no attack priority if anything else is attacking the Thors. Otherwise, just spread your army as much as possible and hope for the best xD.
Sky Terran TvP V2.0: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355839
awakenx
Profile Joined May 2011
United States341 Posts
July 07 2011 05:03 GMT
#186
Hm, I wonder if there is any way to sort of integrate some early tank push; after all, you have quite a few marines at the start, unless you really want to get thors damn fast.

WorstMicroNA
Applesmack
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada680 Posts
July 15 2011 04:46 GMT
#187
Guys does anyone have a replay of them doing the single expand build? Do you think its better to stick with this build on maps you can't double expand (I really like this build) or should I just stick with siege tank rine on those maps?
shr0ud
Profile Joined April 2011
Finland222 Posts
July 18 2011 10:21 GMT
#188
Not sure if this has been asked yet, but could this work as a transition from standard 2 rax pressure and maybe get medivacs for bf hellion drops while turtling for the doom push?
getpicture
Profile Joined January 2011
141 Posts
July 18 2011 10:59 GMT
#189
2 rax doesn't transition well. on small maps you can't transition to starport play that quick you'll lose to econ baneling all in, see MVP vs dimaga, or bomber vs kyrix. 2 rax is always followed by a CC, and then choice of 2 more rax or double gas + bunkers.

can't believe you still don't understand timings.
DisaFear
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia4074 Posts
July 18 2011 11:35 GMT
#190
Defs gonna try this, I have a hard time with TvZ
And your 4 port worked wonders
How devious | http://anartisticanswer.blogspot.com.au/
shr0ud
Profile Joined April 2011
Finland222 Posts
July 18 2011 11:46 GMT
#191
On July 18 2011 19:59 getpicture wrote:
2 rax doesn't transition well. on small maps you can't transition to starport play that quick you'll lose to econ baneling all in, see MVP vs dimaga, or bomber vs kyrix. 2 rax is always followed by a CC, and then choice of 2 more rax or double gas + bunkers.

can't believe you still don't understand timings.

Might be viable on Shakuras where you can get the fast 3 rax wall-in with bunkers covering? Hard to see econ baneling bust dealing with that. Also, the starport doesn't have to come out immediately you have the factory down, maybe when you already have pumped out a sizable army and just waiting for the upgrades to finish?
Synystyr
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1446 Posts
July 29 2011 07:13 GMT
#192
Okay, it's been a little while but I have a replay for the 2 Base All-in variation of this build. It's not perfect and it's also on one of the newer maps Abyssal Caverns. It works absolute wonders here with the small chokes, easy to wall off natural and short rush distances.

This was my 2nd game in over a month or so, so it may not be the best but you should get the general gist of it. Very powerful stuff here. Enjoy guys!

http://www.mediafire.com/?z5s47xoo5u378su
Sky Terran TvP V2.0: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355839
Synystyr
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1446 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-09 19:42:55
September 09 2011 19:42 GMT
#193
Let's talk about Patch 1.4 and the infestor change.

NP is being nerfed so that massive units cannot be NPed. This means that Thors are immune!! This means that the only viable counter Zerg has against this army composition is mass Roach into Brood Lord. This simply means that you should be completely safe initiating your push with a Thor/Hellion/Marauder composition. This will simply just stomp everything on Lair tech and a addition of ghosts when you spot Hive Tech should seal the deal.

I'm excited :D
Sky Terran TvP V2.0: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355839
Cosmology
Profile Joined September 2011
Canada360 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-09 19:56:54
September 09 2011 19:56 GMT
#194
So umm...I have a feeling I will be facing this style a lot on ladder after the ptr goes through (if it does) and was wondering, how do you not...die?
Somewhere, something amazing is waiting to be known.
Deleted User 109835
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
629 Posts
September 09 2011 20:58 GMT
#195
--- Nuked ---
101toss
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
3232 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-10 20:39:12
September 10 2011 20:37 GMT
#196
If the np nerf goes through, should we seek to upgrade weapons, seeing as that the point not to upgrade was to reduce np'd Thor damage?

It seems getting +4/+8 air damage against blords/mutas per upgrade is very powerful, as well as hellion splash amplifying in power as well
Math doesn't kill champions and neither do wards
Synystyr
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1446 Posts
September 10 2011 20:48 GMT
#197
On September 10 2011 04:56 Cosmology wrote:
So umm...I have a feeling I will be facing this style a lot on ladder after the ptr goes through (if it does) and was wondering, how do you not...die?


Right now, it seems to me like there are two options. Mass mass banelings and Roach/Infestor.

The mass baneling strategy is a little more gimmicky but it's simply getting enough banelings out to completely roll over the deathball as cost effectively as possible. Without tanks, there's really no way to take down banelings before they connect. Follow up with mass lings should seal the deal.

Roach/Infestor would rely heavily on fungal to fight portions of the death ball at a time while slowly killing off hellions. If you are able to kill all the hellions, ling reinforcements should be able to clean up the army. This would work in the current patch as well, but it's going to be a lot harder post 1.4 because of the damage nerf.
On September 11 2011 05:37 101toss wrote:
If the np nerf goes through, should we seek to upgrade weapons, seeing as that the point not to upgrade was to reduce np'd Thor damage?

It seems getting +4/+8 air damage against blords/mutas per upgrade is very powerful, as well as hellion splash amplifying in power as well


Yeah I see no reason why not to get a second armory for attack upgrades now. It especially helps against Brood Lords. Just be sure to prioritize armor first still.
Sky Terran TvP V2.0: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355839
NeonFox
Profile Joined January 2011
2373 Posts
September 10 2011 21:58 GMT
#198
This kind of build is just disgusting to go against if the NP nerf makes it through, if you rush for broodlords a smart terran will just push before you get them out.
Synystyr
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1446 Posts
September 16 2011 03:57 GMT
#199
So the NP nerf got changed from being unable to NP massive units to the nerfing the range of NP from 9 to 7. This is still good news for us. Ghosts should have zero problems sniping off infestors now as they won't have to run into the front lines in order to get into range. This means less ghost deaths and more for when Brood Lords arrive. I think this style will start to persist more and be reeeeally powerful :D
Sky Terran TvP V2.0: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355839
xTrim
Profile Joined April 2011
472 Posts
September 24 2011 22:17 GMT
#200
wouldnt hydra infestor beat this?? just a thought....
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